A Talk with Campus Leaders

gtphd said:
This is one thing I've never understood. Why aren't all of the athletes taking Calc, CS, and he other "hard" requirements at GPC? Is it not allowed by some NCAA guideline? It's not like they need a rigorous Calculus or CS background to major in management.
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They would have to pay for it, so maybe they can't afford it.
 
gtphd said:
This is one thing I've never understood. Why aren't all of the athletes taking Calc, CS, and he other "hard" requirements at GPC? Is it not allowed by some NCAA guideline? It's not like they need a rigorous Calculus or CS background to major in management.
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I believe most of them do. people working in the AA have told me they try to get them do it for calc. i don't think gpc offers a comparable intro to cs class.
 
lonestarjacket said:
Why not offer conditional exceptions? ( Actually, I think this would be a good rule across the NCAA. )

What I mean is that all exceptions for all schools would be ineligible to play as true freshmen, mandatory redshirts. If they pass criteria of progress towards a degree with decent grades after that first year then they are eligible to play.

I see no reason not to allow school/team officials to give players the benefit of the doubt on acceptance if they are held accountable for the success record of those exceptions. There would be no incentive for them to let in anyone who obviously can't hack it as they would never get to play.

You could even make the performance criteria for non-playing freshman exceptions higher than other freshmen to continue with the team.
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They used to do this. They were called partial qualifiers and schools like UGA hated it because the criminal system kept them from ever hitting the field.
 
GT1992 said:
They used to do this. They were called partial qualifiers and schools like UGA hated it because the criminal system kept them from ever hitting the field.
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Not quite sure where you are going with that. The ugag football teambis made up of almost 75% exceptions.
 
lonestarjacket said:
Why not offer conditional exceptions? ( Actually, I think this would be a good rule across the NCAA. ).
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The only players that would accept conditional admission are the ones with no similar offer. Teams won't take chances on students like that.
 
KrazieJacket said:
Not quite sure where you are going with that. The ugag football teambis made up of almost 75% exceptions.
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There used to be an NCAA rule that didn't allow everyone to be eligible as a freshmen. The big guys hated it because players who could be eligible for a time were forced to redshirt and many failed due to academic and legal issues.
 
GT1992 said:
I wasn't incorrect. We had problems (flunkgate) in the past and I had seen someone say that the support department struggled and mentioned that. I did not assert that they were failing only that if they were, they needed to be removed. With that kind of graduation rate, it would appear they're doing fine with academic caliber of students we're letting in. The question would be could they support more lesser students? If so, Johnson has a very good argument for asking for additional exceptions and I don't see how the Hill could refuse the request given the track record.
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'92, again, remove flunkgate from your thinking and you will have a more accurate view of exceptions. The "support" environment then is the absolute opposite of what people supporting more exceptions today, are suggesting. The Hill resists this because they do not accept the notion that the football program is important, damned important, to the overall welfare of the school. This in spite of the fact that the other 125 D-1 programs have done so. There's being unique and proud of it, and then there's being closed minded dumb, and apparently proud of it.
 
GoldZ said:
'92, again, remove flunkgate from your thinking and you will have a more accurate view of exceptions. The "support" environment then is the absolute opposite of what people supporting more exceptions today, are suggesting. The Hill resists this because they do not accept the notion that the football program is important, damned important, to the overall welfare of the school. This in spite of the fact that the other 125 D-1 programs have done so. There's being unique and proud of it, and then there's being closed minded dumb, and apparently proud of it.
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I have said this before on here...our football staff will tell you that the # of exceptions allowed is not the problem as they prefer not to use them anyway...the biggest thing that hurts them is the lack of expansive curriculum to meet the interests of an athlete that is also a good student. If you are a good student...you care about what you major in. For instance, this is a reason they have lost recruits to Stanford.

The reality is that the NCAA ever strengthening APR that started in 2004 requires high levels of graduations rates or you lose scholarships....the grad rate calculation does not care if you major in electrical engineering or P.E.

another note on exceptions...our minimum standard for an exception is a lot higher than the ncaa minimum for acceptance anyway.
 
GoldZ said:
The Hill resists this because they do not accept the notion that the football program is important, damned important, to the overall welfare of the school.
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Who with any authority on "The Hill" is actively anti-football? I haven't met any. On the other hand, I know several people who believe (rightly so) that the vast majority of students offered exceptions are setup to fail at GT with extensive support, and that the current GTAA support system is insufficient to handle more than a few exceptions per year.
 
gtphd said:
Who with any authority on "The Hill" is actively anti-football? I haven't met any. On the other hand, I know several people who believe (rightly so) that the vast majority of students offered exceptions are setup to fail at GT with extensive support, and that the current GTAA support system is insufficient to handle more than a few exceptions per year.
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I knew several professors that resented athletes and didn't like having them in their classroom.
 
gtphd said:
Who with any authority on "The Hill" is actively anti-football? I haven't met any. On the other hand, I know several people who believe (rightly so) that the vast majority of students offered exceptions are setup to fail at GT with extensive support, and that the current GTAA support system is insufficient to handle more than a few exceptions per year.
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Did you ever meet Carole Moore, and her boss and her bosses boss? The very low limit on exceptions doesn't come out of thin air. Do our team's SATs just happen to average among the highest in D-1? If the term The Hill is incorrect, then sub Admin for it.
 
GoldZ said:
Did you ever meet Carole Moore, and her boss and her bosses boss? The very low limit on exceptions doesn't come out of thin air. Do our team's SATs just happen to average among the highest in D-1?
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On the other hand, you could flip that and point out that the gap between our team's SATs and their school's average SATs is one of the highest in the nation.

If the Hill were truly anti-football (as opposed to not pro-football at the expense of anything which could harm academics), that would be a very easy issue to press and raise the standards of admission for football players.
 
hiveredtech said:
I have said this before on here...our football staff will tell you that the # of exceptions allowed is not the problem as they prefer not to use them anyway...the biggest thing that hurts them is the lack of expansive curriculum to meet the interests of an athlete that is also a good student. If you are a good student...you care about what you major in. For instance, this is a reason they have lost recruits to Stanford.

The reality is that the NCAA ever strengthening APR that started in 2004 requires high levels of graduations rates or you lose scholarships....the grad rate calculation does not care if you major in electrical engineering or P.E.

another note on exceptions...our minimum standard for an exception is a lot higher than the ncaa minimum for acceptance anyway.
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It's this higher anyway minimum standard that most who suggest exceptions believe should be lowered in a limited number of cases--i.e. 6 instead of 1 or 2 per class. I very rarely see suggestions to take on kids at the NCAA minimum. I very often see however, how we are 4-5 starters away from even pretending to meet the AA's mission statement.

As for your stated position of the coaches, I can certainly see the point on curriculum choices, however let's all of us and the coaches be very clear on one thing---our historical exceptions ARE the basis for a great deal of GT's on the field success---period. Otherwise we are RICE. There is no crystal trophy on display and no TIAR without em.
 
andrew said:
On the other hand, you could flip that and point out that the gap between our team's SATs and their school's average SATs is one of the highest in the nation.

If the Hill were truly anti-football (as opposed to not pro-football at the expense of anything which could harm academics), that would be a very easy issue to press and raise the standards of admission for football players.
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I believe 250-300 point gaps on the 1600 scale are common, and as for the anti-Hill issue, I'm not now, nor have I ever been in support of, a complete ugag style wholesale sell out.
 
GoldZ said:
I believe 250-300 point gaps on the 1600 scale are common, and as for the anti-Hill issue, I'm not now, nor have I ever been in support of, a complete ugag style wholesale sell out.
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Data was last released in 08. It's more like 200 to 250 commonly, and ours are pushing 400. It's a significant difference, and I expect it's probably higher now as I believe our average incoming sat score has gone up (could be wrong on this, on phone.)

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2008/12/admission_qualifications.html?mobRedir=false

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