Chaun Gresham

[GTCrew]

I'm not talking about *quality* of evaluation - I'm talking about the *time invested* (guys like Giff Smith and BJM have been evaluating these players for multiple years). The sites have just finished up evaulating '08 seniors - they've only evaluated a handful of '08 juniors.

Very true.

I see two obvious big positives on several of these guys. The old staff was proven prospecters and they liked them. The new staff agrees so it's like having an expert second opinion on them. Also, several of these guys have racked up some very impressive early offers.

 

[clapper]

I'm not comfortable saying that PJ is an eye for great HS recruits yet. I don't see the facts required to back that up just yet.

When your teams play lights out by year two at the latest, it is hard to prove that you went out and found great recruits. Also, I don't recall the guys following PJ to date having near his success.

He went to Hawai'i and they won their first WAC title and bowl game. He went to Navy (the first time) and they had a winning record for the first time in 14 years and won a bowl game. He went to GA Southern and won two National Championships. He returned to Navy and was National Coach of the Year and his last two senior classes were the only ones in Navy history to win the Commander-in-Chief Trophy all four years.

I really don't give a happy **** how comfortable you are with him as a recruiter. And I'm definitely not concerned how the guy that follows him is going to do.

 

[hiveredtech]

I'm talking about the *time invested* (guys like Giff Smith and BJM have been evaluating these players for multiple years)

That is a HUGE positive for us. Unlike Dave Braine which nosed his way in during the last coaching change and forced a complete coaching turnover within 12 months....DRad understands the importance of recruiting and "strongly encouraged" that whatever new coach came in should keep Giff Smith at the very least....with strong recommendations for BJ. Keeping Charles Kelly was icing on the cake.

We have been hearing for two years that this 2009 class was going to be deep in both smarts and athletics...it looks like they are proving themselves correct thus far.

 

[ncjacket]

Correct. Ga Southern, Hawaii, and Navy the first time he left. I believe that each regressed after he left.

That has nothing to do with anything. First of all, he wasn't the head coach at Hawaii or Navy the first time he left so what happened after he left was on the HC, not him.

But all 3 of those schools lived off finding guys who could play that other schools let slip through the cracks. If anything, those teams required coaches who could recognize players no matter what everyone else thought. They couldn't get anyone who the big schools wanted. Totally different situation than at D-1. What PJ and his staff is doing now is impressing kids who other programs are interested in to a point where they cut their recruitment short. He's showing he can compete on the recruiting side of the business just as he's done on the field.

 

[Jacket59]

Dang we are getting rich in linebackers. The way it looks early, it seems like we could bring in about 6 BIGTIMERS at this position if we wanted to. I wish we could employ a defense that uses about 6 linebackers with the really good depth we continue to have there. Bowen, Barnes, Jefferson, Griffin, and Chambers all seem to be starter quality, and I'm sure out of Tongo, T.Clark, Jackson, Rocker, and Braman there's at least 1 more. Then you throw in the 3 (could've been 4) quality freshmen from this year's class, and a bunch from next year. It's a shame only 3 of them can see the field per down.

With the strength of our D-line as well, maybe we should go to the 4-4 like VPI. This would alleviate some secondary issues as well, I suppose.

 

[beej67]

I can see a 3-4 in our future, that's for sure.

 

[GTCrew]

He went to Hawai'i and they won their first WAC title and bowl game. He went to Navy (the first time) and they had a winning record for the first time in 14 years and won a bowl game. He went to GA Southern and won two National Championships. He returned to Navy and was National Coach of the Year and his last two senior classes were the only ones in Navy history to win the Commander-in-Chief Trophy all four years.

I really don't give a happy **** how comfortable you are with him as a recruiter. And I'm definitely not concerned how the guy that follows him is going to do.

What the eff is wrong with you. Can't you follow a thread? Is this thread about what he did when he was at a school? We all love his proven track record as a HC and OC. But that's a different thread.

But if it is about Jimmys and Joes not xs and os, we need to recruit to win in the BCS leagues.

Curry was obviously good at recruiting for some reason. The proof is in what good coaches did with his players after he left. Curry left three schools totally stocked with talent.

Anyway, in one post you have ignored the thread and argued with old irrelevant news, responded to me when you claim not to care, and showed your *** in a most obnoxious manner. Nice trifecta.

 

[33jacket]

I can see a 3-4 in our future, that's for sure.

this is the first time someone has said this in the past 6 years and I finally AGREE.

Why...not b/c of the LBs, although thats part of it...but b/c of the Size and WHO we are recruiting at DT. The 340 lb 330 lb big DT is classic 3-4 stuff. One we never had and need to run a 3-4.

Personally, I would like to stick to the 4-3, have two 330 lb hoggers in the middle taking up 3 OL; leaving the LB free to roam -> Utopia

 

[beej67]

Why...not b/c of the LBs, although thats part of it...but b/c of the Size and WHO we are recruiting at DT.

Yup.

 

[GTCrew]

That has nothing to do with anything. First of all, he wasn't the head coach at Hawaii or Navy the first time he left so what happened after he left was on the HC, not him.

But all 3 of those schools lived off finding guys who could play that other schools let slip through the cracks. If anything, those teams required coaches who could recognize players no matter what everyone else thought. They couldn't get anyone who the big schools wanted. Totally different situation than at D-1. What PJ and his staff is doing now is impressing kids who other programs are interested in to a point where they cut their recruitment short. He's showing he can compete on the recruiting side of the business just as he's done on the field.

Agree and disagree.

First of all, I love the new HC. I feel confident that we will win no matter if we have more or less talent because coach is that good. I haven't felt that way since we had Fridge. And I am one of few who think that talent is overrated in college football.

But CPJ has moved a lot. Was he ever playing with a team entirely dependent on his recruits? Maybe this year's Navy team?

If he was the worlds absolute best ever recruiter, he should have left a team (as HC) or an offense (as OC) that was too talented to fall far. I assume as OC he was expected to recruit offensive players...

I agree that those schools (Navy, Hawaii, GSU) largely rely on finding hidden gems to succeed. But CPJ didn't stick around to prove that he had found a bunch of hidden gems. And the guys who followed CPJ didn't appear to have teams overflowing with hidden gems.

So in conclusion, I feel that CPJ is an unproven recruiter. However I subscribe to the BOR theory of recruiting rankings that offer list has the most correlation to success. I very much am impressed with the offer list of our early commits and agree completely with your last two sentences.

 

[Jacket59]

Agree and disagree.

First of all, I love the new HC. I feel confident that we will win no matter if we have more or less talent because coach is that good. I haven't felt that way since we had Fridge. And I am one of few who think that talent is overrated in college football.

But CPJ has moved a lot. Was he ever playing with a team entirely dependent on his recruits? Maybe this year's Navy team?

If he was the worlds absolute best ever recruiter, he should have left a team (as HC) or an offense (as OC) that was too talented to fall far. I assume as OC he was expected to recruit offensive players...

I agree that those schools (Navy, Hawaii, GSU) largely rely on finding hidden gems to succeed. But CPJ didn't stick around to prove that he had found a bunch of hidden gems. And the guys who followed CPJ didn't appear to have teams overflowing with hidden gems.

So in conclusion, I feel that CPJ is an unproven recruiter. However I subscribe to the BOR theory of recruiting rankings that offer list has the most correlation to success. I very much am impressed with the offer list of our early commits and agree completely with your last two sentences.

Spurrier's successor didn't fare nearly as well as he did. UGA's recruiting didn't just take off when Richt got there. Miami's fall from Davis to Coker to Shannon, and Bowden's struggles at FSU ... I'm in the camp that would say recruiting differences didn't have a whole lot to do with these performance differences. For me, it speaks VERY well for a coach if the team isn't as successful before and after said coach was part of the program. It says more about the ability of that coach to coach rather than his ability to recruit. Some exceptions duelly noted.

 

[beej67]

To me, if a team falls off when a coach leaves, that's a good indicator at how good a gameday coach he was, not an indicator of how poor a recruiter he is.

 

[ncjacket]

Agree and disagree.

First of all, I love the new HC. I feel confident that we will win no matter if we have more or less talent because coach is that good. I haven't felt that way since we had Fridge. And I am one of few who think that talent is overrated in college football.

But CPJ has moved a lot. Was he ever playing with a team entirely dependent on his recruits? Maybe this year's Navy team? He's moved no more than any coach moving up in the coaching ranks.

If he was the worlds absolute best ever recruiter, he should have left a team (as HC) or an offense (as OC) that was too talented to fall far. I assume as OC he was expected to recruit offensive players... Bad assumption. Recruiting coordinators are overall responsible and other coaches have areas to recruit. OCs don't recruit offensive players exclusively, just as OL coaches don't recruit OL. They have their own geography and look for all players that can help.

I agree that those schools (Navy, Hawaii, GSU) largely rely on finding hidden gems to succeed. But CPJ didn't stick around to prove that he had found a bunch of hidden gems. And the guys who followed CPJ didn't appear to have teams overflowing with hidden gems.
The guys following CPJ had the same players he did they just couldn't do anything with them,

So in conclusion, I feel that CPJ is an unproven recruiter. However I subscribe to the BOR theory of recruiting rankings that offer list has the most correlation to success. I very much am impressed with the offer list of our early commits and agree completely with your last two sentences.

He is unproven at this level, no argument there. But the early returns are pretty damn good so I'm not worried at all.

 

[GTCrew]

Nice post ncjacket.

I left out the 'at least'. I have no evidence to believe CPJ is a Tenuta style coordinator. On most teams everybody recruits because it is that important as you well know. While not trying to argue your point, I doubt if many OCs dont give most all of the offensive recruits a good once over before they are offered. It may be someone elses job to identify the candidates and coordinate the activities/contacts, but the OC should oversee the offensive recruits.

 

[WaCoJacket]

this is the first time someone has said this in the past 6 years and I finally AGREE.

Why...not b/c of the LBs, although thats part of it...but b/c of the Size and WHO we are recruiting at DT. The 340 lb 330 lb big DT is classic 3-4 stuff. One we never had and need to run a 3-4.

Personally, I would like to stick to the 4-3, have two 330 lb hoggers in the middle taking up 3 OL; leaving the LB free to roam -> Utopia

I'm with you. I want what Jacksonville & Minnesota puts on the field. 2 massive DTs (Stroud & Henderson), play making DEs, and LBs free to run around and make plays all over the field.

I think we'll see us switching from 3-4 to 4-3 to 4-2-5 after the new players get comfortable.

BTW. MJ at OLB will drive teams crazy.

 

[clapper]

What the eff is wrong with you. Can't you follow a thread? Is this thread about what he did when he was at a school? We all love his proven track record as a HC and OC. But that's a different thread.

But if it is about Jimmys and Joes not xs and os, we need to recruit to win in the BCS leagues.

Curry was obviously good at recruiting for some reason. The proof is in what good coaches did with his players after he left. Curry left three schools totally stocked with talent.

Anyway, in one post you have ignored the thread and argued with old irrelevant news, responded to me when you claim not to care, and showed your *** in a most obnoxious manner. Nice trifecta.

Can't I follow a thread? CPJ didn't perform all those feats with someone else's players immediately after arriving. And I don't much care if a kid has one star or five, if the coach is adept enough to put him in a position to succeed. His past record of success in coaching is infinitely more important than how the next guy does with whatever talent he leaves...especially when coaches leave more often than not because they haven't succeeded. How is that any further off track than you saying that he's never proven he can recruit because the people behind him couldn't coach them, particularly when he uses a scheme that only suits a certain type of player?

And talk about showing your ass. You said Curry was obviously good at recruiting because good coaches were able to do something with the stocked talent he left. Bobby Ross, an obviously good coach, was 2-9 & 3-8 with Curry's stocked talent. Gene Stallings went 7-5 his first year with Curry's recruits. Hal Mumme went 5-6 & 7-5. Damn, he was almost as good a recruiter as he was with X's & O's.

 

[mts315]

I have not read this entire thread but from the last few responses I thought this quote would fit nicely and represents why I think that CPJ will put the best 11 guys on the field for O and D. The story as it was related to me goes something like this...

During a practice when CPJ was at Navy he had an offensive lineman that kept missing his assingment. CPJ went to this young man and said... Son if you ever find yourself on the field during a game I want you to call time out because someone has F'd up!

 

[GTCrew]

Clapper, reread the thread. You are the only one discussing his record. The thread ain't about that!

I'm wasting my time with you, you have no capacity to listen.

If you think that Alabama and GT winning MNC with teams almost entirely dependent on Curry recruited players can be argued away with bad transition years I am embarrassed for you.

 

[clapper]

If you think that Alabama and GT winning MNC with teams almost entirely dependent on Curry recruited players can be argued away with bad transition years I am embarrassed for you.

Yes, please reread the thread. It has nothing to do with how the coaches after the coaches performed with the team.

But since you've brought it up....

Of the twelve offensive starters (including the kicker) on our MNC team, the following were recruited by Bill Curry:

Darryl Jenkins
Jim Lavin
Joe Siffri
Stefen Scotton

On defense (including the punter):

Jeremiah McClary
Keith Holmes
Thomas Balkcom
Scott Aldredge

Thanks for playing. We have some fine parting gifts. Or shall we analyze the Alabama team too?

 

[ncjacket]

And talk about showing your ass. You said Curry was obviously good at recruiting because good coaches were able to do something with the stocked talent he left. Bobby Ross, an obviously good coach, was 2-9 & 3-8 with Curry's stocked talent. Gene Stallings went 7-5 his first year with Curry's recruits. Hal Mumme went 5-6 & 7-5. Damn, he was almost as good a recruiter as he was with X's & O's.

Well, not to come between you guys, but Curry was a decent recruiter. There were plenty of good players on the team that Ross took over, but BR wanted things done his way. The reason we had such bad records his first two years IMO was Ross, not Curry's players.