AJC article comments

yellowbritchies said:
Very hard to argue those stats. You're correct when you say that Johnson doesn't like to get away from his base plays when it's crunch time. As far as I'm concerned I think he's lost his "edge".
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He just happened to choose schools that are playing with 14 top 10 recruiting classes between them in the last 4 years, including 2 separate #1's. Quick, name the last time Tech had a top 10 recruiting class.

But yeah, I suppose it's creative playcalling in the red zone that separates us from them. :lol:
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
He just happened to choose schools that are playing with 14 top 10 recruiting classes between them in the last 4 years, including 2 separate #1's. Quick, name the last time Tech had a top 10 recruiting class.

But yeah, I suppose it's creative playcalling in the red zone that separates us from them. :lol:
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I think the point is that we move the ball just as those teams do, top 10 recruiting or not, we just have to get better at stuffing it in the endzone. Granted, that's probably the place where the differential in athletes starts to show.

I don't think CPJ lost imagination in the redzone, we just got used to JFN having a serious knack for picking up 2-3 yards on the QB sneak. He did that for 2 reasons: 1 he was really good at taking the snap and pausing just long enough to see where the linemen collided and diving in the gap. There were plenty of times he would actually slip through and put a hand down and still be walking after getting past the line. 2 whether he picked right or wrong he was murderously strong and had a knack for willing himself into the endzone.

The problem is, Tevin just wasn't as good at that, and we suffered accordingly. I think we'll get some of it back with Vad's size. I would think with Vad's abilities that rolling him out left or right will yeild good things. We need to borrow a page from Ugag's playbook and go run on 1 & 2, and if that doesn't work, play action with roll out to the A back (tight end for Ugag) where the QB can run or throw. It's a GREAT play in the redzone and it's been a staple of Ugag's offense for 20+ years. When it gets broken up it's because a defender makes a Sportcenter top 10 play.
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
He just happened to choose schools that are playing with 14 top 10 recruiting classes between them in the last 4 years, including 2 separate #1's. Quick, name the last time Tech had a top 10 recruiting class.

But yeah, I suppose it's creative playcalling in the red zone that separates us from them.
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Not to ruin the party or anything but the man has a point.

Here are the top 20 teams ranked by percentage of red-zone appearances converted into touchdowns:

Oregon.................80.8
Ohio State.............76.5
Wake Forest............76.0
Georgia................76.0
Louisiana-Monroe.......76.0
Louisiana-Lafayette....75.4
Louisiana Tech.........75.0
New Mexico State.......75.0
Alabama................74.2
Texas A&M..............73.5
Marshall...............73.4
Wyoming................73.0
Clemson................72.9
UCF....................72.6
East Carolina..........72.2
San Diego State........72.0
Nevada.................70.8
Oregon State...........70.7
Florida State..........70.4
Northern Illinois......70.4

I don't think, given this group of teams, there is any reason we shouldn't be one of them.
 
WreckRod said:
I think the point is that we move the ball just as those teams do, top 10 recruiting or not, we just have to get better at stuffing it in the endzone. Granted, that's probably the place where the differential in athletes starts to show.
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Depends on what you mean. We had similar statistical production to Alabama, among those on that list, on the season. If you want to compare how we do against elite defenses only, though, we aren't even really close to Alabama. Even our 426 yards against UGAy that spawned much of the conversation in this thread was dwarfed, when you examine how effective the plays were. We rushed for ~4.5 ypc, they for ~6.8 (they had 50 more total rushing yards). We passed for ~5.7 ypa, they passed for ~7.7 (they had 40 more total passing yards). And Alabama is the one on that list we're closest to in season statistical productivity terms. Clemson's offense was absolutely insane.

I think a better way to make this point might have been Wake Forest (91%), VT (88%), and Duke (83%), were ahead of us in red zone efficiency. They have similar (or worse) talent levels to us, and they play in our conference. They were also all way lower than us in per game productivity, with Wake coming in at #117 in FBS. The differences between these teams in the red zone and us in the red zone would probably be more interesting.
 
00Burdell said:
Not to ruin the party or anything but the man has a point.

Here are the top 20 teams ranked by percentage of red-zone appearances converted into touchdowns:

Oregon.................80.8
Ohio State.............76.5
Wake Forest............76.0
Georgia................76.0
Louisiana-Monroe.......76.0
Louisiana-Lafayette....75.4
Louisiana Tech.........75.0
New Mexico State.......75.0
Alabama................74.2
Texas A&M..............73.5
Marshall...............73.4
Wyoming................73.0
Clemson................72.9
UCF....................72.6
East Carolina..........72.2
San Diego State........72.0
Nevada.................70.8
Oregon State...........70.7
Florida State..........70.4
Northern Illinois......70.4

I don't think, given this group of teams, there is any reason we shouldn't be one of them.
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Not trying to argue that our red zone efficiency is maxed out. The points I'm arguing are:

1) Our play calling is not as predictable as some seem to be implying.

2) Comparing us to a pool of teams that exclusively recruits top 10 classes is a poor method of comparison. Especially when, as your list suggests, there are much more proximal teams to make your point.
 
We were forced to go for it in the RZ this past season on a fair number of occassions. Not to mention our terrible kicking game, both negatively affected our RZ conversion.
 
I think a point that may or may not have been missed is the effect of the terrible defense and awful FG kicking had on the play calling. We knew we were always needing to score TD's instead of being able to settle for a FG because: A. Our defense was not stopping the opposing offense from getting TD's. and B. If we did try a FG, it was only about a 50/50 chance of making it. Therfore, CPJ would almost always call plays in the redzone as if we were going for it on 4th down. Just my opinion..
 
ThisIsAtlanta said:
Not trying to argue that our red zone efficiency is maxed out. The points I'm arguing are:

1) Our play calling is not as predictable as some seem to be implying.

2) Comparing us to a pool of teams that exclusively recruits top 10 classes is a poor method of comparison. Especially when, as your list suggests, there are much more proximal teams to make your point.
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I have some reservations about 1). I have noticed (real or imagined) that our playbook seems to shrink when the LoS is inside the ten. Assuming for the moment that I'm not imagining it, here's one reason why that might be true.

Our offense outside the redzone is highly predicated on defensive alignments - from our own 20, the other D has 80 yards to protect. CPJ is a master at seeing what they are anticipating (e.g., stacking the box vs a prevent D) and attacking the area where we have the best shot at creating a numbers mismatch.

I realize that is a gross oversimplification but I think there is some truth to it.

Well, that is nearly impossible to do when the other D is bunched up inside the ten. I think CPJ struggles at times with what to do since its just not as clear.

Right or wrong, I have felt for about as long as CPJ has been here that I'd rather have a first down on the 15 than on the 8. I think we need the extra room to 'operate' our offense effectively.

I'm not an Xs and Os guru by any means but after watching 30 years of Tech games, that's what I see. I'll also add that even if this is 100% accurate, its still not an indictment of CPJ as a coach. I also think there's a chance he is recognizing this which may explain the 'where-did-that-come-from' pass play for a TD against USCw.
 
I have no doubt that our plays become more predictable as we approach the goal. I just contest that they don't become so predictable that it is killing our ability to score, as was implied somewhere above. It doesn't strike me as likely that CPJ has been doing this for decades and he's got it all figured out except that part where you have to score in the red zone. :lol:

I also think rduck and crew bring up some good points that help explain what we are seeing with that stat much better.
 
Redzone scoring is interesting when looked at statistically.

GT scored on 80% of its redzone possessions in '12. At face value, that seems pretty good. However, that number is only good enough to rank #73 out of 124 teams.

Furthermore, when you look at redzone attempts, we move up to #17. We seem to be getting to the redzone more often than the majority of teams, but fail to convert those opportunities into points at equally high rate.

Similarly, we rank #19 in total number of redzone TD's scored at 43.

So in conclusion, we seem to be great between the 20's but not so great at 20 yards in.

One way to look at it is we accomplished half the battle as scoring = moving the ball down the field then sticking it in the endzone. Most team don't get this far. Now all we have to do is figure out how to capitalize on our opportunities.

After doing the math, the stats are even more misleading. If we had just converted 7 more times (any combination of td's and fieldgoals over the course of 14 games which averages out to half a conversion per game), that would have put us at 90% and at #12 ahead of..... Oregon.

So, how far do we have to go to get where we need to be is the question?

http://www.cfbstats.com/2012/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category27/sort01.html
 
dressedcheeseside said:
So, how far do we have to go to get where we need to be is the question?
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Good question. I don't know the answer but I know the first place I'd look: which position is making the defensive plays that are keeping us out of the endzone - DL, LB or secondary? Is there a trend or pattern? If yes, then there you go. If not, let the head-scratching begin.
 
00Burdell said:
I have some reservations about 1). I have noticed (real or imagined) that our playbook seems to shrink when the LoS is inside the ten. Assuming for the moment that I'm not imagining it, here's one reason why that might be true.

Our offense outside the redzone is highly predicated on defensive alignments - from our own 20, the other D has 80 yards to protect. CPJ is a master at seeing what they are anticipating (e.g., stacking the box vs a prevent D) and attacking the area where we have the best shot at creating a numbers mismatch.

I realize that is a gross oversimplification but I think there is some truth to it.

Well, that is nearly impossible to do when the other D is bunched up inside the ten. I think CPJ struggles at times with what to do since its just not as clear.

Right or wrong, I have felt for about as long as CPJ has been here that I'd rather have a first down on the 15 than on the 8. I think we need the extra room to 'operate' our offense effectively.

I'm not an Xs and Os guru by any means but after watching 30 years of Tech games, that's what I see. I'll also add that even if this is 100% accurate, its still not an indictment of CPJ as a coach. I also think there's a chance he is recognizing this which may explain the 'where-did-that-come-from' pass play for a TD against USCw.
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this is really simple
close to goal we had no real pass OFF so had to run which means the DBs are up so BIG problems without DOMINANT blocking
 
00Burdell said:
I have some reservations about 1). I have noticed (real or imagined) that our playbook seems to shrink when the LoS is inside the ten. Assuming for the moment that I'm not imagining it, here's one reason why that might be true.

Our offense outside the redzone is highly predicated on defensive alignments - from our own 20, the other D has 80 yards to protect. CPJ is a master at seeing what they are anticipating (e.g., stacking the box vs a prevent D) and attacking the area where we have the best shot at creating a numbers mismatch.

I realize that is a gross oversimplification but I think there is some truth to it.

Well, that is nearly impossible to do when the other D is bunched up inside the ten. I think CPJ struggles at times with what to do since its just not as clear.

Right or wrong, I have felt for about as long as CPJ has been here that I'd rather have a first down on the 15 than on the 8. I think we need the extra room to 'operate' our offense effectively.

I'm not an Xs and Os guru by any means but after watching 30 years of Tech games, that's what I see. I'll also add that even if this is 100% accurate, its still not an indictment of CPJ as a coach. I also think there's a chance he is recognizing this which may explain the 'where-did-that-come-from' pass play for a TD against USCw.
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I think that as the space becomes more compressed, raw power begins to overtake both speed and trickery as factors required to succeed. :dunno:
 
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