UVA thoughts..

MoverofFridge2

MoverofFridge2

Helluva Engineer
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
2,260
1. Defensively I see very little to whine about. I’m still trying to figure out how or why was Thacker held under previous coach thumb. The one area I see is that there are snaps where the DL is not set or Is slow is getting set before the play begins. This is a coaching fix that needs fixed. We haven’t played this good of defense in quite some time imo. Before you jump, I also realize we haven’t played a barn burning offense under Key yet. Our DB’s are playing good football under Tillman. Our two best LB’s could play for anyone in the country which I think says a lot. They are both good football players which will get an opportunity on Sundays I think. I would like to see more blitz packages but that just me.

2. Offensively, we are just a train wreck. I have a hard time finding bright spots anywhere except for a couple of our WR’s. The thing that confounds me is just how poor we are up front. I spend most of my time watching that group and not the ball plus it’s what I also coached back in the day. We do not have one offensive lineman that could play elsewhere imo. You can disagree, but I think Brent Key is a good offensive line coach, but he just hasn’t produced with this position. He has his players that he recruited and they are still under performing. At the end of the day, if you are poor up front your gonna get your a$$ kicked 95% of the time. The game of football has become one of finesse over the last few years especially from tackle to tackle. I want to see five individuals come off the football and knock the cold codded dog piss out of someone instead of playing this finesse bs. That group of five or six including the TE have to be on the same page and you have to have some continuity or I just do not think you can be successful. Our TE’s are just atrocious. If I’m Key I’m moving the South Carolina transfer to TE, he couldn’t be worse than what is there. I think we have decent, not great or poor RB’s. I would like to see more of Dantae, but I have a feeling he is trying to work his way on the field after coming out on Twitter after the previous coach was shown the door.

3. Special teams, I’m not even going there.

4. Coaching, I want to see the remaining body of work before making a judgement on CBK. I think he will be a good coach because I think he will make the hard decisions when it comes to everyone involved in the program from players to coaches. IF, he gets the job, his first hire needs to be a top flight offensive line coach. Secondly, I think he needs to take a hard look at finding a progressive OC. I don’t know if Long is that person or not, but we need someone that’s going to take advantage of red zone opportunities. Defensively, I think you take a look at the end of the year and if the progress continues, then I think you stay the course.

5. Head Coach, I’m a Brent Key fan. I really believe he has what it takes to run a good, solid football program. I’m not saying the job is his at this point, but I think there has been some improvement in areas in the past three weeks. Thursday night was an abortion at best, but I’m not sure all of that can be put on one individual.
 
MoverofFridge2 said:
1. Defensively I see very little to whine about. I’m still trying to figure out how or why was Thacker held under previous coach thumb. The one area I see is that there are snaps where the DL is not set or Is slow is getting set before the play begins. This is a coaching fix that needs fixed. We haven’t played this good of defense in quite some time imo. Before you jump, I also realize we haven’t played a barn burning offense under Key yet. Our DB’s are playing good football under Tillman. Our two best LB’s could play for anyone in the country which I think says a lot. They are both good football players which will get an opportunity on Sundays I think. I would like to see more blitz packages but that just me.

2. Offensively, we are just a train wreck. I have a hard time finding bright spots anywhere except for a couple of our WR’s. The thing that confounds me is just how poor we are up front. I spend most of my time watching that group and not the ball plus it’s what I also coached back in the day. We do not have one offensive lineman that could play elsewhere imo. You can disagree, but I think Brent Key is a good offensive line coach, but he just hasn’t produced with this position. He has his players that he recruited and they are still under performing. At the end of the day, if you are poor up front your gonna get your a$$ kicked 95% of the time. The game of football has become one of finesse over the last few years especially from tackle to tackle. I want to see five individuals come off the football and knock the cold codded dog piss out of someone instead of playing this finesse bs. That group of five or six including the TE have to be on the same page and you have to have some continuity or I just do not think you can be successful. Our TE’s are just atrocious. If I’m Key I’m moving the South Carolina transfer to TE, he couldn’t be worse than what is there. I think we have decent, not great or poor RB’s. I would like to see more of Dantae, but I have a feeling he is trying to work his way on the field after coming out on Twitter after the previous coach was shown the door.

3. Special teams, I’m not even going there.

4. Coaching, I want to see the remaining body of work before making a judgement on CBK. I think he will be a good coach because I think he will make the hard decisions when it comes to everyone involved in the program from players to coaches. IF, he gets the job, his first hire needs to be a top flight offensive line coach. Secondly, I think he needs to take a hard look at finding a progressive OC. I don’t know if Long is that person or not, but we need someone that’s going to take advantage of red zone opportunities. Defensively, I think you take a look at the end of the year and if the progress continues, then I think you stay the course.

5. Head Coach, I’m a Brent Key fan. I really believe he has what it takes to run a good, solid football program. I’m not saying the job is his at this point, but I think there has been some improvement in areas in the past three weeks. Thursday night was an abortion at best, but I’m not sure all of that can be put on one individual.
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I agree with all your points, but I would not go so easy on Long. From what I have seen thus far, he is a terrible OC, and it was never so obvious as it was Thursday night. I talked to a guy at the game who said someone talked to Long a couple of weeks ago and asked him about his thoughts on Collins. He said "eff, Collins. He would never let me call the plays I wanted to." Unfortunately, now that I have seen the plays he does call, I don't think Collins hurt him as much as he hurts himself. Based on what he said about Collins though, I wonder if even P'Nut might have been a better OC than we thought. Thacker sure does seem to be doing better without Collins around.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
I agree with all your points, but I would not go so easy on Long. From what I have seen thus far, he is a terrible OC, and it was never so obvious as it was Thursday night. I talked to a guy at the game who said someone talked to Long a couple of weeks ago and asked him about his thoughts on Collins. He said "eff, Collins. He would never let me call the plays I wanted to." Unfortunately, now that I have seen the plays he does call, I don't think Collins hurt him as much as he hurts himself. Based on what he said about Collins though, I wonder if even P'Nut might have been a better OC than we thought. Thacker sure does seem to be doing better without Collins around.
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Thank you, I can respect that. I think Long has called some good series in the past few weeks. My biggest problem with him is the red zone. I think he has a unique style and offensive package that can be successful. I’m not opposed to change there at all, heck I just want to see more improvement. He does make some head scratching calls, but I’ve also seen him call some good series as well. Patented may have been better who knows.

The difficult part for me is that the previous coach had such a hard thumb on the coaching staff it appears. Great leaders hire good people and let them do their job. If the hired individuals underperform or do not meet the standard then they are shown the door. I think this is where CBK would make the hard decisions that would bring our program back to respectability.
 
JoeCakeEater said:
Say what? I was under the impression that Collins was disconnected from the offense and it was Long’s to run. Not sure I’m buying that one.
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Even though I think Long has sucked since Collins left, he has definitely called different plays than he did before the firing. And all you have to do is look at Thacker and see how the absence of Collins has affected his work as DC. Pretty sure Collins was a habitual micro-manager.
 
MoverofFridge2 said:
Thank you, I can respect that. I think Long has called some good series in the past few weeks. My biggest problem with him is the red zone. I think he has a unique style and offensive package that can be successful. I’m not opposed to change there at all, heck I just want to see more improvement. He does make some head scratching calls, but I’ve also seen him call some good series as well. Patented may have been better who knows.

The difficult part for me is that the previous coach had such a hard thumb on the coaching staff it appears. Great leaders hire good people and let them do their job. If the hired individuals underperform or do not meet the standard then they are shown the door. I think this is where CBK would make the hard decisions that would bring our program back to respectability.
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Key has to, by definition of his job, take responsibility for Thursday night, but I don't think it was necessarily really his fault. Collins was a cancer on Tech football, and it may take a long time to "cure" that cancer, no matter who the coach is.
 
JoeCakeEater said:
Say what? I was under the impression that Collins was disconnected from the offense and it was Long’s to run. Not sure I’m buying that one.
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I have also heard what Supersize heard but guaranteed not the same source.

L’il Joe was complaining on Thursday why we were not throwing short passes since the OL couldn’t hold blocks long enough for the receivers to get downfield. That would be on Long.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
Key has to, by definition of his job, take responsibility for Thursday night, but I don't think it was necessarily really his fault. Collins was a cancer on Tech football, and it may take a long time to "cure" that cancer, no matter who the coach is.
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I agree wholeheartedly Super on Key and responsibility. It all falls on him because he is the head guy. I think the surface has just been scratched on what the previous head coach did in regards to the football program and yes it could take a LONG time for the cure unfortunately.
 
00Burdell said:
I have also heard what Supersize heard but guaranteed not the same source.

L’il Joe was complaining on Thursday why we were not throwing short passes since the OL couldn’t hold blocks long enough for the receivers to get downfield. That would be on Long.
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I didn't understand the lack of short throws, swing passes, or crossing patterns. Seems like all Long called were long passes, and the QB, even if he might turn out to be good, just wasn't ready for those passes Thursday night.
 
00Burdell said:
I have also heard what Supersize heard but guaranteed not the same source.

L’il Joe was complaining on Thursday why we were not throwing short passes since the OL couldn’t hold blocks long enough for the receivers to get downfield. That would be on Long.
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Burdell, understand please I’m not trying to be a smarta$$, but if you look early in the game most of what Sims was throwing was short and intermediate routes If I remember correctly. There were a couple of deep balls thrown, but the majority was underneath. When Gibson came in, it seemed he was trying to hit the home run more than taking the underneath stuff. Again, I could be very wrong since my memory isnt very good, but I will definitely look at it when I can stomach to watch the replay
 
00Burdell said:
I have also heard what Supersize heard but guaranteed not the same source.

L’il Joe was complaining on Thursday why we were not throwing short passes since the OL couldn’t hold blocks long enough for the receivers to get downfield. That would be on Long.
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But we were throwing short passes.
 
Might be a bit premature to assume the UVA game is the aberration. The risky thing with Key is you say he needs to find good, progressive coaches but he's never done that before. He could be good at that or he could be terrible. How many years can we afford to invest in finding out?
 
GTLiebs said:
Might be a bit premature to assume the UVA game is the aberration. The risky thing with Key is you say he needs to find good, progressive coaches but he's never done that before. He could be good at that or he could be terrible. How many years can we afford to invest in finding out?
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Probably the same number of years it will take for an "established" coach to get things moving forward. I hope you don't think a new coach with an entire new staff and approach is going to turn things around immediately. Only Johnson was able to do that, and that was because Chan had left him so much awesome talent.
 
GTLiebs said:
Might be a bit premature to assume the UVA game is the aberration. The risky thing with Key is you say he needs to find good, progressive coaches but he's never done that before. He could be good at that or he could be terrible. How many years can we afford to invest in finding out?
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You don’t invest at all unless he rights the ship the remainder of the way. There’s a LOT of football left.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
Probably the same number of years it will take for an "established" coach to get things moving forward. I hope you don't think a new coach with an entire new staff and approach is going to turn things around immediately. Only Johnson was able to do that, and that was because Chan had left him so much awesome talent.
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It's less a question of time, more a question of risks. Kind of as you said, may take a number of years to turn things around, but what are the odds of Key picking a staff to do that his first go at it vs someone who has more experience? I'm not trying to say Key can't be good with this argument, just that he has no track record in these parts of being a coach (recruiting as well, on the defensive side at least). It's a lot to gamble on so many unknowns.
 
GTLiebs said:
It's less a question of time, more a question of risks. Kind of as you said, may take a number of years to turn things around, but what are the odds of Key picking a staff to do that his first go at it vs someone who has more experience? I'm not trying to say Key can't be good with this argument, just that he has no track record in these parts of being a coach (recruiting as well, on the defensive side at least). It's a lot to gamble on so many unknowns.
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With anybody we hire, we are taking a gamble. One positive for Key is that he has a running start on any new guy we bring in. And he knows the climate at Tech, whereas a new guy would have to learn it. The rest of the season will show how much of a running start he actually has, and what he has done with it.
 
Supersize that order mutt said:
With anybody we hire, we are taking a gamble. One positive for Key is that he has a running start on any new guy we bring in. And he knows the climate at Tech, whereas a new guy would have to learn it. The rest of the season will show how much of a running start he actually has, and what he has done with it.
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To rephrase what I said, yes any coach is a gamble but Key seems a greater gamble to me compered to other options that have more of a track record being a successful head coach. Just cause multiple options are risky doesn't mean they are equally risky.
 
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