Why Not Reverse the Outcome of the Duke Game?

gtzulu said:
They only said the last play was called wrong. They did not say whether all the other plays in the game were called correctly or not. If you review and change the ruling on one play, you'd need to review them all to be fair. Maybe on the balance the bad calls favored Duke, not Miami.
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So much this
 
I hate Duke and am greatly enjoying their misery, but it is bullshit that sports in general suffers from a complete lack of integrity in terms of sticking to its own rules. This is the same sort of nonsense as refs "swallowing the whistle" at the end of basketball games and retards being ok with that.

If you can't make the correct call, and if you can't go back and fix an obviously incorrect call that inarguably affected a game outcome and awarded a win to a team that didn't actually win by the rules of the game, you need to be replaced. Because your game is bullshit.

This goes for refs, commissioners who spout the party line about "we can't change the result after the fact," etc. Because bullshit, yes you can change the result. You just choose not to because you're ok with being incorrect and apparently it's more profitable to be incorrect.

It surprises me that a bunch of engineers on a GT message board also enjoy being incorrect, but I see it every time some ööööty non-call in the final seconds screws us out of a chance to win a basketball game. The "bigcrys" come out and the people who don't care about truth and accuracy bend over backwards to kiss the ass of refs who call a game by a different set of rules at the end.

The length-of-game complaints surrounding replay are also bullshit. I don't care if it takes three hours to review replay footage to come up with the correct call. Do it and be correct, otherwise your game is complete bullshit.

I look forward to the day when human judgment calls and bias are removed from sports officiating, if that day ever comes.
 
staggerwing said:
I hate Duke and am greatly enjoying their misery, but it is bullshit that sports in general suffers from a complete lack of integrity in terms of sticking to its own rules. This is the same sort of nonsense as refs "swallowing the whistle" at the end of basketball games and retards being ok with that.

If you can't make the correct call, and if you can't go back and fix an obviously incorrect call that inarguably affected a game outcome and awarded a win to a team that didn't actually win by the rules of the game, you need to be replaced. Because your game is bullshit.

This goes for refs, commissioners who spout the party line about "we can't change the result after the fact," etc. Because bullshit, yes you can change the result. You just choose not to because you're ok with being incorrect and apparently it's more profitable to be incorrect.

It surprises me that a bunch of engineers on a GT message board also enjoy being incorrect, but I see it every time some ööööty non-call in the final seconds screws us out of a chance to win a basketball game. The "bigcrys" come out and the people who don't care about truth and accuracy bend over backwards to kiss the ass of refs who call a game by a different set of rules at the end.

The length-of-game complaints surrounding replay are also bullshit. I don't care if it takes three hours to review replay footage to come up with the correct call. Do it and be correct, otherwise your game is complete bullshit.

I look forward to the day when human judgment calls and bias are removed from sports officiating, if that day ever comes.
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:bigcry::bigcry:
 
staggerwing said:
It surprises me that a bunch of engineers on a GT message board also enjoy being incorrect, but I see it every time some ööööty non-call in the final seconds screws us out of a chance to win a basketball game. The "bigcrys" come out and the people who don't care about truth and accuracy bend over backwards to kiss the ass of refs who call a game by a different set of rules at the end.
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That's because engineers actually think about the big picture and all the consequences that changes like what you're suggesting would have. Sometimes fixing one thing can make things worse overall, as is the case with going back and changing results after the fact.
 
Why are we privileging game ending plays? Are we gonna start reviewing every play in the game to see what was called incorrectly and make a judgment about who "should have" actually won the game and award it to them?

I agree with others that it it wasn't an NC team at the losing end we wouldn't have heard a peep from the ACC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If we let Swofford change outcomes Wake and NC State would be declared winners this week.
 
GTFanJeff said:
lol

Let's go back and review every play of this game and see who the calls overall favored then. A logical engineer that fails to logically think about all of the ramifications.
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I'm no engineer, m-train pays better!

But yeah, instead of reviewing every play in the game, why don't one of you genius engineers or programmers design a system that removes the need for human referees since they're obviously incapable of doing their jobs correctly as we see on a weekly basis across the country. I don't know, lasers or some öööö to detect knees touching down?

Otherwise yes, every call in every game should be looked at, or better yet made correctly the first time with the assistance of replay, regardless of how long that takes.
 
You just can never start that precedent, do we want reviews after games and reversals. I don't think so.
 
They should absolutely not reverse the outcome.

There are big plays every week where someone, after the fact can pull up a sideline photo or super zoomed freeze frame from an alternate view and say "he should have been down" or "that ball hit the ground", etc. It's obvious that the guy was down after seeing some pics pop up on the Internet after the game, but the refs don't have access to every photo in the world like we do. They have to judge it by what was "irrefutable" given the few angles they have. I don't know what angles they had but I guess they couldn't see that 100% the guy was down. They missed one. It happens.

The rest of the "outrage" over the officiating on the play is overblown. Look at it piece by piece and it's not that bad:

-they threw a flag for a block in the back, but picked it up PRIOR to the review. They should have been more clear, but correct call

-they missed a different block in the back. It happens on nearly every play. They could not, by rule, call that penalty based on the review, no matter how obvious it was on tape. It was probably inconsequential to the play anyway since the ball was being thrown back across the field.

-guy runs on the field early to celebrate. Really? People have resorted to trying to have the refs bail them out for stuff like this? TD would have stood anyway. The guy had no affect on the play.

-yes, upon further Internet review of hundreds of photos taken of the play, someone found an angle that showed his knee down...only took a couple of hours. The refs have minutes and a select few camera angles. Everyone is going to have to get over this one, just like every "should have been" play that has come before and the many more that will happen in future games. Should we reverse the famous Cal/Stanford band on the field play? He was down...
 
staggerwing said:
I'm no engineer, m-train pays better!

But yeah, instead of reviewing every play in the game, why don't one of you genius engineers or programmers design a system that removes the need for human referees since they're obviously incapable of doing their jobs correctly as we see on a weekly basis across the country. I don't know, lasers or some öööö to detect knees touching down?

Otherwise yes, every call in every game should be looked at, or better yet made correctly the first time with the assistance of replay, regardless of how long that takes.
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Should we also find a system that removes the need for human offensive lineman at GT? Because they are also obviously incapable of doing their job correctly as we see on a weekly basis.

It's a game. Refs are part of that game. Sometimes öööö happens and bad calls are made. Often the rules are pretty subjective adding even more human judgement. You can argue about plays all day and often there is no obvious right answer, just make a call and move on.

Remember this is a game that spots the ball based on a line judge 10 yards away from the play but then gets a chain out to measure down to be inch. It's all absurd. That's what makes it football.
 
Missed calls? How about giving teams five downs on their end of game scoring drive to win. If that game wasn't reversed than neither should this one.
 
I gotta say watching that ending was like watching the end of a basketball game where the team is trying to run the clock down passing the ball around, except they needed a big shot and made it to win! Refs make a lot of lousy calls, so maybe his knee was down but there seem like so many games where this type of thing pops up. I can't imagine if they reversed the call after the fact as teams would start nitpicking every game looking to reverse a call in their games.
 
staggerwing said:
I'm no engineer, m-train pays better!

But yeah, instead of reviewing every play in the game, why don't one of you genius engineers or programmers design a system that removes the need for human referees since they're obviously incapable of doing their jobs correctly as we see on a weekly basis across the country. I don't know, lasers or some öööö to detect knees touching down?

Otherwise yes, every call in every game should be looked at, or better yet made correctly the first time with the assistance of replay, regardless of how long that takes.
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You made it through Tech being this dumb? Wow.
 
Regarding reviewing one play over another, the NFL automatically reviews touchdowns, giving them different treatment than other plays. So, some plays are treated differently than others in some leagues. So, a logical argument can be made that the remedy applied in game ending plays should be different from others, because the losing team has no chance to recover from them.

In the NHL playoffs, all reviews are done by the league office in Toronto, not by a crew assigned to each game. Maybe, it would be wise for the ACC to consider such a plan. That way, the conference couldn't hide behind what local review officials do and just suspend them, while leaving the incorrect results in place.

I know that it will be easy to say, "That's the last thing we want. Then, the North Carolina bias in the league office would really control everything even more than it does now."

Well, I know how fashionable it is to say that the ACC favors Duke and UNC. But, if intelligent people really believe the ACC is biased to the extent that it actually tolerates or tells officials to throw games to UNC and Duke, then the whole league should be disbanded, or at least teams like Tech should get out of it.

But, the facts suggest that isn't true. If it were, then UNC and Duke would have been a lot more successful in football over the years than they really have been. Now, it does seem that way in basketball, but that's just a perception, too. The reason UNC and Duke seem to get all the breaks in basketball is because they are just plain better in basketball than other teams in most seasons. So, if they benefit from a bad call, it can mean that they win. On the other hand, if we get the benefit of a bad call in basketball during one of our typically horrible recent seasons, it means that we lose by 18, instead of 20, and nobody notices or says anything about it.

The ACC is already considered inferior to the other Power Five conferences, and it really is, when you consider the facts, including the fact that that most of the stadiums, even though they are very small compared to other leagues, are at least half empty most of the time. Of course, this has a lot to do with the fact that the league is spread out from Boston to Miami, and the ACC refuses to adopt geographical realignment, so there's very little travelling done by fans of visiting teams to most games.

Take the ACC games on TV last Thursday and Friday nights, for instance. They had less big-time college atmosphere than the Ivy League game between Harvard and Dartmouth, that was also on TV on Friday night, and that's saying a lot.

Personally, I wish we were in the SEC, because of the energy in the stadiums and the fact that most of the schools are closer geographically to Tech. But, we left the SEC and will never get back in. And that wasn't John Swofford's fault. That was all Bobby Dodd's fault.

In the past you could make the argument that ACC schools, while worse athletically in football, had more academic integrity than schools in other conferences. But, you can't do that anymore, now that we have so many scandals at places like North Carolina, Louisville and FSU, to name a few.

So, considering that our league is such a laughing stock and clinging by its fingernails to Power Five status, shouldn't we at least try to do something positive, like being sure that teams that lose games on the final play because of obvious gross incompetence by our inept officials are awarded the victories they won on the field?

Now, I realize the same posters that have expressed their giddy pleasure over Duke being robbed of a win will be back with their arguments. But, if this had happened to Tech in a game against Duke, I think they would be singing a different song.
 
The ACC is already a joke. Allowing the used tampons who run the league to change the results of a game would be even worse. If anything, this should force the ACC to hire competent officials, but of course it won't.
 
CiraldoForever said:
I am not a fan of Duke or its coach, and I know there were tons of pro-Duke PI calls in Duke's final drive, but putting all that aside, what is the fair remedy for a game ending play, which the conference says would have resulted in the losing team winning, if the officials had made the correct call?

Let's say that Tech had been in Duke's place on that final play. The conference and everybody that's watched the replay has acknowledged that gross incompetence by the officials resulted in the wrong team winning.

So, what should happen? Does it restore integrity in the league to suspend the officials for two league games, but let the wrong result stand? I don't think so. Since it was the last play of the game and we all know who would have won if the officials had done their job correctly, why not just declare Duke the winner?

As I said, I'm not a Duke fan. But, if this had happened to Tech, I would not be very happy with the conference saying the game should have ended with us ahead, but all it's going to do is suspend the officiating crew. Why not do the right thing?
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That's a can of worms that no one wants opened. Anyway, it's just a football game.:biggrin:
 
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