This is Football? (Officiating)

G

GoldT

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I don't expect the officials to be perfect, and I don't usually get as upset as some of you guys about the officiating, but we have been hit twice now this year for late hit/out of bounds where the runner wasn't even knocked off his feet! Happened in the Va. Tech game and it hurt. Happened in the Duke game, and it didn't. This is football, not doll houses. You just can't expect those guys to go 100 miles per hour and then stop on a dime. That kind of penalty needs to be enforced to prevent someone from being injured...again, botht times we got the penalty, the runner wasn't even knocked down!!

Go Jackets!!

GoldT
 
Deserved it yesterday. It was about as late as you can get. I knew it would be flagged when he did it.
 
The Ravens got called today for Suggs hitting the QB in the head. Personal foul, totally changed the game, Ravens lost. He was getting to the quarterback and jumped up and forward to block the pass when he got hit and his follow through barely hit the QB in the face. It was simply a ridiculous call by the refs.

My two Fall teams have now lost three games and all three had BS personal foul calls in the 4th quarter that changed the game.
 
It doesn't matter if you knock the guy off his feet or not, you can't hit late out of bounds. That should always be a penalty, there is no reason for it...all it can possibly do is instigate a fight and possibly cause an injury because players let up since the play is over.

Not a comment on any specific call, just the notion that it should only apply if the hit is of a certain intensity. I know there's a lot of controversy about the helmet-to-helmet stuff, but the late hit out of bounds calls are usually pretty clear cut.
 
GoldT said:
I don't expect the officials to be perfect, and I don't usually get as upset as some of you guys about the officiating, but we have been hit twice now this year for late hit/out of bounds where the runner wasn't even knocked off his feet! Happened in the Va. Tech game and it hurt. Happened in the Duke game, and it didn't. This is football, not doll houses. You just can't expect those guys to go 100 miles per hour and then stop on a dime. That kind of penalty needs to be enforced to prevent someone from being injured...again, botht times we got the penalty, the runner wasn't even knocked down!!

Go Jackets!!

GoldT
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I don't get it. Hits out of bounds have been a penalty for as long as I can remember. Nothing in the rule says anything about how hard. Hits to the head are a more recent rule, but again, there's nothing in the rule about having to knock anyone down.
 
gsu_paintballer said:
Deserved it yesterday. It was about as late as you can get. I knew it would be flagged when he did it.
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I think you guys are wrong. Watching it on the dvr, the back was running up he sidelines. He was even lowering his sholder to make contact with the defenders. I'm not sure the return man knew he was OOB. He didn't veer at a strong angle out, he was barely out, and still running vertical. If you expect the defender to look down to check if he's OOB, next time the guy will run past him when he is in bounds.

The refs have to give some leeway.
 
BeerNutts said:
I think you guys are wrong. Watching it on the dvr, the back was running up he sidelines. He was even lowering his sholder to make contact with the defenders. I'm not sure the return man knew he was OOB. He didn't veer at a strong angle out, he was barely out, and still running vertical. If you expect the defender to look down to check if he's OOB, next time the guy will run past him when he is in bounds.

The refs have to give some leeway.
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Did the whistle blow?
 
Football needs to put in a one foot or yard deep area next to the out of bounds line. Players running down the sidelines are just too difficult to tell when they are in or out. So put in a one foot or one yard zone where the player can still be hit. Outside the one foot however and you get a penalty. The rule/play is currently too difficult to get right as is currently.
 
BeerNutts said:
I think you guys are wrong. Watching it on the dvr, the back was running up he sidelines. He was even lowering his sholder to make contact with the defenders. I'm not sure the return man knew he was OOB. He didn't veer at a strong angle out, he was barely out, and still running vertical. If you expect the defender to look down to check if he's OOB, next time the guy will run past him when he is in bounds.

The refs have to give some leeway.
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The point is it doesn't matter whether you know you're out of bounds or not, it's simply whether you are. If the runner if going out, they give you leeway. But if he is, they're supposed to throw the flag.
 
midatlantech said:
Football needs to put in a one foot or yard deep area next to the out of bounds line. Players running down the sidelines are just too difficult to tell when they are in or out. So put in a one foot or one yard zone where the player can still be hit. Outside the one foot however and you get a penalty. The rule/play is currently too difficult to get right as is currently.
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I probably didn't phrase my question/frustration correctly. As stated in some posts, if you hit out of bounds, then you deserve a flag. But obviously, there gets to be some judgement come into play, because even among us we have some disagreement about whether the players in question were really OOB. Refs use judgement all the time, so I understand we won't get every close play. The only reason I brought up the fact that neither guy was even knocked down was that to suggest/ask if that could possibly be used as a factor in the "judgement"? I like MidAtlanTech's idea of a zone, but I guess that would even become a judgement as to which zone the runner was in. Another factor is the whistle? Can you get a penalty for obviously hitting OOB if the whistle hasn't been blown? I don't know that answer...

Go Jackets!!'

GoldT
 
What is all this bull crap? Think what you want about the hit against VT (I think it was borderline), but the call against Duke was clear. I was immediately pissed that our guy hit the Duke player OOB. Cut and dry, that was a late hit.
 
For everyone talking about momentum going out of bounds, usually the criterion used to determine the call is if the player starts a new hitting motion out of bounds. For example, if you jump on a guy in bounds and ride him down out of bounds, that's not a penalty. If, however, you give a little tug or spin at the end of that, that is a penalty, because it's a conscious decision to hit the player harder after the play is over. The refs are usually pretty good at calling it.
 
gth816f said:
For everyone talking about momentum going out of bounds, usually the criterion used to determine the call is if the player starts a new hitting motion out of bounds. For example, if you jump on a guy in bounds and ride him down out of bounds, that's not a penalty. If, however, you give a little tug or spin at the end of that, that is a penalty, because it's a conscious decision to hit the player harder after the play is over. The refs are usually pretty good at calling it.
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The only problem i've seen is the guys who tightrope then cut out when it is hard for the tackler to let up. If the guy lets up they sneak by.

The line should be a foot or more wide. Better for peripheral vision for the defender anyway but I say if the guy is still in the stripe he's still fair game. That way if a guy wants to avoid the hit he needs to get out with a purpose.
 
GTCrew said:
The only problem i've seen is the guys who tightrope then cut out when it is hard for the tackler to let up. If the guy lets up they sneak by.

The line should be a foot or more wide. Better for peripheral vision for the defender anyway but I say if the guy is still in the stripe he's still fair game. That way if a guy wants to avoid the hit he needs to get out with a purpose.
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Exactly, my 1 foot zone would allow defenders to charge to the sideline with full intent to do their job. The Out of Bounds line, the "gray" area, is the problem. Make a small section "gray" and a lot of these bs calls go away. It would be better for the game.
 
No offense, but I think you guys are making too much of this. There just aren't that many calls involved and typically there is no real argument about it. If the guy is out, don't hit him. Seems pretty simple.
 
midatlantech said:
Exactly, my 1 foot zone would allow defenders to charge to the sideline with full intent to do their job. The Out of Bounds line, the "gray" area, is the problem. Make a small section "gray" and a lot of these bs calls go away. It would be better for the game.
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Wouldn't that cause everyone to just hit everyone in that gray area, effectively extending the play to the edge of it? No one is going to pass up on a chance for a legal hit in football...that's just not the way the game is played. You don't see linemen pulling up on a qb when they see the ball is going to be released a split second before they get there.

The majority of the guys who get the penalty just don't care in the heat of the moment. So it seems to me you'd have the same problem, except there would be multiple hits after every play going out of bounds, all in the one foot line, and all unnecessary since it none of them affect the play.

Also, I agree with ncjacket.
 
Hmmm. From my perspective, I thought the guy was clearly still in bounds when he got hit. That being said, I probably have the worst perspective in BDS from the front row of the lower North.
 
ncjacket said:
No offense, but I think you guys are making too much of this. There just aren't that many calls involved and typically there is no real argument about it. If the guy is out, don't hit him. Seems pretty simple.
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That's the problem. How are the players supposed to know he's out? His foot hit the line, and be OOB, but he continues to run like he's in bounds. Does the defender know he went out of bounds? Should he stop playing because he thought he might have been OOB?

I've been in this situation as a defensive player. A guy is running down the sidelines, the last you you want to do is watch his feet to see if he's stepping OOB. the second your eyes leave the ballcarriers head/waist, that guy cuts inside and burns you.

The refs need to allow leeway. There's no cut and dry yes or no here. It's a difficult position for defenders, and if I were a coach, I'd opt to assume h'es in bounds until it's obvious he isn't.
 
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