1st or 2d for 7 of past 11 years... a good measure?

ElCidBUZZingFAN said:
I think around that 50% ballpark figure of being in contention for an ACC championship (1st or 2nd in division) is pretty outstanding given what Tech is working with.
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OK, so on this measure and on balance, you're satisfied with CPJ's tenure. Fair enough.
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
I definitely do.
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I do too, but I don't understand why I do.

Presumably we should be judging CPJ based on whom we beat on the field. So giving him credit for 1st in 2012 (where he finishes 3d by tiebreaker) but not 2009 (where he finishes 2d by tiebreaker), is a little weird.

It's not like CPJ deserves any credit for Miami and UNC's strategic thinking vis-a-vis NCAA sanctions.
 
I wonder what it would be if only intra-division games counted for division winners. We’ve definitely been hampered by playing Clemson (although I never want to give up that game).
 
I think it's a reasonably good measure, especially considering the Clemson handicap.
 
18in32 said:
So you think "we" should get credit for finishing 1st in 2012? By tie-breaking rules I think we finish 3d there.
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I personally don't think we should. There should at least be a big * next to it. I've never met a Tech fan that points to 2012 with any pride whatsoever.

I also couldn't begin to care less about finishing 2nd in the Coastal, since that means approximately jack and shit. Look at this year - We absolutely should've walked to the ACC-CG. It's the worst Coastal in memory (or since 2012) and we weren't worse than Puke nor PITT IMO.

I mean, it's better than a thump on the balls but finishing 2nd isn't something to get too excited about, esp. in years where the Coastal is as weak as the 2018 version.
 
Before CPJ we lost to Florida state 12 straight, lost 11 out of 15 to Ugag, and we started being content with 7 win seasons and loosing to wake forest in ACC championship games with NFL talent....fire cpj clowns should be shot, we sucked before CPJ. At least now we're getting into the 21st century with facilities and uniforms and GT will be a lot better off for the next guy after CPJ retires here.
 
18in32 said:
I do too, but I don't understand why I do.

Presumably we should be judging CPJ based on whom we beat on the field. So giving him credit for 1st in 2012 (where he finishes 3d by tiebreaker) but not 2009 (where he finishes 2d by tiebreaker), is a little weird.

It's not like CPJ deserves any credit for Miami and UNC's strategic thinking vis-a-vis NCAA sanctions.
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I don't see why we should throw out the context. Miami and UNC made some choices to alter their competitive advantages that resulted in the need for strategic thinking vis-a-vis NCAA sanctions. Who knows whether CPJ would have beaten either or both of them if they'd not done those things. And while to a certain degree it's luck that they got caught and the capricious NCAA infractions committee's dice turned up "wrath" in some fateful sessions there, a pretty famous sports guy once said "you make your own luck." When Miami and UNC shut their doors and left it to the wider coastal, it wasn't VT or anybody else that went, it was us. And it wasn't because we flipped a coin, it's because of who we beat on the field. It's a legitimate win all day, in my book, and I'll take it and anything like it, should it come my way.
 
18in32 said:
CPJ has stated several times that he is proud that GT has finished 1st or 2d in the Coastal for 7 of his 11 seasons.

2008 – 1st (tied with VT)
2009 – 1st
2010 – 3d
2011 – 2d (tied with UVA)
2012 – 1st (tied with Miami & UNC)
2013 – 2d (tied with Miami & VT)
2014 – 1st
2015 – 7th
2016 – 5th
2017 – 3d
2018 – 2d (tied with UVA, if they beat VT)

So my question is... what do you make of this measure?

Let's try (*try*) to abstract this away from the triple option or CPJ or recruiting or his personality or any of the other things we tend to get fixated on.

For any coach at GT, would finishing 1st or 2d in the Coastal 64% of the time be good or not?

(By way of comparison, UGA has finished 1st or 2d for 9 of the past 11 years in a fairly mediocre SEC East. They finished 1st 4x, same as us.)
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I suppose the answer depends on the results of the uga and bowl games.
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
I don't see why we should throw out the context. Miami and UNC made some choices to alter their competitive advantages that resulted in the need for strategic thinking vis-a-vis NCAA sanctions. Who knows whether CPJ would have beaten either or both of them if they'd not done those things. And while to a certain degree it's luck that they got caught and the capricious NCAA infractions committee's dice turned up "wrath" in some fateful sessions there, a pretty famous sports guy once said "you make your own luck." When Miami and UNC shut their doors and left it to the wider coastal, it wasn't VT or anybody else that went, it was us. And it wasn't because we flipped a coin, it's because of who we beat on the field. It's a legitimate win all day, in my book, and I'll take it and anything like it, should it come my way.
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I'm not willing to give NCAA investigations much merit. I still claim the 2009 championship. (And a victory over Iowa, too, BTW.)
 
18in32 said:
I'm not willing to give NCAA investigations much merit. I still claim the 2009 championship. (And a victory over Iowa, too, BTW.)
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I claim the 2009 championship as well, but not the result of the 2009 UGA game.

I have impressive mental flexibility.

But in all seriousness, I don't place any weight on anything the NCAA does, you may have gleaned from our previous passing mentions of it. In the end, we played in the championship game in both 2009 and 2012 and that's what counts. I saw both games and derived all of the value out of them that they could possibly provide. NCAA hypotheticals can't change history one way any more than they can the other.
 
18in32 said:
CPJ has stated several times that he is proud that GT has finished 1st or 2d in the Coastal for 7 of his 11 seasons.

2008 – 1st (tied with VT)
2009 – 1st
2010 – 3d
2011 – 2d (tied with UVA)
2012 – 1st (tied with Miami & UNC)
2013 – 2d (tied with Miami & VT)
2014 – 1st
2015 – 7th
2016 – 5th
2017 – 3d
2018 – 2d (tied with UVA, if they beat VT)

So my question is... what do you make of this measure?

Let's try (*try*) to abstract this away from the triple option or CPJ or recruiting or his personality or any of the other things we tend to get fixated on.

For any coach at GT, would finishing 1st or 2d in the Coastal 64% of the time be good or not?

(By way of comparison, UGA has finished 1st or 2d for 9 of the past 11 years in a fairly mediocre SEC East. They finished 1st 4x, same as us.)
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How can you say "fairly mediocre SEC East" in the same breath as crowing about tying for second in the Coastal?
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
I claim the 2009 championship as well, but not the result of the 2009 UGA game.

I have impressive mental flexibility.

But in all seriousness, I don't place any weight on anything the NCAA does, you may have gleaned from our previous passing mentions of it. In the end, we played in the championship game in both 2009 and 2012 and that's what counts. I saw both games and derived all of the value out of them that they could possibly provide. NCAA hypotheticals can't change history one way any more than they can the other.
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Sure, I agree with that. But CPJ definitely deserves more credit for the 2009 ACCCG appearance than he does for the 2012 ACCCG appearance. And ITT I'm asking about how much credit CPJ deserves, not how much value I derived from the ACCCG appearances.
 
We acquitted ourselves well in both the 2012 and 2014 ACC title games. Certainly way better than the Hokies of 2011 (38-10 L) Duke of 2013 (45 to 7 L) and Miami last year (38-3 L).

We have nothing to apologize for in that regard.

For more perspective:

Beginning with 2008, Virginia Tech is the only other Coastal team to go to the ACCCG more than once. They have been 4 times and we have been 3. The Coastal hasn't produced an ACC champion since 2010 (vpi) In the Atlantic, Clemson has been to the ACCCG 6 times and FSU 4
 
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Yukonwreck said:
How can you say "fairly mediocre SEC East" in the same breath as crowing about tying for second in the Coastal?
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You can't read so good if you think I'm crowing about tying for second in the Coastal. If anything just the opposite.

Very frustrating.
 
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18in32 said:
Sure, I agree with that. But CPJ definitely deserves more credit for the 2009 ACCCG appearance than he does for the 2012 ACCCG appearance. And ITT I'm asking about how much credit CPJ deserves, not how much value I derived from the ACCCG appearances.
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Well if it isn't clear, I'm saying those answers are the same. CPJ gets credit/blame purely for the quality of the product on the field, and the quality of the product on the field is purely the value I derive from it.
 
I'd be proud of it in the same way that I'm proud of having sex with a woman instead of having sex with a toaster.
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
Well if it isn't clear, I'm saying those answers are the same. CPJ gets credit/blame purely for the quality of the product on the field, and the quality of the product on the field is purely the value I derive from it.
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That's in the same vein as "You are what your record says you are." I definitely agree. But I also think there's more to the analysis, depending on the purpose of the analysis.
 
I think marketing your accomplishments is part of the head coach's job and I work in marketing so I know exactly what he's doing and I'm not mad about it. So of course he's going to say "finished 1st or 2d in the Coastal for 7 of his 11 seasons" rather than we finished 1st some, 2nd some and 3rd or 4th some. When he beats uga in Athens, of course he's going to say "I'm 4-2 in Athens", not 4-6 overall. It's marketing. Recruits listen to this shit.
 
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