Two things

Re: There just won\'t be that many IMO

Well, what you get with both so far is damaged goods. Clarett's shoulder problems may very well come back to haunt him in the pros, and McClendon is always hurt. Not a good way to make an impression on the pros.
 
Re: There just won\'t be that many IMO

I think you have got it right, ncjacket. There are not going to be that many that go early and it will not hurt the college game. Just look at basketball. The early entries have hurt the NBA, but college is just as competitive and entertaining as ever.

The thing I really wonder about is how this ruling impacts college baseball. I believe that the existing rules keep college players from going pro until after their Jr year. I am not sure if this rule could be toppled as well, but I think college baseball could potentially be impacted more than football.
 
Re: what do YOU think you know about Lewis....

Look, I'm not meaning to argue with you about Ray Lewis, an argument that nationally I'd never win. He was in the middle of a homicide and will carry that his whole life. It SEEMS that he had nothing to do with the murders, but in a frantic move helped cover up evidence. Personally I can see a lot of people getting caught in the wrong spot. But he came clean and is the only one that did regarding that event.

The bar event was likely much ado about nothing from what I've heard (and is quite old I believe). I've personally seen him many times and every time he is very cool and not as depicted. During football season, he works out all day long and then after practice is over goes home and watches more film that night (every night). After six months of that, I'd party hard too.

Regarding limos, etc. do you and your buddies ever go to Myrtle Beach and play golf, for example. I've seen plenty of lily white 40 year old big time executives turn into partying, womanizing, drunk crazies too. So what? Is he different because he's a black football?

Oops, I'm argueing after all...
 
Re: what do YOU think you know about Lewis....

My lilly white golfing buddies have never hit women or been anywhere near a murder, much less covered one up.

How could this converstation have *possibly* been turned into partying and drinking beer? We are talking about a guy that was present at the scene of a murder, evaded police afterwards, and refused to cooperate when questioned.

Whether he actually came clean or had enough time to manage a consistent story with his friends or attorney is a question to me. If he did come clean, it wasn't until after his back was against the wall.

If this was a race issue we'd all hate Joe Hamilton and Daryl Smith too. We'd all love Ryan Leaf and Chris Rix.

But we all love Joe and Daryl and dislike Ryan. And all Ryan did was sleep through team meetings and cuss out a coach and a reporter.

There's plenty of racism in this world , but the Ray Lewis investigation is not an example. There is a time to pick up a torch, but to choose this example would only take away from a just cause.

The issue is that Ray is a criminal and gloats about spending time with other criminals. The guy was right in the middle of whatever happened that night. He knew exactly what happened and he refused to help. I would not be surprised at all if he participated. He sure has no remorse for the deaths - that part is obvious.

To claim that the authorities ever said, "We're gonna get Ray Lewis," and that they were not concerned with who killed those guys is just not true. If the authorities wanted to question Ray - - they should have - - because he was there - and he ran on top of that. So that part is accurate. Any other person with blood on them and ran from the police after a murder would have been treated a lot worse than he was. Believe that.

The guy dodged a bullet because he is a celebrity.

Any person that had blood on them right after a murder was pretty damn close, and he had blood on him. How could he possibly have not been part of the murder?

Even the most racially biased white or black person can see that the evidence leads to Ray being part of what happened. The shame is that the fact that he is so great at football seems to have apeased certain people.

I agree that the way Ray has been treated is a tragedy. A tragedy that he is allowed to walk outside of prison, and even worse, be adored by blind loyalists.

This guy is so inately bad that he can't even stay out of trouble AFTER he gets in the worst trouble he could have been accused of. Twice! The guy didn't have enough self confidence not to back down from a woman and just walk away. His ego is so big and his confidence so small that he had to *physically* put a woman in her place.

To be accused of something horrible could be coincidence. When it keeps happening, it shows a trend, no matter the excuse. Do we all think Chris Rix is just a kid with a few bad breaks, or did most of us eventually decide he was a punk? After a while, enough is enough.

I literally change the channel when Ray Lewis is on. He has made a mint because of the celebrity that accompanied his arrest. It's the best thing that ever happened to him.

He relishes every bit of this type of attention, I promise. Don't feel bad for that scumbag.
 
Re: what do YOU think you know about Lewis....

Amen, Techfowl, but next time please don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

Seriously, that whole incident in Buckhead never smelled right.
 
Re: what do YOU think you know about Lewis....

Look, you may be totally right but most of your spout is based on emotions not facts.

Fact 1: The woman in the bar incident happened long before the Super Bowl weekend. His probation has not allowed him to drink and goof off.

Fact 2: Not one eye witness had Ray Lewis near the murders. He was in the limo and then came out after the commotion occurred. Certainly he can be attacked for having poor judgement regarding friends, they aren't anymore, but being stupid in shock is his dumbest mistake. And this mistake he did come clean on. Did you watch the trial? They weren't going to convict anyone (sorry that's an opinion).

Opinion: I believe that Ray was in fact the focal point of the DA. And considering how poor his case was why not? Lewis had the most to lose and was at the scene. He's the obvious guy to put the squeeze on. Maybe Lewis' statement was deadly accurate. That is they focused so much on him instead of trying to focus on the guys who killed them.

Fact 3: How did Lewis dodge a bullet? The only thing he could possibly get out of that trial was cover up. At the right time for him, he cut a deal to go state's evidence against his 'friends'. He was the only person to be convicted of anything.

Regarding his rookie speeches, I've read many national articles written by authors highly impressed with Lewis speeches to the rookies. Now five years later, this blurb comes up? Huh?

Sorry, I'd continue and will later but I have to run.
 
Re: what do YOU think you know about Lewis....

I can get carried away - and your last post was reasonable, as was *most* of your other one on this thread.

Points taken.

The emotion from my last post came from the fact that race had somehow been inserted into the issue. That, in itself is not the end of the world, but it was worded with a shot at the "lilly white" people.

I just erased about a zillion word tirade, but I will sum it up like this.

To include a shot at generic, unnamed, "lilly white" people, all of a sudden takes a shot at every white person on this board. I'm white.

"Lilly white," whether intentional or not - is inflammatory language. I don't like being lumped in a group just like you don't.
 
Re: what do YOU think you know about Lewis....

Ok fine. Let's have a whiskey clear at a football game some day.

I'm (lily) white too. I went back and looked at my comment and certainly didn't mean to attack white people. What I was trying to do was suggest that Ray Lewis does tend to get treated poorly because he's viewed as an inner city (black) thug. Yes, I guess I dropped the racist bombshell (funny considering I'm very conservative, white...).

I think I referenced in my post or another, Billy White Shoes Johnson. Growing up in Atlanta I remember hating that guy. Why? Likely because he was flashy compared to my (white) conservative society (and likely because I heard I shouldn't like him).

Anyway, I've tried hard to analyze Ray Lewis. As a Baltimore Raven fan now, I had to decide if I could ever root for Lewis after his involvement in the murders. So I investigated, analyzed, etc. before I rooted or booed for him.

Lewis, it seems, was in the wrong place with the wrong friends, etc. in Atlanta. From what I've seen he has choosen his friends a little more wisely since.

Other than that, the incident in the bar five years ago was according to my close sources 'a joke' and not fair to Lewis at all.

So what's really left, is a guy who dances different to start the game, wears flashy clothes, has a few woman hanging on him, is confident and will talk, drives in a limo, etc. Take out the dancing and the fact that he's black, and I could be talking about Joe Namath. Namath was made into a star for his clothes, partying, women, etc. Lewis is vilified for it.

It's my guess that race is the difference between the two. By the way, I am not blessing Lewis for his involvement with the Atlanta murders. My original post was considering it was clear he did nothing to actually hurt anyone, wasn't it only fair to give him a second chance too.

As an aside, I am highly analytical and very observant of people. My friends say too much so. But I've watched Lewis up close for a while now. Other players really respect and like him. He plays very fair, he is an excellent sportsman. He may talk like so many do now, but afterwards he will shake your hand. It is said many times that how a person acts in competition (golf, football, etc.) is a pretty good sign of their character. I could be wrong but I don't think Lewis is that bad of a guy.
 
Re: what do YOU think you know about Lewis....

We just have different stopping points on where we draw the line on being a fan.

You must really love the Ravens. I don't like Billick and I don't like Ray either.

I used to pull for the Falcons back when they used to win about one dang game a year, but I had to quit after they allowed Jamal to break the bank. He was just TOO much of a punk for me and still is. I can't even pull for them anymore.

I doubt any pro team will ever impress me too much again - although I did enjoy the way both Super Bowl teams panned out this year. Thought both teams handled themselves as well as we could ever expect from Pro teams, and I enjoyed seeing how many GA, SC, and NC homeststate boys ended up on the Panthers. Around 24 from southeast schools on the Panthers alone.

It's cool that you support your team, but you also - from the viewpoint of a person with no emotional ties to the situation - are a little optimistic in your assessment of Ray.

Just keep pulling for the White and Gold and all will be ok with me.
 
The Ravens

I do like the Ravens and laugh about their national image.

It's an absolute joke to me that the Ravens are now football's Raiders of the past. I also use to call the Seminoles a bunch of thugs but now wish I had held my tongue. One of the reasons the Ravens have been successful is that Ozzie Newsome knows who not to get.

We've been dying for a receiver forever but there's no way we'd pick up Terrell Owens, etc. In football, those are the guys that need to be kicked a few times.

The Bam Morrises have not faired too well with Newsome. The Ravens are loaded with Jon Ogden's, Peter Boulwares, Edwin Mulitalo, and Todd Heap. All these guys exude class.

The real thugs on the team are Chris McCalister (always in minor trouble) and soon to be ex Raven Jamal Lewis (never in trouble but failed NFL drug and then alcohol tests). But I've seen a lot worse on just about every other team.

The Ravens moved to Baltimore leaving a very supportive city and really that's the root of most disdain for us. Well, we played the game that the NFL forced us to play. By why not the same acrimony for the Baltimore, er Indianapolis Colts?

Why is Al Davis in the Hall of Fame and Modell not? Davis moved his team twice (both cities very supportive) and sued the NFL multiple times.

Good grief, Jay Williams (?) was allowed to cry on national tv and HE PULLED THE TRIGGER.

Ok, I'll stop, but it's been fun. I'm most proud of the Yellow Jackets and getting to Atlanta or other venue is always and will always be my priority. It really is important to me to feel I'm attached and rooting for the Lewises, Prices and Daniels of the world.
 
Re: The Ravens

I'm not a Ravens fan and I detest Miami, BUT:

1. Billick has a program where all Ravens players must be truly involved in the community. And they are. This is excellent personal leadership, and he was won a Super Bowl. I don't feel passionately for or against NFL teams. I usually root for whatever Tech players are in the game.

2. Lewis should not be condemned merely for accusations against him. In the Balto-Wash area, Lewis has at least 2 regular commercial endorsements, which suggest he has credibility in the community.

3. Lewis is a great player who has kept pretty clean and has been a team leader. While I can do without his theatrics, he leads by example on the field. I actually root for him to succeed. He plays with Butkus-like intensity and may be every bit as good.

4. I doubt the Maurice Clarett situation will turn the football world upside down. It may well take a few personal tragedies to convince a handful of kids they aren't physically capable of playing in the NFL til they have at least a couple of years of college. This is a democ, er, republic, and people can usually do what they want (except for those of us living under US occupation).

5. If Willie Williams is academically eligible, and he can stay out of further trouble, he should have the opportunity to play and go to college. Its Miami's responsibility to maintain the school's academic integrity - not Williams' responsibility. His responsibility is to stay academically eligible and keep his nose clean.

6. I wish Clarett well. Ohio State was more than willing to take him back so Clarett could help them win more games. IMO, Clarett was exercising the options that his skills give him. Hopefully, the NFL will resist the temptation of taking very young kids.
 
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