Free Pass for UNC

I did not see anything in there that said unc will not be punished.

As much as I hate the ncaa, I have to kind of agree with them on this one. It's dumb for the unc athletes to be suing the NCAA for this. If they sue anyone, it should be unc; and even then, I would still call it kind of ridiculous. They knew what they were doing when they took those classes.

That doesn't mean that unc shouldn't be punished or the NCAA isn't hypocritical. It just means that they shouldn't be legally liable for UNC offering fake classes.
 
Duh. They're 100,000 times more scared of having to pay players than they are of academic fraud. One hits their wallets. The other does not. They are only on the hook for academic integrity in that they claim the players are getting paid via their free education.
 
Yeah when is UNC getting punished for what they did? Btw if NCAA is saying they're not liable for the education quality of the colleges then how are they going to justify punishing UNC for the educational quality given to their student athletes? Wouldn't UNC in turn use NCAA words to sue them? If NCAA is claiming no responsibility for this then what is the legitimacy of any of their punitive actions? Is our probation even justified? Their latest comment undermines the whole illusion of their governing of colleges in relation to student athletes.

If they were to say we haven't punished UNC yet because the investigation is ongoing then they should technically be clear of this, but their current defense is abhorrent and damning at best.
 
The NCAA is saying that since tens of thousands of fratboys also got free As and no-show degrees, that the athletes didn't get special treatment.

In a sense, they're right, and it is the accreditation board who has to lay the smack down. And I hope they do. I hope UNC gets their accreditation revoked for a year or two.
 
beej67 said:
The NCAA is saying that since tens of thousands of fratboys also got free As and no-show degrees, that the athletes didn't get special treatment.

In a sense, they're right, and it is the accreditation board who has to lay the smack down. And I hope they do. I hope UNC gets their accreditation revoked for a year or two.
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There are emails where the Dean of the School Ethics is discussing blatently plagiarized papers that were turned in by players. No actions were taken against the players and they were allowed to resubmit new papers. Are frat boys at UNC getting that treatment as well? Somehow I doubt it.

What's the point in having GPA and progress towards degree requirements when schools can create no show majors where passing grades are handed out regardless of the quality of work?

What I'm hearing is that the NCAA would be perfectly fine with a school offering a do nothing major with no tests, no classes, no academic rigor, where degrees are simply handed out when the student's athletic eligibility expires provided that the major is offered to the entire general student population. Is that right? If so, why have the NCAA?
 
JTS said:
There are emails where the Dean of the School Ethics is discussing blatently plagiarized papers that were turned in by players. No actions were taken against the players and they were allowed to resubmit new papers. Are frat boys at UNC getting that treatment as well? Somehow I doubt it.

What's the point in having GPA and progress towards degree requirements when schools can create no show majors where passing grades are handed out regardless of the quality of work?

What I'm hearing is that the NCAA would be perfectly fine with a school offering a do nothing major with no tests, no classes, no academic rigor, where degrees are simply handed out when the student's athletic eligibility expires provided that the major is offered to the entire general student population. Is that right? If so, why have the NCAA?
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That's the question du jour. Even if you could justify the NCAA's existence, its tax-exempt status should be heavily scrutinized.
 
JTS said:
What I'm hearing is that the NCAA would be perfectly fine with a school offering a do nothing major with no tests, no classes, no academic rigor, where degrees are simply handed out when the student's athletic eligibility expires provided that the major is offered to the entire general student population. Is that right? If so, why have the NCAA?
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Because the schools themselves would not be okay with offering that to the general student population (except for unc). Most would, however, be okay with offering it only to football and basketball players. That's the type of thing the ncaa exists to stop.
 
JTS said:
There are emails where the Dean of the School Ethics is discussing blatently plagiarized papers that were turned in by players. No actions were taken against the players and they were allowed to resubmit new papers. Are frat boys at UNC getting that treatment as well? Somehow I doubt it.

What's the point in having GPA and progress towards degree requirements when schools can create no show majors where passing grades are handed out regardless of the quality of work?

What I'm hearing is that the NCAA would be perfectly fine with a school offering a do nothing major with no tests, no classes, no academic rigor, where degrees are simply handed out when the student's athletic eligibility expires provided that the major is offered to the entire general student population. Is that right? If so, why have the NCAA?
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At this point the NCAA should just stop caring about academics altogether and focus on what they really care about, the money side. Let them police the benefits, the free cars, free tatoos and money in brown bags. At this point their academic requirements basically encourage academic misconduct and classes/degrees that are meaningless.

andrew said:
Because the schools themselves would not be okay with offering that to the general student population (except for unc). Most would, however, be okay with offering it only to football and basketball players. That's the type of thing the ncaa exists to stop.
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Why wouldn't the schools be ok with that now? UNC hasn't really seemed to suffer at all for it and people at that school care more about academics than some other schools with powerful programs.
 
Well here's how the players may have a case. Since technically scholarship is how the SAs get compensated for their work, from which NCAA and the colleges benefit, it needs to be worth something. I'd say a UNC degree is already garbage but if these SAs are getting paid with a scholarship to take fake classes then they weren't really compensated for their work. And since NCAA is the regulatory association governing scholarships they're also responsible for the compensation the SAs received.

We all know the SAs knew that they were taking fake classes, I'd personally like all of them to be held accountable for this sh*tshow they created.
 
GTLiebs said:
Why wouldn't the schools be ok with that now? UNC hasn't really seemed to suffer at all for it and people at that school care more about academics than some other schools with powerful programs.
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If they want to do that, they can and should. That's basically what the University of Phoenix is, right?

I don't want the NCAA to be the arbiter of what quality of education is worthy to be "good enough". That doesn't make any sense to me.

I think you are way overestimating how many schools are willing to make no show classes available to the student population in general. I have a feeling you would have trouble finding a single UNC alum or faculty member who says they're okay with what happened or that they should do it again, or any alum from another school who says theirs should do it.
 
Akinji07 said:
Well here's how the players may have a case. Since technically scholarship is how the SAs get compensated for their work, from which NCAA and the colleges benefit, it needs to be worth something. I'd say a UNC degree is already garbage but if these SAs are getting paid with a scholarship to take fake classes then they weren't really compensated for their work. And since NCAA is the regulatory association governing scholarships they're also responsible for the compensation the SAs received.

We all know the SAs knew that they were taking fake classes, I'd personally like all of them to be held accountable for this sh*tshow they created.
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The NCAA would say the SAa are not being compensated for work as they are not employees. If the scholarship is considered compensation for work then it would be pretty clearly illegal for all the schools to get together and agree not to go above that level of compensation.
 
andrew said:
The NCAA would say the SAa are not being compensated for work as they are not employees. If the scholarship is considered compensation for work then it would be pretty clearly illegal for all the schools to get together and agree not to go above that level of compensation.
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If that's the case then the colleges and the NCAA are exploiting slave labor and they're violating the 14th amendment.

That's a bit extreme. I don't know what the laws say about willingly becoming a slave. Might have to read 50 shades of NCAA to find out.
 
Akinji07 said:
If that's the case then the colleges and the NCAA are exploiting slave labor and they're violating the 14th amendment.
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That would be true if the players weren't free to just not attend the school...
 
By the way, I agree they are basically employees at this point. I'm just saying that if a legal argument were to succeed based on that, the quality of the degree would be irrelevant because the whole model of schools agreeing among themselves to only compensate players with scholarships would be illegal.
 
andrew said:
That would be true if the players weren't free to just not attend the school...
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In which case this is still a fraud case because they're entering into a legal contract to receive free education for their participation in the athletic program. The quality of education is still the responsibility of all those who are benefiting from the services provided.
 
Akinji07 said:
In which case this is still a fraud case because they're entering into a legal contract to receive free education for their participation in the athletic program. The quality of education is still the responsibility of all those who are benefiting from the services provided.
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True. That would say that anyone who took those classes, athlete or not, should be able to sue, right? Because they were all giving something in exchange for an education.
 
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