AJ Green apologists

The benefits of being a student athlete on scholarship are insane. Many actually do get paid to go to school because the combination of scholarship money, HOPE in Georgia, and gov't grants actually gives them a net (+) income due to a refund check. Add to that the superior housing compared to regular students, superior training facilities and equipment, personal training and nutritionists as well as a sports medicine staff, free food and supplements, clothes, shoes, tutors that are paid by the school, and often admission and ultimately a degree to a school that without the athletics, they would not be accepted to.

Some student athletes are thankful and realize the benefits of the situation, yet these are not the same students who are being suspended by the NCAA. Those are the ones that feel entitled to all of the benefits and feel owed more.

This entitled confidence is the reason for the violations, IMO. This is controlled by the coaching staff, the school, and the peer leadership on the team.
 
ibeeballin said:
You guys are crazy if you think athletes shouldn't get paid. As I stated before, the millions of dollars these colleges making, atleast 5-10% should be allocated to the players. These athletes work more hours than all of you guys on this board. All I'm hearing from you guys is "well they get a free education". How much value is that degree if you don't have any work experience unlike your fellow classmates, especially in the job market today. Then you keep harping about how there should be playoff in college football. So you expect college kids to play 16-18 games, something they don't even do in the NFL, a not to get payed then either?
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You're an idiot. I mean that in the nicest possible way. Please go cheer for the team out in Athens.

If adults don't like playing by the rules that the NCAA has set forth, then they can take their skills to Europe or Canada or somewhere else until the NFL's three year rule is up. Guess what, I'm underpaid at my job too. You gonna come up here and cry to my boss about the unfairness of the system?

Seriously, go be an SEC fan.
 
TechSBP said:
I agree that he broke the rules.

But I think everyone can see the obvious NCAA hypocrisy here: you can buy an AJ Green jersey--made popular by him--and he doesn't get a dime of it. This punishment garners sympathy for Green because that is ridiculous, although what he did was still wrong.
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So you're fine with student athletes selling a dirty sock to an agent for $100,000 huh?

The jersey was a front to transfer money from a sports agent to Green. It's like paying him a new Cadillac for an autograph. The time he's doing isn't near enough.
 
ibeeballin said:
You guys are crazy if you think athletes shouldn't get paid. As I stated before, the millions of dollars these colleges making, atleast 5-10% should be allocated to the players. These athletes work more hours than all of you guys on this board. All I'm hearing from you guys is "well they get a free education". How much value is that degree if you don't have any work experience unlike your fellow classmates, especially in the job market today. Then you keep harping about how there should be playoff in college football. So you expect college kids to play 16-18 games, something they don't even do in the NFL, a not to get payed then either?
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The problem with paying athletes is how do you do it. Obviously a school like Texas generates a whole lot more money than a school like Tech and would have a lot more to give out.

Not all schools make millions of dollars off their football players. Some schools lose money on their programs.
 
'ballin, if it was up to me there would be major changes to the structure of college athletics making it more like a co-op job, drastically reducing class load during a playing season and increasing benefits to student athletes. But I'm probably tapping out at the point of flat out "paying" them this 5-10% you're talking about. At that point it will only be a matter of time before the whole thing collapses on itself and I won't be interested in being around to see it.
 
ibeeballin, I'd love to know who you are.

So, you were on the team last year but not this year? There's quite a few walkons who didn't come back this year.

Why did Zach Fisher not come back out for his last year?
 
How much do you pay the Tech softball team? I'm sure they're really bringing in the bank. How about tennis team, or the golf team, or the volleyball team? Hell, I doubt even the baseball team makes any money. But hey, these are student-athletes and the school is making money off them. Somehow.

Open question to ST: How many Georgia Tech graduates believe that SAs should be paid for their time?
 
You have to look at this as a quasi-contract. AJ agrees to provide his services to UGAg. UGAg agrees to give him a free ride to school and to use their platform as a spring board into the NFL. The latter part of that is the real benefit to AJ. The former part of that is the real benefit to most college athletes. AJ is agreeing to enter into this contract. No one is forcing AJ to play at UGAg or any school. He understands that their "contract" will be governed by NCAA rules and regulations. Part of that means he gives up the right to do certain things, i.e. sell his jersey for money. He also grants the school and the ncaa the right to make money off of him. That is the benefit to UGAg and the NCAA. They make money. Period.
 
ContactBuzz said:
Without even getting into the ridiculousness of the rule or the debate of college players getting paid - he sold the jersey to AN AGENT. Just a few short months after the NCAA sat Dez Bryant down for something similar. If nothing else, college players should know that they can't take money from agents. He deserves punishment for stupidity alone.
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Dez did not do anything with an agent. He was actually doing nothing wrong. He just thought it might have been wrong, so he lied about it. Dez got hammered for lying to NCAA -- nothing to do with an agent.
 
The "players are getting a great deal" crowd are both right and wrong.

Clearly, getting a scholarship and the other benefits and getting into a college that in many cases would have laughed at your application is very valuable.

However, the benefits are not what they could be, and what a free market would dictate. Look at coaches' salaries.

The NCAA rules mandate precisely what each player can receive. Why don't they mandate coaches' salaries? Why don't they mandate athletic directors' salaries?

The "paying the players will doom college football" crowd are just plain wrong. We are already paying the players. This discussion is about whether we are paying them the right amount.
 
ahsoisee is right; as soon as the NCAA allows footall players to get paid, directly or indirectly, college football is over for GT. Might as well take a wrecking ball to BDS.
 
mm42 said:
BS
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So how do you suggest we go about paying everyone? Pay them all the same? If so, how much? Can't be that much. Pay them based on their value to the team? Well, who decides that, and how? Pay them whatever the market allows? Maybe this is the most "fair," but is also a wrecking ball crashing into BDS.
 
beej67 said:
So you're fine with student athletes selling a dirty sock to an agent for $100,000 huh?

The jersey was a front to transfer money from a sports agent to Green. It's like paying him a new Cadillac for an autograph. The time he's doing isn't near enough.
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Really? That's what you get from what I said? You missed the boat.

I specifically said I thought what he did was wrong and that I though he should possibly get a half season suspension.

I tried to explain why people feel sympathy for him and that I think the sympathy is misplaced---that sympathy should actually be disagreement with other practices, not with the punishment. In other words, I'm glad he got caught. I don't agree with the sympathy. But I think the other rules that are being used to generate sympathy for him are wrong. And changing those rules wouldn't change the fact that he acted wrongly and should be in hot water (hence, the sympathy is misplaced).

As far as punishment, I think it's about right. But that's normative, and not equitable. The NCAA is never equitable in its punishments and based on what they've done to others, 4 games is a little light. See Dez Bryant.
 
Allen Koholic said:
Open question to ST: How many Georgia Tech graduates believe that SAs should be paid for their time?
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Not me. I believe those who want to be paid should play in a professional minor league if they want to be paid and the pro sports should stop using colleges as a cheap way to accurately evaluate talent.

But part of that means limiting the ways the NCAA and its members can make money.

Yet, if we keep the current system, I see no ethical response other than to pay athletes in the revenue sports.

You want to 14 games a year and a exhibition? You want a pro quality team and experience? You better not plan to do it on the backs of the players without an opportunity for them to negotiate a wage.
 
TechSBP said:
First---there is no real choice here--there is a clear monopoly. But that's an arcane legal discussion I'd prefer not to get into today.

Second, the free market would allow a player to negotiate his wage: the NCAA declares you ineligible if you try to do that. The other options generally don't exist because the NCAA and NFL have worked out a fairly cozy agreement---the NCAA gives the NFL unfettered access to evaluate talent at relatively low costs. In return then NFL doesn't start a leagueup for minor league talent.

Third, the NCAA teams make huge profits from football and then redistribute it to other sports, coaches, and insanely nice facilities. These things often taken on the form of indirect compenstation, which is allowable (nice locker rooms with tv's, etc.)

Fourth, while most players recieve a net benefit, the real stars--like AJ Green and Calvin Johnson--generate revenue far beyond what they recieve. If the NFL were forced to evaluate talent at the HS level or some other level, they'd still find them. Instead, its more efficient for the NFL to have this situation with college.

But all of this creates a tension between a university's academic mission, the NFL's desire for accurate scouting, the university's profit motives, and a player's best interest. It leaves several players getting paid peanuts compared to what they generate for the school.

The argument can't be "they are getting a great deal" because if that's true, then the universites will necessarily be subsidizing or at best, breaking even on the athletic front. And if that's the case,you've run afoul of the academic mission. Or, if it is about redistributing the revenue to other athletes in other sports---I think we know how some of you feel about redistribution. And for all of this, the athletes get an education that some do not want or care for. Others do want that education and benefit immensely, many because of the "great" atheletes among them.

All of this is to say I don't think a lot of this is clear cut. But I think one of the most base examples of things getting out of hand is a school sellign a jersey with someone's name on it.

At that point, the school is using an athlete's own name to generate a lot of revenue for itself.

I know an employer can bargain for the right to your image, but the bargain is part of the game. I'm suggesting, and I think quite rightly, that a player agrees to play and have their image broadcast, but not to be a merchandising tool for the school.

Keep in mind I've never said AJ shouldn't be punished. I think the punishment of 4 games is about right. Maybe 5 or 6 would have been better. But the punishment emphasizes the hypocrisy here---not that the rule that he violated is bad (it isn't) but the fact that the other things are done at the same time makes the NCAA and schools out to be bad actors.
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Why not? Why can't they use his likeness as a merchandising tool for the school? Why can't that be part of the deal?

All four of your points go back to collusion. The schools get together and agree to maximum allowable compensation. The schools try to give the players everything they can within the rules. The most wiggle room is that they don't limit how nice the facilities can be so we get TajMahal facilities. The new ultimate TajMahal is the indoor practice field. I can't imagine what will be next.

For the athletes it's like a union. The best performers don't get what they "deserve" but the crappy get more than they are earning.

It includes swimmers and tennis players and others both men and women. And truth be told 95% of the members of the union are bums that suck off the 5%.

There is NOTHING stopping the NCAA from going the route of the ivies and having zero athletic scholarships. And you can believe under that scenario, Georgie would still field one of the top teams in Div 1A, filled entirely with players paying their own way. And they would still make millions off tickets and jerseys of their best players.

The reason the NCAA doesn't do that is because the schools will do like the ivies do and get creative with the need based scholarships. That would be a total mess truly ripe for cheating so this system of 85 scholarships fixes that best it can be fixed.
 
BuzzMD said:
Dez did not do anything with an agent. He was actually doing nothing wrong. He just thought it might have been wrong, so he lied about it. Dez got hammered for lying to NCAA -- nothing to do with an agent.
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I knew they nailed him for lying but thought it was agent related - doesn't really change the point of my post.
 
mm42 said:
The "paying the players will doom college football" crowd are just plain wrong. We are already paying the players. This discussion is about whether we are paying them the right amount.
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True. I think you are mischaracterizing the point of the "paying the players will doom college football" crowd.

Few would really care if every player got $100 a month stipend.

But unless you make AJ Green's stipend $100k a month, is any one of the issues brought up about him being "taken advantage of" addressed?

$100 a month, $1000 a month, the best players still are getting screwed compared to the millions they bring in. If you ever try to fix that (the best players not getting compensated), college football as we know it is dead.
 
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