touchback?

ComputerNut62

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I’m annoyed Shannahan didn’t get credited with a 71 yard punt. You can’t have a negative return into the end zone or it would be a safety. So if the returner doesn’t get the negative yardage, the punter should get the credit for that distance.
 

gtrower

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Agree that this and the offensive fumble/touchback rule are the 2 dumbest rules in football.

- Muffed punt recovered in the end zone by the return team should result in the ball being placed at the 1. If they had recovered at the 2 they get it at the 2, if they recovered at the 1 they get it at the 1, if they recover in the end zone there shouldn’t be some magical 20 yard reward. But can’t be a safety if they never had possession - I think that’s defensible.

In fact the biggest problem I have with this rule is that there’s no rule stopping a returner from seeing a punt heading towards the sideline/goal line and “muffing it” out the back of the endzone. Risky, but if you don’t have gunners in your face then you can really game the system there.

- Fumble out of the end zone by the offensive team should just go back to the spot of the fumble. In its current form this is maybe the dumbest rule in any sport I can think of right now. Not only is it ludicrous but it directly contradicts other rules in the books (can’t fumble forward).
 

The Champ

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Agree that this and the offensive fumble/touchback rule are the 2 dumbest rules in football.

- Muffed punt recovered in the end zone by the return team should result in the ball being placed at the 1. If they had recovered at the 2 they get it at the 2, if they recovered at the 1 they get it at the 1, if they recover in the end zone there shouldn’t be some magical 20 yard reward. But can’t be a safety if they never had possession - I think that’s defensible.

In fact the biggest problem I have with this rule is that there’s no rule stopping a returner from seeing a punt heading towards the sideline/goal line and “muffing it” out the back of the endzone. Risky, but if you don’t have gunners in your face then you can really game the system there.

- Fumble out of the end zone by the offensive team should just go back to the spot of the fumble. In its current form this is maybe the dumbest rule in any sport I can think of right now. Not only is it ludicrous but it directly contradicts other rules in the books (can’t fumble forward).
If a muff is treated like a fumble between the goal lines, I don’t see why it isn’t treated like a fumble if it goes into the end zone. Muff into the end zone should be a safety IMO.

refs applied the rule book call correctly; rule book should be rethought though in numerous places
 

Vespinae

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If a muff is treated like a fumble between the goal lines, I don’t see why it isn’t treated like a fumble if it goes into the end zone. Muff into the end zone should be a safety IMO.

refs applied the rule book call correctly; rule book should be rethought though in numerous places
I think it's because even if the punt is muffed, the returning team doesn't possess it until they control it. Even if the punt is muffed, the kicking team can't advance it I believe. So punting is already a weird situation rule-wise.
 

gtg970g

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A little of topic but I don't understand why kicking the kickoff out of bounds still results in there ball at the 35 yard line. Seems like it should be the 40 now that touchback goes to the 25.
 

LagrangeJacket

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A little late on this one. But the answer is that a muff (touching of the ball in a failed attempt to possess it) or a tip does not affect the status of the ball.

If a forward pass is tipped, it is still a forward pass and thus dead once it hits the ground. If the offense fumbles the ball and the defense muffs the fumble while trying to recover it, the status of the ball does not change. It is still a loose ball in team possession of the offense (i.e., the offense gets the ball if the fumble is muffed out of bounds). In the same way, a free kick that is muffed (by either team) is still a free kick. And free kicks that go into the receiving team’s end zone are touchbacks by rule.

If a forward pass is tipped, it is still a forward pass and thus dead once it hits the ground. If the offense fumbles the ball and the defense muffs the fumble, it is still a loose ball in team possession of the offense (i.e., the offense gets the ball if the fumble is muffed out of bounds). In the same way, a free kick that is muffed (by either team) is still a free kick. And free kicks that go into the receiving team’s end zone are touchbacks by rule.
In practice, this helps the receiving team, such as when a muff on the 1 yard line goes into the end zone. In theory, that’s not the case. For example, a powerful line drive kickoff could be muffed at the 35 and deflect into the end zone (obviously, I’ve never seen this happen). But if it did, the ball would come out to the 25, not the 35.
 

gtrower

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A little late on this one. But the answer is that a muff (touching of the ball in a failed attempt to possess it) or a tip does not affect the status of the ball.

If a forward pass is tipped, it is still a forward pass and thus dead once it hits the ground. If the offense fumbles the ball and the defense muffs the fumble while trying to recover it, the status of the ball does not change. It is still a loose ball in team possession of the offense (i.e., the offense gets the ball if the fumble is muffed out of bounds). In the same way, a free kick that is muffed (by either team) is still a free kick. And free kicks that go into the receiving team’s end zone are touchbacks by rule.

If a forward pass is tipped, it is still a forward pass and thus dead once it hits the ground. If the offense fumbles the ball and the defense muffs the fumble, it is still a loose ball in team possession of the offense (i.e., the offense gets the ball if the fumble is muffed out of bounds). In the same way, a free kick that is muffed (by either team) is still a free kick. And free kicks that go into the receiving team’s end zone are touchbacks by rule.
In practice, this helps the receiving team, such as when a muff on the 1 yard line goes into the end zone. In theory, that’s not the case. For example, a powerful line drive kickoff could be muffed at the 35 and deflect into the end zone (obviously, I’ve never seen this happen). But if it did, the ball would come out to the 25, not the 35.
I think we all understand the rule. We just think it’s a stupid rule.
 
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