Things more complex than Pantenaude’s playcalling

Techbert said:
Sean Bedford, who does color commentary of GT games and was an offensive player under CPJ, says that it takes 2 or 3 years to learn the Patenaude offense. This directly contradicts those who believe the current offense is simple. More likely, we watched players new to a complex offense execute the small part of the offense they were capable of handling, and they did so against perhaps the top defense in the land.

So given a choice between following the lead of frustrated fans lashing out at a convenient scapegoat, some of which have hidden agenda, as opposed to people who actually played football under multiple offensive schemes, I choose to listen to the people who know football.

The test will be if the offense improves and diversifies as the year goes on. This is measurable and a lot cleaner than Red Queen Off With Their Heads knee-jerk reactions as a basis of firing coaches.
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While I don’t disagree with your point, but if you can’t get two yards in four tries, that is pathetic
 
InDoddwetrust said:
While I don’t disagree with your point, but if you can’t get two yards in four tries, that is pathetic
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Again...University of Alabama says hello. Clemson stopped them four times and all they had to get was one yard. You really going to make the argument we have more talent on offense than Bama did in the national championship game?
 
Techbert said:
Sean Bedford, who does color commentary of GT games and was an offensive player under CPJ, says that it takes 2 or 3 years to learn the Patenaude offense. This directly contradicts those who believe the current offense is simple. More likely, we watched players new to a complex offense execute the small part of the offense they were capable of handling, and they did so against perhaps the top defense in the land.

So given a choice between following the lead of frustrated fans lashing out at a convenient scapegoat, some of which have hidden agenda, as opposed to people who actually played football under multiple offensive schemes, I choose to listen to the people who know football.

The test will be if the offense improves and diversifies as the year goes on. This is measurable and a lot cleaner than Red Queen Off With Their Heads knee-jerk reactions as a basis of firing coaches.
Click to expand...


2 to 3 years to learn an offense? Maybe we should run Clemson's offense, since it only took Lawrence a few games to figure it out.
 
coit said:
2 to 3 years to learn an offense? Maybe we should run Clemson's offense, since it only took Lawrence a few games to figure it out.
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Well he did have an entrenched complement of able bodied support staff around him also, so there is that.
 
smokey_wasp said:
Tell me your brilliant play that would have worked against that defense wuth basically no QB. Lets hear it, genius.
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Okay, listen up.
We need five wide receivers.

We'll run the Oop-de-oop.

Four receivers stacked left.

Brown right. We overload their left.

They'll cover Brown one-on-one.

No huddles. We'll call the plays from the line. They'll never know what hit them.
 
Techbert said:
Sean Bedford, who does color commentary of GT games and was an offensive player under CPJ, says that it takes 2 or 3 years to learn the Patenaude offense. This directly contradicts those who believe the current offense is simple. More likely, we watched players new to a complex offense execute the small part of the offense they were capable of handling, and they did so against perhaps the top defense in the land.

So given a choice between following the lead of frustrated fans lashing out at a convenient scapegoat, some of which have hidden agenda, as opposed to people who actually played football under multiple offensive schemes, I choose to listen to the people who know football.

The test will be if the offense improves and diversifies as the year goes on. This is measurable and a lot cleaner than Red Queen Off With Their Heads knee-jerk reactions as a basis of firing coaches.
Click to expand...

So Temple never executed his O?
 
Running 4 QB Option Keepers or B-Back dives would've gotten stuffed too. See 2018, 17, 16, 15, etc
 
Techbert said:
Sean Bedford, who does color commentary of GT games and was an offensive player under CPJ, says that it takes 2 or 3 years to learn the Patenaude offense. This directly contradicts those who believe the current offense is simple. More likely, we watched players new to a complex offense execute the small part of the offense they were capable of handling, and they did so against perhaps the top defense in the land.

So given a choice between following the lead of frustrated fans lashing out at a convenient scapegoat, some of which have hidden agenda, as opposed to people who actually played football under multiple offensive schemes, I choose to listen to the people who know football.

The test will be if the offense improves and diversifies as the year goes on. This is measurable and a lot cleaner than Red Queen Off With Their Heads knee-jerk reactions as a basis of firing coaches.
Click to expand...
Now, now, you know all the experts on here aren't going to believe anything someone as ignorant about college football as Sean Bedford says. They all know better and it's simple.
 
ncjacket said:
Now, now, you know all the experts on here aren't going to believe anything someone as ignorant about college football as Sean Bedford says. They all know better and it's simple.
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Oh yeah. Well we all stayed at a holiday inn express last night so we are more than qualified.
 
coit said:
2 to 3 years to learn an offense? Maybe we should run Clemson's offense, since it only took Lawrence a few games to figure it out.
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If you have a high enough talent level, and are surrounded by veteran players with athletic ability, you can run a lot of offense as a freshman. Lawrence also played for a HS coach with a similar scheme, good enough to go 67-4 as a coach. So he wasn't exactly dumped onto the practice field after running an offense with opposite principles.

We also expect Trevor Lawrence to improve each year he is at Clemson, as he learns more and more about their offense.
 
Techbert said:
Sean Bedford, who does color commentary of GT games and was an offensive player under CPJ, says that it takes 2 or 3 years to learn the Patenaude offense. This directly contradicts those who believe the current offense is simple. More likely, we watched players new to a complex offense execute the small part of the offense they were capable of handling, and they did so against perhaps the top defense in the land.

So given a choice between following the lead of frustrated fans lashing out at a convenient scapegoat, some of which have hidden agenda, as opposed to people who actually played football under multiple offensive schemes, I choose to listen to the people who know football.

The test will be if the offense improves and diversifies as the year goes on. This is measurable and a lot cleaner than Red Queen Off With Their Heads knee-jerk reactions as a basis of firing coaches.
Click to expand...
Uhhh...is that just from the start or is every player going to need 2 or 3 years before they understand and can execute the offense? IOW, will the QB recruits in 2020 and 2021 not be serviceable until 2022 or 2023 or 2024?
 
oldgold68 said:
Uhhh...is that just from the start or is every player going to need 2 or 3 years before they understand and can execute the offense? IOW, will the QB recruits in 2020 and 2021 not be serviceable until 2022 or 2023 or 2024?
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Think about it. The numbers are not precise but the math is.

Think about everyone starting fresh together. The o-line won't be smooth, so the qb will be rushed for time. The wr won't be smooth running their routes, so the qb needs more recognition time while in the pocket. The rb's are new to it, so pass pro is not going to be second nature to them. The te... the te will be new to all the quarterbacks. Now increase the tempo from practice to full speed game day with the top college team in the country. Everything is faster for everyone.

Let's say there are 20 plays you want to run. Let's say your quarterback can run 12 of them with confidence as a freshman. The wr can effectively run 12 of them, but not all the same 12 as the qb. The ol and backs can block for 12 of them, but not the same 12. And so on. So your entire team can run maybe 4, and those 4 will look a lot like what they did last year, cuz muscle memory. The team can run 4 to 8 more with very limited success.

Gosh. That sounds exactly like what we saw Thursday. And no one on the field is expert enough to make subtle pre-snap corrections or point out defensive adjustments to the new players.

Now imagine a veteran ol, wr, etc. with a new quarterback. He can still run 12 of 20 plays with confidence, but the juniors and seniors on the team can run 20, and the sophs can run 16, and so on. That means the new quarterback can effectively run 11 or 12 plays of the 20, not 4 or so. And as the quarterback grows in the system, so does his repertoire. He can correct his rb's on where to stand, what a lineman needs to see on his blocking assignment, and so on.

You probably wonder why everyone can't learn 20 plays in a spring and a fall practice. Well, they can learn the basics. Stand here. Look at one guy for a read. Move like this on the snap. They can do that for all the plays. But they can't learn the subtleties without time, without real world experience. So we run one pass pro. What does that mean if the LDE drops into coverage? What should the quarterback expect if the RDE and RDT run a stunt? Which stunt? The RB wants to chip and then go into a pattern. How much of a chip? The blitzing linebacker is not exactly where he would be in practice, a little bit faster or looping a little bit more or less in his path.

So the more experience a whole team has in an offense the better it can work together. The more experience an individual player has in a system the better he can play in the offense. It all works together.

And the more the people around you know, the quicker you can learn something.

One of the interesting things about college football is that you never see the complete playbook. You cannot run a unit with 11 seniors. It just does not happen. So every coach is adjusting what they do based on their talent and experience level available. It is dynamic and one of the things that make college football a great game.

What happens if you run 11 freshmen out on the field against the #1 team in the country? We essentially found out. If the kids are good enough, motivated enough, and durable enough, they can with good coaching stay within 30-something points of a dynastic team.
 
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Techbert said:
Think about it. The numbers are not precise but the math is.

Think about everyone starting fresh together. The o-line won't be smooth, so the qb will be rushed for time. The wr won't be smooth running their routes, so the qb needs more recognition time while in the pocket. The rb's are new to it, so pass pro is not going to be second nature to them. The te... the te will be new to all the quarterbacks. Now increase the tempo from practice to full speed game day with the top college team in the country. Everything is faster for everyone.

Let's say there are 20 plays you want to run. Let's say your quarterback can run 12 of them with confidence as a freshman. The wr can effectively run 12 of them, but not all the same 12 as the qb. The ol and backs can block for 12 of them, but not the same 12. And so on. So your entire team can run maybe 4, and those 4 will look a lot like what they did last year, cuz muscle memory. The team can run 4 to 8 more with very limited success.

Gosh. That sounds exactly like what we saw Thursday. And no one on the field is expert enough to make subtle pre-snap corrections or point out defensive adjustments to the new players.

Now imagine a veteran ol, wr, etc. with a new quarterback. He can still run 12 of 20 plays with confidence, but the juniors and seniors on the team can run 20, and the sophs can run 16, and so on. That means the new quarterback can effectively run 11 or 12 plays of the 20, not 4 or so. And as the quarterback grows in the system, so does his repertoire. He can correct his rb's on where to stand, what a lineman needs to see on his blocking assignment, and so on.

You probably wonder why everyone can't learn 20 plays in a spring and a fall practice. Well, they can learn the basics. Stand here. Look at one guy for a read. Move like this on the snap. They can do that for all the plays. But they can't learn the subtleties without time, without real world experience. So we run one pass pro. What does that mean if the LDE drops into coverage? What should the quarterback expect if the RDE and RDT run a stunt? Which stunt? The RB wants to chip and then go into a pattern. How much of a chip? The blitzing linebacker is not exactly where he would be in practice, a little bit faster or looping a little bit more or less in his path.

So the more experience a whole team has in an offense the better it can work together. The more experience an individual player has in a system the better he can play in the offense. It all works together.

And the more the people around you know, the quicker you can learn something.

One of the interesting things about college football is that you never see the complete playbook. You cannot run a unit with 11 seniors. It just does not happen. So every coach is adjusting what they do based on their talent and experience level available. It is dynamic and one of the things that make college football a great game.

What happens if you run 11 freshmen out on the field against the #1 team in the country? We essentially found out. If the kids are good enough, motivated enough, and committed enough, they can with good coaching stay within 30-something points of a dynastic team.
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All excellent points.

In my limited football playing experience, my coach tried to throw the whole play book at everybody, every year. He didn't have the luxury of teaching part of the book in year 1, more in year 2, etc. He did so with mixed results on the field. In the end, our results were much more dependent on how good our individual skills were versus our opponents individual skills (we played the same 10 teams every year, so there was no SOS impact).

In my experience, it really was more Jimmys and Joes than X's and O's.
 
gtchief said:
Homophones are hard.
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Who are you calling a homophone?!?

iu
 
beej67 said:
We've always had players the level of Temple. Now we have coaches to compliment their skill set.

I'll just stay over here in the corner with my popcorn.
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Well, you are wrong. Our current roster is more on the level of Georgia Southern before it moved up to Bowl division.
 
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