A Talk with Campus Leaders

When will Tech start offering these classes?!?!

In just 10 days, academically deficient players could earn three credits and an easy “A” from Western Oklahoma State College for courses like “Microcomputer Applications” (opening folders in Windows) or “Nutrition” (stating whether or not the students used vitamins). The Chronicle quoted one Big Ten academic adviser as saying, “You jump online, finish in a week and half, get your grade posted, and you’re bowl-eligible.”
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/10/opinion/who-will-hold-colleges-accountable.html
 
andrew said:
This is like the war on drugs. Instead of just ending the charade and not making players go to class, they'll keep on spending money and time trying to enforce the "student" part of "student athlete" with the only result being courses like these.
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Fortunately, Georgia Tech has a pretty hard line on accepting online courses as transfer credit. There's something like online math courses can only be accepted for transfer credit if the exams were taken on paper and supervised by someone from the credit-granting department (i.e., not GTAA staff).
 
andrew said:
This is like the war on drugs. Instead of just ending the charade and not making players go to class, they'll keep on spending money and time trying to enforce the "student" part of "student athlete" with the only result being courses like these.
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What I found most interesting about the article is that there is a movement to "weigh" credit hours. E.g. Currently Calc III at Tech and Nutrition at uga both receive 3 credit hours. It would be useful to the real world to have some kind of formula that weighs the relative difficulty of each class so its true value is deciphered. For example, Calc III might be rated a 78 (on a scale of 100) and Nutrition a 38, then we would have some kind of objective way to measure the difficulty of course loads. Although this may be bad for Tech's ego if we find out our athletes are actually taking EASY classes, and we are still recruiting poorly.
 
andrew said:
This is like the war on drugs. Instead of just ending the charade and not making players go to class, they'll keep on spending money and time trying to enforce the "student" part of "student athlete" with the only result being courses like these.
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The difference between this and the war on drugs is that the government (mostly state) owns the vast majority of supply.

To me, the solution is pretty clear:

To qualify for federal student loan grants, a school must meet a certain employment rate / salary level (i.e. the school must result in a meaningful increase in employment potential over simply seeking a job after high school).

With that policy, you effectively let the free market decide which schools are worthwhile. Employers are smart enough to pick up on a school that offers worthless classes and discount students from those schools.

State-run, 2-year colleges would always be eligible for federal loans as long as they maintain accreditation.
 
ND_jacket said:
Fortunately, Georgia Tech has a pretty hard line on accepting online courses as transfer credit. There's something like online math courses can only be accepted for transfer credit if the exams were taken on paper and supervised by someone from the credit-granting department (i.e., not GTAA staff).
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To be able to transfer in, you also have to demonstrate that the course material matches the material in a course at Tech. So unless there's a class at Tech that gives credit for being able to open a file in Windows, you can't transfer that in.

I'm not really sure how the NCAA rules work, though. Is the current system based purely on credits or do they specifically have to be credits towards graduation?
 
Also, what would happen if GT had a dual degree with another school? Let's say Tech offered Sports Movement (or some other degree) where the material was primarily taught at GSU with the end result being a BS in Sports Movement from GSU and an undesignated BS from GT, would that qualify? That could be a selling point: the major you want, two degrees, two alumni associations.

I know that GT doesn't currently award undesignated BS degrees, but I'm trying to think outside the box. Also, GSU probably wouldn't take too kindly to another Division I school using their programs to attract s-a's, but it wouldn't be an athlete only situation, and you could have several majors like that useful to the state (BS in Education from GSU + BS in Science or Engineering from GT, etc). We already have joint degrees with other schools (Spelman, Morehouse, Agnes Scott, the other GSU).
 
gtphd said:
Also, what would happen if GT had a dual degree with another school? Let's say Tech offered Sports Movement (or some other degree) where the material was primarily taught at GSU with the end result being a BS in Sports Movement from GSU and an undesignated BS from GT, would that qualify? That could be a selling point: the major you want, two degrees, two alumni associations.

I know that GT doesn't currently award undesignated BS degrees, but I'm trying to think outside the box. Also, GSU probably wouldn't take too kindly to another Division I school using their programs to attract s-a's, but it wouldn't be an athlete only situation, and you could have several majors like that useful to the state (BS in Education from GSU + BS in Science or Engineering from GT, etc). We already have joint degrees with other schools (Spelman, Morehouse, Agnes Scott, the other GSU).
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I know there is a dual PhD in Pub Pol between GT and GSU - that's where they should build something at the BS level. I seem to remember Bud talked about wanting to expand the Pub Pol program.
 
BarrelORum said:
GT Football is being slowly killed. Believe it or you're just a sucker.
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I think you're being a bit hyperbolic and our fans are now the product of the 16 straight bowl games, but with how many wins? How many let downs? How many let downs against our rival? Tech has existed in this space between "bad" and "good" and it has become exhausting - not quite bad --- but not actually good. Theoretically it seems these were supposed to be good times, but when the team finishes 0-3 year after year, it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.
 
JacketFan77 said:
I know there is a dual PhD in Pub Pol between GT and GSU - that's where they should build something at the BS level. I seem to remember Bud talked about wanting to expand the Pub Pol program.
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Bud and I spoke a few months after he was hired and that's where he wanted to go (be the leader in digital public policy, specializing on things like digital copyrights). I don't know if that took off or not.

I'm not sure if a joint Public Policy program would be that attractive to athletes, but programs like Sports Movement (Kinesiology) and Sports Management are big hits for athletes at other schools.

Those seem like areas where we can offer dual degree programs without watering down GT's academics, without needing BoR approval (I think), and without significant cost investment.

If you throw in things like dual degree Engineering - Education programs and dual engineering - pre-law programs, you would probably get considerable support from the state.
 
gtphd said:
but programs like Sports Movement (Kinesiology) and Sports Management are big hits for athletes at other schools.
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I think a lot of folks have been saying this for a while now. There is no reason why Tech shouldn't be doing something in the area of Sports Medicine and Technology and/or Sports Management through the School of Management.
 
Valdosta_Jacket said:
What I found most interesting about the article is that there is a movement to "weigh" credit hours. E.g. Currently Calc III at Tech and Nutrition at uga both receive 3 credit hours. It would be useful to the real world to have some kind of formula that weighs the relative difficulty of each class so its true value is deciphered. For example, Calc III might be rated a 78 (on a scale of 100) and Nutrition a 38, then we would have some kind of objective way to measure the difficulty of course loads. Although this may be bad for Tech's ego if we find out our athletes are actually taking EASY classes, and we are still recruiting poorly.
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What is curious to me is that you consider this an "objective way to measure the difficulty of course loads." How is this not subjective? Because the opinion was expressed using a number?
 
gtphd said:
To be able to transfer in, you also have to demonstrate that the course material matches the material in a course at Tech. So unless there's a class at Tech that gives credit for being able to open a file in Windows, you can't transfer that in.

I'm not really sure how the NCAA rules work, though. Is the current system based purely on credits or do they specifically have to be credits towards graduation?
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You can almost always get free elective credit for courses that do not have a Tech equivalent, but that is not useful to many students.
 
gtphd said:
Also, what would happen if GT had a dual degree with another school? Let's say Tech offered Sports Movement (or some other degree) where the material was primarily taught at GSU with the end result being a BS in Sports Movement from GSU and an undesignated BS from GT, would that qualify? That could be a selling point: the major you want, two degrees, two alumni associations.

I know that GT doesn't currently award undesignated BS degrees, but I'm trying to think outside the box. Also, GSU probably wouldn't take too kindly to another Division I school using their programs to attract s-a's, but it wouldn't be an athlete only situation, and you could have several majors like that useful to the state (BS in Education from GSU + BS in Science or Engineering from GT, etc). We already have joint degrees with other schools (Spelman, Morehouse, Agnes Scott, the other GSU).
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Also with Emory for Biomedical Engineering:

http://www.bme.gatech.edu/

BME is really the only one that helps GT, but Emory students can take advantage of all Tech's engineering programs:

http://college.emory.edu/home/academic/program/major/engineering.html
 
18in32 said:
What is curious to me is that you consider this an "objective way to measure the difficulty of course loads." How is this not subjective? Because the opinion was expressed using a number?
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True, and I personally have a non-STEM undergrad degree, so my classes would probably be considered 'easier' than the maths, physics, etc. There will never be a truly objective system, but a change from the current credit hours charade should happen.
 
Regarding calculus, all a student has to do is to go take the class at one of the several University System of Georgia schools that are academically very easy, transfer the course in, and the requirement is done. Truly a piece of cake to get around this "hurdle."
Nothing short of amazing that classes at some Georgia colleges offer courses that are considered "academic equivalents" in the eyes of the University System of Georgia.
 
manjano mdudu said:
Regarding calculus, all a student has to do is to go take the class at one of the several University System of Georgia schools that are academically very easy, transfer the course in, and the requirement is done. Truly a piece of cake to get around this "hurdle."
Nothing short of amazing that classes at some Georgia colleges offer courses that are considered "academic equivalents" in the eyes of the University System of Georgia.
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Practice/conditioning/meetings/etc make it very, very difficult for athletes to take classes at other campuses from a time standpoint. Remember, these guys don't really get a summer break like everyone else.
 
a5ehren said:
Practice/conditioning/meetings/etc make it very, very difficult for athletes to take classes at other campuses from a time standpoint. Remember, these guys don't really get a summer break like everyone else.
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Good. Prevents the system from being abused too much.
 
manjano mdudu said:
Regarding calculus, all a student has to do is to go take the class at one of the several University System of Georgia schools that are academically very easy, transfer the course in, and the requirement is done. Truly a piece of cake to get around this "hurdle."
Nothing short of amazing that classes at some Georgia colleges offer courses that are considered "academic equivalents" in the eyes of the University System of Georgia.
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You put more effort into typing that post than students are willing to put into getting out of taking calculus here. It's not a question of whether it's possible or not, it's a question of effort.
 
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