Tony Barnhart comment on recruiting

71YellowJacket

71YellowJacket

Damn Good Rat
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I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned his column in today's AJC, to the effect the Reggie Ball accepted the ship to Tech on the basis of BOB being around.

Those of you that are fans of BOB will point to this and say, see I told you he was a great loss to Tech and Maryland's gain and it’s a strong point, at least about BOB as a recruiter.

Another take might be did someone representing Tech pull the wool of young Mr. Bell's eyes, hiding BOB's imminent departure until the ink was dry on his LOI.

Who is to know, but the timing certainly makes me wonder...
 
Originally posted by 71Bee:
I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned his column in today's AJC, to the effect the Reggie Ball accepted the ship to Tech on the basis of BOB being around.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">It sounds to me like BO'B's departure doesn't make any difference to Reggie. Surely no kid is so naive as to think a coach might not change jobs.

link to story
 
Originally posted by bellyseries:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Originally posted by 71Bee:
I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned his column in today's AJC, to the effect the Reggie Ball accepted the ship to Tech on the basis of BOB being around.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">It sounds to me like BO'B's departure doesn't make any difference to Reggie. Surely no kid is so naive as to think a coach might not change jobs.

link to story</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Yeah, Reggie mentioned he met O'Brien on his official visit. Reggie is excited about coming to GT. I don't think it makes a hill of beans much to Reggie Ball at all from what the article said. Reggie has always come across as a mature young man.
 
Originally posted by tommie:
Did he not say he is just ready to go to tech?
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Sounds like he's ready to me!
 
The recruits are the ones that get the shaft. The coaches are free to move but once the players sign on the dotted line they are stuck.

Just imagine how all the players that signed to play with Dennis Erickson and then almost immediately he jumps to the 49'ers. He claimed that he had not personally talked to the 49'ers before signing day ...but apparently his lawyer had been.

The recruits get a raw deal on this as far as I am concerned.
 
Here is the quote concerning Reggie Ball:

"Reggie Ball, one of the South's best quarterbacks, signed with Georgia Tech, where he was planning to work with Bill O'Brien, the Yellow Jackets' offensive coordinator. About 48 hours later, O'Brien left Tech and took a job at Maryland. Ball said he was surprised.

OK guys, you just signed a contract for cruise to New Zealand. The brochures all showed a 767 taking you there and back. The salesman referred to the new jet numerous times in the pitch. Afterwards, the 767 is replaced with a surplus DC 9. You would naturally be surprised; likely pissed off.

But if you are a kid who has signed a binding LOI you are stuck and you probably don't want to say anything more the "surprised" because you know you can't do anything about it now.

IF we knew BOB would be leaving after Feb 5, but we didn't say anything to the kids we were recruiting, that is deceitful and dishonorable. If we didn’t know BOB would be leaving 48 hours after signing day, how lucky we are!

But hey, winning on the field and in recruiting is the only thing that matters (to paraphrase Vince Lombardi); right? Well, those were paid athletes not kids. Besides, everyone does it, and the kids all know it’s the school not the staff they are signing up with, right?

Bellyseries, I suggest we all need more classes on the morality of right and wrong vs. relativism.

GTTerrific:
It sounds to me like BO'B's departure doesn't make any difference to Reggie. Surely no kid is so naive as to think a coach might not change jobs.

Perhaps law_bee and enlighten us on the nuances of law vs. morality, but there is a huge difference in knowing changes may occur in the coaching staff and hiding known changes that will occur.
 
I have not seen a "letter of intent", however I imagine it states an intention to play for GT not an intention to play for GT coordinated by BO'B.

Oregon St. is a different matter because you are losing a HEAD COACH.

Burnhardt is reaching here. Is his point that kids do not want to play for a TENURED NFL OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR?

Maybe the kids could go to Ga South then they would have the opportunity to play for a Div 1 AA coordinator.

This is further evidence of the IDIOTS AT THE AJC.
 
71Bee I don't understand your point. Are you saying we knew BOB was leaving and hid the info from recruits? or are you saying we didn't know? or are you just thinking out loud? If you are just using this example as a stepping stone to bring up the morals of recruiting fine. But it sounds like you are making a case against our staff.

Why is it we can't accept what our coaches say? Both BOB and Chan have said 1) it was BOB's idea and 2) Chan didn't know he planned to leave. It's bad enough that sportswriters always choose to spin whatever they hear to fit their story. Why do we do it to our own? And we wonder why our coaching staff is less than enthusiastic about talking to the media?
 
Originally posted by law_bee:
I have not seen a "letter of intent", however I imagine it states an intention to play for GT not an intention to play for GT coordinated by BO'B.
[71Bee:isn't a contract not only the written document but includes any verbal promises & agreements entered into by both parties?]

Oregon St. is a different matter because you are losing a HEAD COACH.

{71Bee: why is it different because its the Head coach, assistant coaches are not legally speaking for the school they represent?]

Burnhardt is reaching here. Is his point that kids do not want to play for a TENURED NFL OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR?
[71Bee: say what?? See above questions]

Maybe the kids could go to Ga South then they would have the opportunity to play for a Div 1 AA coordinator.

[71Bee: lost me here law_bee....]

This is further evidence of the IDIOTS AT THE AJC.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Thanks for clearing the air on this one law_bee. Your points about GA South, the idiots at AJC, and a tenured NFL coordinator really stand out for their revelance.

Gee I thought (silly me) that his point was there were promises verbal and written, that came with the offer from Oregon State and perhaps there were known changes in the agreement/promise that were known beforehand were going to change and these known changes were deliberity hidden from the kids that were recruited.

But I'm not a lawyer, so I give!

God help the kids, I believe we and the NCAA have them totally outgunned.
 
Originally posted by ncjacket:
71Bee I don't understand your point. Are you saying we knew BOB was leaving and hid the info from recruits? or are you saying we didn't know? or are you just thinking out loud? If you are just using this example as a stepping stone to bring up the morals of recruiting fine. But it sounds like you are making a case against our staff.

Why is it we can't accept what our coaches say? Both BOB and Chan have said 1) it was BOB's idea and 2) Chan didn't know he planned to leave. It's bad enough that sportswriters always choose to spin whatever they hear to fit their story. Why do we do it to our own? And we wonder why our coaching staff is less than enthusiastic about talking to the media?
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">ncjacket:

Sorry, I should have replied to your comment first. Of course I don't know what happened, hence the emphasis on "IF" in my post. But the timing was astoundingly lucky for us wasn't it?

And yes, my comments were intended only as a stepping stone on the morals of recruiting, and my hope that, despite the enormous pressures that come to bear, those that represent Tech hold themselves to the highest standards of morality; which may bear no relationship to legality.
 
Has anyone considered the fact that both BOB and CG was telling the truth and that the changes in the staff was mandated by the powers that be. I find it interesting that the two staff changes that we are aware of all came shortly after the Athletic Board met and they directed Braine to write the famous letter to all the Tech supporters. I don't know anything official but it makes more sense to me to take the coaches at their word and assume that circumstances beyond their control has brought about these changes. I have heard rumors that the turnover in coaching personnel is not over. But we all know the value of rumors.
 
71bee, Don't know if you were quoting me in the bold after my name there. That was our friend Belly's words. I do agree with him though.

Your quote at the top of your statement is Barnyard's take using Reggie Ball as a poor example to make his point in my opinion.

My speculation from speaking to Coach O'Brien on signing day is that the deal with Maryland had not come up yet. Believe that was a quick deal after signing day was over due partly because of problem Maryland and Fridge had with an assistant giving $300(?) to a recruit. Coach O'Brien decided going to Maryland was the best for him. I don't have a problem with that. Don't feel Reggie Ball does either. In this situation I don't see anything unethical at all.

As Lawbee has point out the O'Brien situation and one with Erickson are completely different.
 
Originally posted by GTTerrific:

My speculation from speaking to Coach O'Brien on signing day is that the deal with Maryland had not come up yet. Believe that was a quick deal after signing day was over due partly because of problem Maryland and Fridge had with an assistant giving $300(?) to a recruit. Coach O'Brien decided going to Maryland was the best for him. I don't have a problem with that. Don't feel Reggie Ball does either. In this situation I don't see anything unethical at all.

[71Bee responds: IF your speculation is correct, then you are right, nothing unethical took place, just fortuitious timing that within 48 hours, an offer was extended and accepted.]

As Lawbee has point out the O'Brien situation and one with Erickson are completely different.

[71Bee responds, how so? Not argueing, just not clear to me what difference you are referring too]
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">
 
Originally posted by Big Buck:
Has anyone considered the fact that both BOB and CG was telling the truth and that the changes in the staff was mandated by the powers that be. I find it interesting that the two staff changes that we are aware of all came shortly after the Athletic Board met and they directed Braine to write the famous letter to all the Tech supporters. I don't know anything official but it makes more sense to me to take the coaches at their word and assume that circumstances beyond their control has brought about these changes. I have heard rumors that the turnover in coaching personnel is not over. But we all know the value of rumors.
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<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">BigBuck:

If I understand your post correctly, and please correct me if my understanding is wrong, are you implying that PERHAPS BOB and CG did not make the decision for BOB to leave, the "the powers that be" mandated the change?

IF so, isn't the issue then is not weather they made the decision but did they withhold knowledge of the decision in their discussions with recruits before signing day to avoid damaging their possible success?

Once again, my posting was intended to generate a discussion of the right vs. wrong in recruiting, not to prove that someone did something wrong.... So far, not much discussion on this philosophical question.
 
It was obvious for a couple of months before recruiting ended that BOB duties would change or be drastically altered. Brandon Dilweg of Rivals recruiting did an interview with Pat Carter the week after Carter's official visit{I believe he visited the weekend of Dec. 13} that he sat down with BOB and Coach Gailey who will be my COORDINATORS when I get to Tech and they told him that he would have a great chance to play his first year. I posted this information shortly after I read it in DEC. and pointed out that I had never seen Chan assert himself so much as to call himself the QB Coach and Co-Coordinator. Even if BOB had stayed I think his biggest contributions on Sat. afternoons would consist of
carrying Chan's clipboard during games. I know that Pat Carter said that CG would be his coach or at least Carter said he did, now doesn't it seem reasonable that Chan would also say the same to Reggie Ball? I would think so.
 
Buck,
Make no mistake about it. Chan will be the real OC in 2003....just like he was in 2002.
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Jerry, effects are very often cumulative. There is no doubt, the O'Leary fiasco caused turmoil at Tech. The same with the Mac incident.

We entered last year with this hanging over our head, have a disastrous ending to the season, plus some seeming differences between Gailey and O'Brien.

All of that was real. Now the AJC jumped on every piece of negative info and tried to use it against us in the recruiting wars. It is not hard to imagine they were waiting with typewriters ready for the exit of O'Brien prior to the signing date.

It is easy to understand the caution of holding off any decisions until after the signing date.

Sometimes you cannot control the damage of the past incidents, but you can make the better decisions to control negative effects of the future.

There can be little doubt, the effects of all the things that happened from GOL leaving through the departure of O'Brien had an effect on the players who were attached to them. This had to affect their play in some ways.

It is reasonable to suggest some of the players attachment to O'Brien would have an effect on their feelings toward Gailey. It is also reasonable their attachment to Mac would bleed over to this year and many would be more sympathetic to O'Brien as opposed to the new kid on the block (Gailey).

It is reasonable to suggest the final cleaning of the house, and two years of Gailey's own recruits could go a long way toward creating a better unity among the players.

The final question, "does Chan Gailey have the ability to right the ship?" is still unanswered at this time, but we will not know the answer until this season is played.

My last statement about most of the turmoil surrounding the program for the past two years can absolutely be placed at the feet of O'Leary, Mac, and possibly to O'Brien. If this year is a real winner, then it can be assumed part of last year's problems lay at the feet of the OC.

If this year is a failure, then we can assume the OC may not have been the problem last year.

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