Explain to me how safeties on kickoffs work

beej67

beej67

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Their guy catches the ball at the 2, realizes he can't fair catch off the ground, runs into the end zone, and we tackle him. Ref rules him down at the 2.

Orwin Smith catches the ball in 2012 just inside the end zone on a kickoff, takes a quarter step that brings the nose of the ball past the line maybe possibly, takes a knee, it goes as a safety.

By what weird interpretation of the rules do both of these instances make sense? If the refs gave forward progress on one, why would they not give forward progress on the other?
 
In my recollection from the Jumbotron, the guy picked the ball up and stood there and didn’t retreat into the end zone before he was engaged by a defender and they went into said end zone. Is there a good video of the event anywhere? Did they show replays on TV? I think it ends up being an interpretation of forward progress because of the engagement with the defender?

Orwin backed up on his own end zone and took a knee with no one around.
 
I wonder if Orwin got the ball fully out of the end zone. Seems like if he did, forward progress would have put the ball on the 1” line. If he didn’t, it’s a touchback.

Maybe forward progress doesn’t count if you voluntarily retreat (I think I’ve seen this called before), in which case Orwin makes sense and the refs just blew the call against Duke (because it looked to me like he stepped back into the end zone before we made contact).

JRjr
 
vapspwi said:
I wonder if Orwin got the ball fully out of the end zone. Seems like if he did, forward progress would have put the ball on the 1” line. If he didn’t, it’s a touchback.

Maybe forward progress doesn’t count if you voluntarily retreat (I think I’ve seen this called before), in which case Orwin makes sense and the refs just blew the call against Duke (because it looked to me like he stepped back into the end zone before we made contact).

JRjr
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Yep, forward progress is only granted if the player is forced back by a defender.
 
I didn't see the forward progress of the Duke player. It looked like he stepped on the endzone line, has the ball breaking the plane since he had it in his right arm, right as we hit him.
 
I find it funny that without the recently introduced fair catch rule on kickoffs, it's unlikely our strip sack TD ever happens, because the thought that he could advance to the 25 with a fair catch would have never entered the returner's mind.

And without the weird rule about catching the ball with a foot out of bounds being a penalty on the kicking team, it's unlikely Smith tries to get cute on the previous return.
 
vapspwi said:
By actual contact only (I assume this is the case), or is there any affordance for “about to get hit”?

JRjr
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Actual contact. And then the play has to be blown dead. If not, the runner can get away and then the forward progress is nullified.
 
MeatWrench said:
In my recollection from the Jumbotron, the guy picked the ball up and stood there and didn’t retreat into the end zone before he was engaged by a defender and they went into said end zone. Is there a good video of the event anywhere? Did they show replays on TV? I think it ends up being an interpretation of forward progress because of the engagement with the defender?

Orwin backed up on his own end zone and took a knee with no one around.
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Exactly. Not sure why it was so difficult for him to understand. He’s such an expert on stuff.
 
Duke guy went in on his own before being touched by GT. Should'a been a safety. Did they even review it? I was at the game but didn't seem like they did- or it didn't take very long. Refs made a ton of bad calls / no calls in that game. Reminded me of the UCF crew....ugh.
 
I thought they ruled him down at the one because the blew they play dead when he 'gave himself up' (even though they shouldn't have). I thought that was the call. I can't find video of that play anywhere.
 
I thought at the time that it should have been a safety, but I'd been drinking and haven't seen a replay of it since. If any part of the ball was outside of the end zone when the defender arrived, it was the right call, I believe.
 
gtfan088 said:
I thought at the time that it should have been a safety, but I'd been drinking and haven't seen a replay of it since. If any part of the ball was outside of the end zone when the defender arrived, it was the right call, I believe.
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The entire ball has to cross the line, otherwise, it is a safety. It is the inverse of 'breaking the plane' for a TD. Right?
 
MeatWrench said:
In my recollection from the Jumbotron, the guy picked the ball up and stood there and didn’t retreat into the end zone before he was engaged by a defender and they went into said end zone.
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That was my recollection too, but it's not on the ACC highlight reel. Don't see a full game up yet.
 
beej67 said:
That was my recollection too, but it's not on the ACC highlight reel. Don't see a full game up yet.
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The condensed game is on ramblinwreck.com. Wanted to look for that play in there but haven't yet.
 
GTce93 said:
Duke guy went in on his own before being touched by GT. Should'a been a safety. Did they even review it? I was at the game but didn't seem like they did- or it didn't take very long. Refs made a ton of bad calls / no calls in that game. Reminded me of the UCF crew....ugh.
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Problem is, our game was televised on the Peoria cable access channel. There was no sideline cameras of any consequence. If anything, a review would have been held as called on the field because of the ööööty camera angle.

That said, it still looked like he stepped on the line with the ball over the and as we hit him
 
Otoh, we had a player get credited with a sack, causing a fumble, and scored the TD.
 
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