1st or 2d for 7 of past 11 years... a good measure?

18in32

18in32

Petard Hoister
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CPJ has stated several times that he is proud that GT has finished 1st or 2d in the Coastal for 7 of his 11 seasons.

2008 – 1st (tied with VT)
2009 – 1st
2010 – 3d
2011 – 2d (tied with UVA)
2012 – 1st (tied with Miami & UNC)
2013 – 2d (tied with Miami & VT)
2014 – 1st
2015 – 7th
2016 – 5th
2017 – 3d
2018 – 2d (tied with UVA, if they beat VT)

So my question is... what do you make of this measure?

Let's try (*try*) to abstract this away from the triple option or CPJ or recruiting or his personality or any of the other things we tend to get fixated on.

For any coach at GT, would finishing 1st or 2d in the Coastal 64% of the time be good or not?

(By way of comparison, UGA has finished 1st or 2d for 9 of the past 11 years in a fairly mediocre SEC East. They finished 1st 4x, same as us.)
 
It's a meaningful measure in my opinion as this is a measure of your primary competition year in and year out. The claim has lost a little luster over the past few years as GT finished 1st-2nd 6/7 from '08-'14, then 5th-7th '15-'16, but more respectable over the past two seasons.

The Coastal, actually the entire ACC at times, seems to be considered down/weaker/not as good when compared to other conferences other conference divisions -or at least it is implied. I feel like GT should be a Coastal upper-tier team year end and year out, and with exception to the injury-plagued '15 season and the disappointment of '16, we pretty much have been.

Four first place finishes is fine, although we've only had one over the past five seasons. This season stings a bit because if we beat Pitt, if we don't fall behind 21-0 at the half, we win the Coastal, but we didn't so we settle for 2nd.

I sometimes find myself feeling that GT has blown a few opportunities to win more division titles, play in more ACCCG's, play in better bowl games, finish with better records/rankings, etc, because we play in the ACC and we SHOULD be doing better. The fact is that most of our competition have good athletes, are capable of winning games, beating us, and achieving the things I just mentioned.
 
I think it's a b.s. stat because he (and Tech's SID) aren't resolving ties to the actual 2nd place finisher.
 
I think it's good. I think 2 more accg appearances would make it very good. In 2008, it was a close loss in Blacksburg that cost us. This year, it was a wet fart noise game at Pitt that cost us a shot at a wide-open division. Our great seasons have been great, but CPJ would probably have more cushion if our "good" years were "very good".
 
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18in32 said:
I don't know what that means.
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I think he means T-2 isn't really 2, because somebody won a head to head and/or other tiebreaker rules would resolve someone to 3rd place if applied.

I'm not sure I buy the importance of that, but I'm not sure I buy the importance of finishing in 2nd place to begin with. We've done that in 4 games so far this season, and I didn't find much value in it. I'm keeping an open mind, though.
 
Wikipedia only gives CPJ credit for 5 1st or 2nd place Coastal finishes because they factor tiebreakers in.
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
I think he means T-2 isn't really 2, because somebody won a head to head and/or other tiebreaker rules would resolve someone to 3rd place if applied.

I'm not sure I buy the importance of that, but I'm not sure I buy the importance of finishing in 2nd place to begin with. We've done that in 4 games so far this season, and I didn't find much value in it. I'm keeping an open mind, though.
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It matters to me only in a similar context of this thread. I don't view us as being 1st or 2nd 7 of 11 years in the Coastal in that sense. We've finished 1st: 3* times (* = 2012) and 2nd: 2 times.
 
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ElCidBUZZingFAN said:
It matters to me only in a similar context of this thread. I don't view us as being 1st or 2nd in 11 years in the Coastal in that sense. We've finished 1st: 3* times (* = 2012) and 2nd: 1 time.
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So you think "we" should get credit for finishing 1st in 2012? By tie-breaking rules I think we finish 3d there.
 
18in32 said:
Huh. Fair enough.

So what do you think a fair measure for GT success is?
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I think around that 50% ballpark figure of being in contention for an ACC championship (1st or 2nd in division) is pretty outstanding given what Tech is working with.
 
18in32 said:
So you think "we" should get credit for finishing 1st in 2012? By tie-breaking rules I think we finish 3d there.
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That's a tough one but sure we were the best of the eligible teams to win the division. I could be persuaded to think differently.
 
I think it’s a lame play out of Josh Pastners play book. That said, given our last 15 years on the flats, it’s probably a fair measure of Paul’s overall success.
 
It's a valid measure that should be taken into account with others when making a nuanced assessment of the CPJ era. Your efforts are appreciated.

Finishing first or second in the Coastal 64% of the time is good. But is good, good enough, for today's fan? It certainly keeps it interesting.
 
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