"College sports ‘arms race' not sustainable"

[StingThing]

Link

We were discussing this in another thread yesterday, but it's interesting that the AJC did a write up on it today. The day is fast approaching where we see "salary caps" on these coaches in order to keep things competitive across the board.

What do you say? Is it a problem or not.

 

[NatiJacket]

Salary caps won't be implemented for the sake of competivenes, but to give the presidents an excuse not to offer a 10million $ salary that causes te closure of all other sports at the school.

 

[JoeCakeEater]

It is a free market. If a team can generate the revenue to pay these coaches obscene amounts, then who are we to say otherwise. College football is already structured like Major League baseball, to where certain programs(New York Yankees/Boston Red Socks) are always on the top and rarely can other lower market teams compete(KC Royals). Just because smaller market team shout "this isn't fair!" doesn't mean a change should be made. If their fans are not willing to talk with the check book then they should not speak at all. Unfortunately, we are a medium market team, which doesn't bode well for the direction things are heading.

 

[THWUGA]

Yes, I think it is inevitable that college presidents will eventually sit down and realize that college football and the costs of running a program have run somewhat (/understatement) beyond the mission of the universities and it has become too big an animal. And they'll agree upon certain parameters.

And then just 2-3 years later, athletic administrations will figure out a way to get around this (see: the reason wall street companies began awarding stock options to management, and whatever we'll do now that there is a Pay Czar).

 

[cajunjacket]

I think it is a problem. CFB coaches need to be salary capped. We have seen what happens in sports without caps such as MLB. Success goes to the highest bidder. The most well run league at any level is NFL, IMO. Do exactly what they have been doing if you want to have a competitive, successful league. Salary caps have not hurt the NFL. They have only helped the NFL. If there weren't salary caps in the NFL, it would be the same teams each year just like in MLB.

 

[Ish]

It is a problem, but it doesn't need to be "solved" via salary caps, restrictions, etc. It's something that ADs have to address. They're watching coaches sign huge contracts and leaving 2-3 years later, even "long-term" coaches only stay 10 years or so at one place. I think ADs are going to start bypassing the hot name for the coach that is just as good and will stay at one spot for a longer period of time. It seems like coaches are getting younger and younger; I think smart ADs will target guys in their 40s and 50s who will want to make their next job their last.

ADs will eventually get fed-up with having to replace their insanely expensive coaches with other insanely expensive coaches.

After all, it's the ADs and Presidents who are rewarding this kind of behavior.

 

[gtphd]

I still think it's ridiculous that college football programs pay coaches such high salaries then turn around, claim a loss, and force mandatory student fees.

I know the usual arguments "coaches are not paid by the school", "football programs increase donations", "the student fees cover the cost of your tickets", etc., but it's ridiculous that there's mandatory student fees for sports. If you want to make them voluntary (e.g. student ticket fees), that's one thing, but why should the impoverished international graduate students that know nothing about American sports be forced to pay fees?

 

[Allen Koholic]

I still think it's ridiculous that college football programs pay coaches such high salaries then turn around, claim a loss, and force mandatory student fees.

I know the usual arguments "coaches are not paid by the school", "football programs increase donations", "the student fees cover the cost of your tickets", etc., but it's ridiculous that there's mandatory student fees for sports. If you want to make them voluntary (e.g. student ticket fees), that's one thing, but why should the impoverished international graduate students that know nothing about American sports be forced to pay fees?

They can choose to go somewhere else. There's plenty of top-notch schools in this country that don't give two licks about sports.

 

[gtphd]

We have seen what happens in sports without caps such as MLB. Success goes to the highest bidder.

4 of the last 10 World Series' have been won by teams in the bottom half of the salary bracket, including the lowest payroll team in all of baseball (Marlins).

What this reminds me of is the New York Yankees, a $1.5 billion team with a $200 million/yr payroll (more than twice the Braves) demanding that the City and State governments build them a brand new stadium. The difference is that the Yankees would have paid a fee back to the government for use of the stadium; Athletic Associations just pocket the money from students.

 

[gtphd]

They can choose to go somewhere else. There's plenty of top-notch schools in this country that don't give two licks about sports.

That's not always an option for many students. There are some labs that only exist on a very limited number of campuses (sometimes just one). Even at the undergraduate level, how many in-state Aerospace Engineering programs are there in Georgia? If you want to be an Aerospace Engineer, and you're not wealthy, you have one option: to pay athletic fees.

Also, how do you reconcile fees that increase while someone is in school? You can't transfer graduate programs.

 

[ahsoisee]

Self Implosion

Absolutely! The big Head Coaching salaries were already running amok, and now the assistant coaches salaries are following the same trend.

It is a slap in the face to honest, hardworking, and conscientious teachers at the Universities to see coaches making obnoxious salaries as the teachers receive a pittance pay in comparison.

One is educating our children and preparing them for life, while the other is running a training session for pro prospects while pretending to be part of an educational system.

I love athletics and admire a coach who tries to instill values in players, but there should be a cap on coaches salaries somewhere in the $500,000 range and a cap for assistants in the $200,000 range.

Many fans have deteriorated along with the nation into a freakish ogre which is nothing more than a self gratifying evil element in our nation.

I noted many fans making such remarks as "this is awesome (regarding the rioting)", "lets hit the liquor store and take all the liquor we cannot normally buy (looting & destruction)", "I am enjoying this rioting by
Tennessee fans", etal. This is a deplorable and evil as it shows the low morality of such fans.

The correct moral feelings by fans is to abhor the rioting and foolish actions of the Tennessee fans as well as abhoring the selfish actions of Lane Kiffin.

Father Time

 

[TangoHotelWhiskeyGolf]

That's not always an option for many students. There are some labs that only exist on a very limited number of campuses (sometimes just one). Even at the undergraduate level, how many in-state Aerospace Engineering programs are there in Georgia? If you want to be an Aerospace Engineer, and you're not wealthy, you have one option: to pay athletic fees.

Also, how do you reconcile fees that increase while someone is in school? You can't transfer graduate programs.

I don't disagree with your point...but this is alot of whining for no good reason. Life isn't fair and alot of it sucks...get over it.

This isn't much different than alot of other things that college students encounter.
For example professor requires you to buy the 2009 version of a text book instead of the 2007 version because one chapter was changed. You now have to spend $120 on the new book instead of getting a used version for $60. Kicker is that the professor wrote the book, or knows the guy that wrote it, and is just using you to increase his compensation. How about requiring freshman to have a meal plan, I don't know if this is still done, eventhough that person is disgusted by the slop served at the dining hall and does not eat there. How often did anyone use the health center at tech??? I know I only went once in 5 years and yet I paid my health fees.
When it all boils down, the average graduate student is there on student loans and the extra couple hundred bucks in fees is not going to change his decision or alter his life or cause him financial hardship as he pays it back.

 

[lonestarjacket]

It is a free market. If a team can generate the revenue to pay these coaches obscene amounts, then who are we to say otherwise. College football is already structured like Major League baseball, to where certain programs(New York Yankees/Boston Red Socks) are always on the top and rarely can other lower market teams compete(KC Royals). Just because smaller market team shout "this isn't fair!" doesn't mean a change should be made. If their fans are not willing to talk with the check book then they should not speak at all. Unfortunately, we are a medium market team, which doesn't bode well for the direction things are heading.

The problem is that it really isn't a "free market." It is a free market in some respects but not others which leads to open loop runaways.

It may be easier to put in some controls (like salary caps) than to make it a true "free market" and remove the monopolies that exist. (The NFL is a monopoly and so is MLB and the NBA.) Those monopolies agree to controls in order to maintain that monopoly.

The problem with letting it go to its logical conclusion is that all teams operating in pure self interest is ultimately counter-productive, because they ARE dependent on each other to a great extent but they don't willingly take that into account. (That is, it might help Coca-Cola to drive Pepsi out of business but it does not help the Yankees to drive the Red Sox out of business.)

I understand the reaction against controls, but I think they may be the most pragmatic answer rather than let the whole system collapse on itself and self-correct.

 

[gtphd]

I don't disagree with your point...but this is alot of whining for no good reason. Life isn't fair and alot of it sucks...get over it.

It's "no good reason" if it's something that can never be changed.

For example professor requires you to buy the 2009 version of a text book instead of the 2007 version because one chapter was changed. You now have to spend $120 on the new book instead of getting a used version for $60. Kicker is that the professor wrote the book, or knows the guy that wrote it, and is just using you to increase his compensation.

A professor can't require you to buy any version of a textbook, or any book at all. Most students these days buy international versions of books for less than $20.

If a professor writes a book and requires it's use in his class, he is obligated to waive his commission on the book.

How about requiring freshman to have a meal plan, I don't know if this is still done, eventhough that person is disgusted by the slop served at the dining hall and does not eat there.

Freshman were never required to have a meal plan. Those that chose to participate in Freshman experience were, but that was a choice and part of the program.

How often did anyone use the health center at tech??? I know I only went once in 5 years and yet I paid my health fees.

I agree on that point. Health services should not be mandatory. Charge a fee.

When it all boils down, the average graduate student is there on student loans and the extra couple hundred bucks in fees is not going to change his decision or alter his life or cause him financial hardship as he pays it back.

No, the average graduate student is not there on a loan. Most grad students are on a fellowship, and fellowships do not cover athletic fees, so they have to pay out of pocket. That's a lot of money for someone living below the poverty limit.

In addition, you have professional students (night students, executive MBA students, distance learning students) that will never attend a sporting event but still have to pay fees.

 

[mmbt0ne]

College coaches don't need a salary cap, they just need restrictions similar to the players on moving between schools while under contract.

The rest will sort itself out.

 

[DisplacedJacket]

tl;dr - college coaches make a boatload of money, what should be done about it?

Answer - nothing. Either the coaches are worth it and the school prospers or they aren't and the school suffers. In the end it will work itself out like free markets are supposed to if we leave it alone.

Move along.

 

[bellyseries]

tl;dr - college coaches make a boatload of money, what should be done about it?

Answer - nothing. Either the coaches are worth it and the school prospers or they aren't and the school suffers. In the end it will work itself out like free markets are supposed to if we leave it alone.

Move along.

Haven't we just concluded an experiment-on a world wide scale-showing that "free markets" don't work as they are supposed to?

 

[GTLiebs]

I think what people are misunderstanding about this is that the big schools with the ridiculously priced coaches, will financially be right as rain when all is said and done because, hey, they're the big schools and they got the money to be paying 4 million dollars for a coach, right?

My guess is that this stuff is running away from those schools as well, maybe not bombing the budget of their programs right away, but they can feel it coming.

 

[StingThing]

This is a 2007 number, but it's the most recent data I found......

The average price per WIN (just Head Coach salary) in every D-1A program is.......

$181,972

Something is wrong with that........

 

[cajunjacket]

Good LAWD that's a lot of money!!!