A Talk with Campus Leaders

[gtzulu]

Maybe instead of changing GT to fit the interests of football players, we should try to change the interests of football players to fit GT. Kids should WANT to go to GT and be engineers. We could do more outreach programs to get Atlanta city kids, etc. into engineering at a young age. Engineering is an important field that is very personally and financially rewarding. And athletic talent does not have to be inversely proportional to engineering aptitude/interest. Imagine if we got the BEST talent because they wanted to go to the BEST engineering school with a football program. Who is going to compete with us? It is not an impossible dream--have some courage.

 

[andrew]

Maybe instead of changing GT to fit the interests of football players, we should try to change the interests of football players to fit GT. Kids should WANT to go to GT and be engineers. We could do more outreach programs to get Atlanta city kids, etc. into engineering at a young age. Engineering is an important field that is very personally and financially rewarding. And athletic talent does not have to be inversely proportional to engineering aptitude/interest. Imagine if we got the BEST talent because they wanted to go to the BEST engineering school with a football program. Who is going to compete with us? It is not an impossible dream--have some courage.

This is a serious thread, let's try to keep the jokes to out of it.

 

[QuadF]

 

[GT1992]

Good point '92, but I interpret our AA mission statement ref to competing at the highest level, to mean we not only schedule at the highest level, but we are also competitive at said highest level. We get a chance to do that even in the ACC vs the 2 or 3 best teams in it any given year, plus ugag and the bowl game. This grouping ain't been going so well for us.

Don't you think Rice's AA has a similiar mission statement? To be honest, just playing in the ACC doesn't allow us to compete at the highest level in FBS football. Our OOC schedule, beyond UGA, is a joke.

 

[GoldZ]

Apparently not.


Mission Statement
Mission of Rice Athletics
• In support of the educational mission of Rice University.
• Our mission is to guide and support Rice students in the pursuit
of excellence – academically, athletically, and socially.
• Above all else, we produce difference-makers.
Guiding Principles of Rice Athletics
Five principles guide and govern our actions at all times and in our affairs.
They define “what we stand for” and “what we won’t stand for.” They include:
1. Respect
We treat ourselves and those we serve with dignity, kindness,
and respect.
2. Positive Attitude
We are forward-thinking. We approach our challenges and
opportunities with a positive attitude. We enjoy what we do.
3. Focus
We are focused on prioritizing and completing what’s most important.
We have a stong work ethic.
4. Accountability
We set clear performance standards and are personally accountable
for our actions.
We know that we are an important part of a great team.
5. Continuous Improvement
We are always looking for innovative and efficient ways to get things
accomplished.

 

[lonestarjacket]

The only reason they don't contend at the highest level anymore is that they were shuffled out when the Big 8 and SWC were merged. They played big boy football until that happened and they ended up in the WAC or something. Kind of like when we left the SEC and became and afterthought. We would still be not pretending to compete at the highest level if the ACC hadn't picked us up.

Highest level = f(conference affiliation)

Uh, yeah.

But there is a reason we are in the ACC and did not remain independent. It was not an accident that happened. We sought it out; worked to make it happen.

Rice has no interest in joining a BCS conference. It bounces around from WAC to Conference USA or wherever it can latch to get consistent funding. There is no pressure to contend at the highest level ever.

Contrast to Boise State that is always trying to jockey for a slot in a higher level conference.

And the correlation with conference even is not perfect. Vandy is content with its role in the SEC as fluttering between mediocre to bad over the years. They still get a share and will not voluntarily leave, but if they get kicked out they would not work hard to get back in a BCS conference.

 

[gtzulu]

This is a serious thread, let's try to keep the jokes to out of it.

 

[GT1992]

Uh, yeah.

But there is a reason we are in the ACC and did not remain independent. It was not an accident that happened. We sought it out; worked to make it happen.

Rice has no interest in joining a BCS conference. It bounces around from WAC to Conference USA or wherever it can latch to get consistent funding. There is no pressure to contend at the highest level ever.

Contrast to Boise State that is always trying to jockey for a slot in a higher level conference.

And the correlation with conference even is not perfect. Vandy is content with its role in the SEC as fluttering between mediocre to bad over the years. They still get a share and will not voluntarily leave, but if they get kicked out they would not work hard to get back in a BCS conference.

Rice wanted to go to the Big XII, but their problem is that they are one of about 10 Texas D-1 schools and it's small (6,000 students total). It just doesn't have much going for it. To say they're not trying to play big time football is simply not true. We only approached the ACC because there was an opening when South Carolina left. Otherwise, we would be in CUSA with Rice. They are geographically hampered as well with the Big XII being the only big conference around.

Vanderbilt is twice the size, is in the footprint of two major conferences, and hasn't had their major conference fold. A completely different situation. And why does Vandy fire coaches if they're just playing along for a paycheck?

Boise is just desparate. I doubt they play a down in the Big East. They have the problem of being in a small state/market. Bouncing around minor conferences is not a sign of trying to move up.

 

[lonestarjacket]

Rice wanted to go to the Big XII, but their problem is that they are one of about 10 Texas D-1 schools and it's small (6,000 students total). It just doesn't have much going for it. To say they're not trying to play big time football is simply not true. We only approached the ACC because there was an opening when South Carolina left. Otherwise, we would be in CUSA with Rice. They are geographically hampered as well with the Big XII being the only big conference around.

Vanderbilt is twice the size, is in the footprint of two major conferences, and hasn't had their major conference fold. A completely different situation. And why does Vandy fire coaches if they're just playing along for a paycheck?

Boise is just desparate. I doubt they play a down in the Big East. They have the problem of being in a small state/market. Bouncing around minor conferences is not a sign of trying to move up.

Not to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen: but I know Rice; I graduated from Rice; I actually go to Rice games and attend alumni events. You don't know what you are writing about.

We joined the ACC EIGHT YEARS after South Carolina left. It was not exactly a reactive response. But even that point is moot.

We joined the ACC because, other than Notre Dame, conference membership was necessary for financial survival. We could have joined a lesser conference more quickly and with less work if we were content, as schools like Rice are, with competing on a perpetually lower scale.

Rice plays basketball in a gym smaller than many large high schools and has no dreams of ever expanding the football stadium, ever.

That does not mean they will never fire a coach, but they won't fire a coach who has winning seasons more than losing seasons. The goals are quite modest.

P.S.
The point about Vandy is they are where they are due to SEC membership, like you said. But they are not "All In" as other schools are. It is a moot point unless they are ever forcefully expelled. But if that happened I am convinced they would settle into a similar existence as Rice.
Rice was elevated above its station all its years in the SWC, just like Vandy in the SEC. Once it lost that benefit, it did not work frantically to move up the ranks of conferences like TCU. It did not work all its political advocates like Baylor to make sure it was part of the Big 12 along with Texas and A&M.
Rice is content to compete at about the same level as the service academies forever.

 

[texstinger]

Not to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen: but I know Rice; I graduated from Rice; I actually go to Rice games and attend alumni events. You don't know what you are writing about.

We joined the ACC EIGHT YEARS after South Carolina left. It was not exactly a reactive response. But even that point is moot.

We joined the ACC because, other than Notre Dame, conference membership was necessary for financial survival. We could have joined a lesser conference more quickly and with less work if we were content, as schools like Rice are, with competing on a perpetually lower scale.

Rice plays basketball in a gym smaller than many large high schools and has no dreams of ever expanding the football stadium, ever.

That does not mean they will never fire a coach, but they won't fire a coach who has winning seasons more than losing seasons. The goals are quite modest.

P.S.
The point about Vandy is they are where they are due to SEC membership, like you said. But they are not "All In" as other schools are. It is a moot point unless they are ever forcefully expelled. But if that happened I am convinced they would settle into a similar existence as Rice.
Rice was elevated above its station all its years in the SWC, just like Vandy in the SEC. Once it lost that benefit, it did not work frantically to move up the ranks of conferences like TCU. It did not work all its political advocates like Baylor to make sure it was part of the Big 12 along with Texas and A&M.
Rice is content to compete at about the same level as the service academies forever.

Well, if I remember, the Rice stadium is huge, is it not? No reason to consider expansion. I think a Super bowl was played there.

I believe the Rice baseball team is one of the best in the country.

But I am very thankful we did not go the way of Rice or Tulane starting in the late 60's to 70's

 

[BuzzMD]

Well, if I remember, the Rice stadium is huge, is it not? No reason to consider expansion. I think a Super bowl was played there.

I believe the Rice baseball team is one of the best in the country.

But I am very thankful we did not go the way of Rice or Tulane starting in the late 60's to 70's

You are correct. The stadium is huge. However, the crowds are not -- about 13k or so for average attendance.

 

[lonestarjacket]

You are correct. The stadium is huge. However, the crowds are not -- about 13k or so for average attendance.

Yes but you can always find a good seat. They don't enforce seating much unless someone complains.

Capacity was 70K for the Super Bowl, but facilities are about the same as from that 1974 Super Bowl. The end zone seats were removed to reduce capacity to 47K but it still looks empty. Bathrooms and concessions are ancient.

Shared history with GT includes John Heisman ( but he lost at Rice ) and Homer Rice, ironically. ( I did not know Homer Rice coached there for a season. )

 

[GT1992]

Not to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen: but I know Rice; I graduated from Rice; I actually go to Rice games and attend alumni events. You don't know what you are writing about.

We joined the ACC EIGHT YEARS after South Carolina left. It was not exactly a reactive response. But even that point is moot.

We joined the ACC because, other than Notre Dame, conference membership was necessary for financial survival. We could have joined a lesser conference more quickly and with less work if we were content, as schools like Rice are, with competing on a perpetually lower scale.

Rice plays basketball in a gym smaller than many large high schools and has no dreams of ever expanding the football stadium, ever.

That does not mean they will never fire a coach, but they won't fire a coach who has winning seasons more than losing seasons. The goals are quite modest.

P.S.
The point about Vandy is they are where they are due to SEC membership, like you said. But they are not "All In" as other schools are. It is a moot point unless they are ever forcefully expelled. But if that happened I am convinced they would settle into a similar existence as Rice.
Rice was elevated above its station all its years in the SWC, just like Vandy in the SEC. Once it lost that benefit, it did not work frantically to move up the ranks of conferences like TCU. It did not work all its political advocates like Baylor to make sure it was part of the Big 12 along with Texas and A&M.
Rice is content to compete at about the same level as the service academies forever.

And what I was trying to get across is that it isn't by choice where they are now. If we were 6,000 total students and the tenth or eleventh FBS school in our state, we would be in exactly the same situation without a major conference. No matter how hard we would try, we would be relegated to considering CUSA to be a step up. They didn't work their way up because they simply can't, not because they don't try as they have in the past when the opportunity is there. Who knows, if the Big XII loses some more members and they get desparate like they did with TCU (9500 students) or Baylor (12,000 students) and I'd bet that Rice would jump at the opportunity to play with the big boys again. But I'd bet that they go after the University of Houston's 40,000 students first.

I just don't think they have a choice in today's environment while we do simply by being in the ACC, not being in a state with a dozen FBS teams, and having grown the school from the 10,000 students it had while I was there. I really think Wake and Duke try to compete. Wake's won as many ACCCG's as we have and Vandy's competing in a much tougher conference.

What's sad is I'm defending your school. Bad Owl.

 

[hiveredtech]

I really think Wake and Duke try to compete. Wake's won as many ACCCG's as we have and Vandy's competing in a much tougher conference.

LOL...are you really trying to say Wake has been as successful in ACC football as GT? Its not even close.

Since 2000:
- only 6 of the 12 ACC teams have won the conference at all.
- there has only been an ACCCG since 2005....7 of the 12 have not won one...and we are one of only 6 teams to even play in an ACCCG.
- GT is 1 of only 3 teams to be in 3 or more of the 8 ACCCG's. Even Clemson has only been twice.

Since conf. expansion in 2004:
- GT is second in wins over this period with 41.
- the only team in the ACC with more wins than GT is VaTech with 53.
- Maryland, North Carolina, NCSt, Virginia, Duke, and Wake Forest have not even been able to hit the 30 mark in wins during this time. FSU and Clemson are still 3 win's behind us with 38.
- The Wake Forest you are comparing us to has 28 wins.

 

[ThisIsAtlanta]

Vandy has not beaten a single team that finished the regular season with a winning record this year. Three of their opponents midseason combined, including 2 SEC teams, barely got 6 wins (Auburn 3-9, UMASS 1-11, Kentucky 2-10) and didn't have a single AQ win. Arguably the most impressive win among those three teams was Kentucky's win over Kent State.

I'm not saying we've done any better than they have, but looking at their team this year and seeing competitive football is a bit of a stretch, IMO.

 

[hiveredtech]

Vandy has not beaten a single team that finished the regular season with a winning record this year. Three of their opponents midseason combined, including 2 SEC teams, barely got 6 wins (Auburn 3-9, UMASS 1-11, Kentucky 2-10) and didn't have a single AQ win. Arguably the most impressive win among those three teams was Kentucky's win over Kent State.

I'm not saying we've done any better than they have, but looking at their team this year and seeing competitive football is a bit of a stretch, IMO.

Great points.

Vandy only had 3 SEC wins over the previous 3 seasons combined coming into this year.

This year they had an easy schedule (have it again next year) where they had ZERO victories against teams without a losing record. At least we had two win's against teams without a losing record including UNC at 8-4.

Regarding the opponents records..Vandy's opponents won 48% of their games this year while GT's won 55%.

Franklin has done a good job of providing some energy to the program...even though he is a big turd...but there are a lot of coaches out there that do this the first couple of years. He will leverage next years easy schedule to get a big contract somewhere else.

 

[GT1992]

LOL...are you really trying to say Wake has been as successful in ACC football as GT? Its not even close.

Since 2000:
- only 6 of the 12 ACC teams have won the conference at all.
- there has only been an ACCCG since 2005....7 of the 12 have not won one...and we are one of only 6 teams to even play in an ACCCG.
- GT is 1 of only 3 teams to be in 3 or more of the 8 ACCCG's. Even Clemson has only been twice.

Since conf. expansion in 2004:
- GT is second in wins over this period with 41.
- the only team in the ACC with more wins than GT is VaTech with 53.
- Maryland, North Carolina, NCSt, Virginia, Duke, and Wake Forest have not even been able to hit the 30 mark in wins during this time. FSU and Clemson are still 3 win's behind us with 38.
- The Wake Forest you are comparing us to has 28 wins.

So the fact that they have an ACC title doesn't mean they are trying? You are completly ignoring the point. They are a small school with limited resources. That's why they suck, not from the effort.

 

[hiveredtech]

So the fact that they have an ACC title doesn't mean they are trying? You are completly ignoring the point. They are a small school with limited resources. That's why they suck, not from the effort.

Of course they are trying. That have even more stacked against them than we do.

I actually love Wake...they are my 2nd favorite college to root for in all sports.

 

[GT1992]

Of course they are trying. That have even more stacked against them than we do.

I actually love Wake...they are my 2nd favorite college to root for in all sports.

That's what started this. There was an assertion that Rice and Vandy aren't trying. They are, just like Wake and Duke.. And just like Rice, they get shuffled out if the ACC goes down.