Georgis Tech Football Dominance

TampaBayJacket said:
Not to be Debbie Downer but... that was before Bear Bryant and others introduced us to the era of "athlete-friendly" curriculums. We know how the rest of this story goes. I honestly believe the best we can hope for in the modern era is a burst of success for a year or two and then a few years to rebuild. NIL and the power-two conferences only made things worse for us.
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Agreed. In this day and age, the word 'athlete' has been re-enforced and 'Student' has not. In fact it's been de-emphasized in my opinion, especially in FB and BB. To the detriment, ironically to the kids themselves, who are predominantly minority/black. Yes, we've got an uphill battle with everything, including the NIL, factories churning and burning athletes for wins and revenue, but I like to think that our leadership to our coaches are emphasizing BOTH aspects of the 'Student Athlete'. When I read articles like the one on UGAY where they can't control their players and turn a blind eye, I'm not getting on my high horse saying we do everything right 100% of the time but at least we're looked at by athletes and parents as a place where you have to put the work in at both. As a GT alum, this place kicked my tail but in the end I did graduate, and I'm all the better for it and have a great job and graduate school (for both my masters) was a breeze thanks to GT. I want to win just as bad as the next fan but I don't want us to compromise, sell our souls or be the headlines of some indicting article/whistleblowing story. We may not string years of winning seasons, but if we can beat UGA enough to piss them off when we do and win consistently I'm happy. Of course a Natty would be nice but at a place like GT, not only do the stars have to align (for no injuries, etc.) but the staff, players and the Program has to be all in.
 
gt9589 said:
Agreed. In this day and age, the word 'athlete' has been re-enforced and 'Student' has not. In fact it's been de-emphasized in my opinion, especially in FB and BB. To the detriment, ironically to the kids themselves, who are predominantly minority/black. Yes, we've got an uphill battle with everything, including the NIL, factories churning and burning athletes for wins and revenue, but I like to think that our leadership to our coaches are emphasizing BOTH aspects of the 'Student Athlete'. When I read articles like the one on UGAY where they can't control their players and turn a blind eye, I'm not getting on my high horse saying we do everything right 100% of the time but at least we're looked at by athletes and parents as a place where you have to put the work in at both. As a GT alum, this place kicked my tail but in the end I did graduate, and I'm all the better for it and have a great job and graduate school (for both my masters) was a breeze thanks to GT. I want to win just as bad as the next fan but I don't want us to compromise, sell our souls or be the headlines of some indicting article/whistleblowing story. We may not string years of winning seasons, but if we can beat UGA enough to piss them off when we do and win consistently I'm happy. Of course a Natty would be nice but at a place like GT, not only do the stars have to align (for no injuries, etc.) but the staff, players and the Program has to be all in.
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This is just wrong. Times change and so do priorities. Everyone else adapted to the changing times and GT and many of its fans are expecting todays society to have the same values as the 1950’s. Listen, I wish we did - we agree. But that’s a fantasy land and the modern athlete does not care about any of that. Here‘s the heart of the matter - today’s D1 P5 major sport college athletes are not student-athletes. They are athletes first and then some of them actually pursue a degree. We do not stink at football because of studies. We stink at football because we haven’t yet accepted what today has become. That’s on us and isn’t a fault of any other team. Bama, UGA, Tenn, Auburn, FSU all have adapted while we still have our eyes closed and think it’s 1954.

Whats gets me is the totally hypocritical way GT behaves. We scream “student-athlete” and whine about the course work, yet we allowed a person like Deivon Smith transfer to GT then transfer right out all so he could play hoops for about 3 months. If we want to be pure then be pure. And we just took in a bunch of football players who will portal out come January. We stink because every high end high school athlete knows we aren’t committed to today‘s game. And no one with better options, especially todays pampered athletes, wants to be in a wishy washy situation.
 
Look at what they did to the other SEC teams that year…absolutely obliterated Bama, UGA, Auburn, LSU and Florida. Amazing!
 
OptionJacket said:
This is just wrong. Times change and so do priorities. Everyone else adapted to the changing times and GT and many of its fans are expecting todays society to have the same values as the 1950’s. Listen, I wish we did - we agree. But that’s a fantasy land and the modern athlete does not care about any of that. Here‘s the heart of the matter - today’s D1 P5 major sport college athletes are not student-athletes. They are athletes first and then some of them actually pursue a degree. We do not stink at football because of studies. We stink at football because we haven’t yet accepted what today has become. That’s on us and isn’t a fault of any other team. Bama, UGA, Tenn, Auburn, FSU all have adapted while we still have our eyes closed and think it’s 1954.

Whats gets me is the totally hypocritical way GT behaves. We scream “student-athlete” and whine about the course work, yet we allowed a person like Deivon Smith transfer to GT then transfer right out all so he could play hoops for about 3 months. If we want to be pure then be pure. And we just took in a bunch of football players who will portal out come January. We stink because every high end high school athlete knows we aren’t committed to today‘s game. And no one with better options, especially todays pampered athletes, wants to be in a wishy washy situation.
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I dunno I still live like it's the 1950s. Wear a jacket and tie everywhere in public, have my first whiskey at work beginning at 10:45 am, chain smoke only indoor. Sometimes when my old lady gets too far out of line I give her a good backhand so she remembers her role.

Maybe the problem actually is we're not treating the athletes enough like we did early to mid century. We let too many Nancy boys in now. I don't care if you're 6'7" and 320 if you complain like a little girl. We should just recruit leather skinned war heroes and win football games.
 
OptionJacket said:
This is just wrong. Times change and so do priorities. Everyone else adapted to the changing times and GT and many of its fans are expecting todays society to have the same values as the 1950’s. Listen, I wish we did - we agree. But that’s a fantasy land and the modern athlete does not care about any of that. Here‘s the heart of the matter - today’s D1 P5 major sport college athletes are not student-athletes. They are athletes first and then some of them actually pursue a degree. We do not stink at football because of studies. We stink at football because we haven’t yet accepted what today has become. That’s on us and isn’t a fault of any other team. Bama, UGA, Tenn, Auburn, FSU all have adapted while we still have our eyes closed and think it’s 1954.

Whats gets me is the totally hypocritical way GT behaves. We scream “student-athlete” and whine about the course work, yet we allowed a person like Deivon Smith transfer to GT then transfer right out all so he could play hoops for about 3 months. If we want to be pure then be pure. And we just took in a bunch of football players who will portal out come January. We stink because every high end high school athlete knows we aren’t committed to today‘s game. And no one with better options, especially todays pampered athletes, wants to be in a wishy washy situation.
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You just said what I was saying, just in a different way. You just said the factories are catering to athletes and not looking at academics. At a place like GT your typical blue chipper 5 star would never make it here academically. In my 30+ years following GT FB as a student and alumnus we’ve always known that our school is not for the athlete that doesn’t care about school. I’ve just reiterated what we all know and that changes in the landscape such as the NIL have made it harder. I’m certainly not one of those that ‘whines’ about our coursework. Our players and the ones I had class with and talked to who would go through two a days, practice/weights at 6am and come to class had my respect. I think this could be a special Program with the right coaches and if they pick and develop the right players. Time will tell with this iteration/coaching staff.
 
Georgis are some annoying little dogs.

You can tell we are different from the big football mills just looking at the conversation in this thread. The only time academics for players is mentioned on their boards is when it affects eligibility.

If you fo get a Georgi get 2 to keep each other company (i.e. Georgis)
 
OptionJacket said:
This is just wrong. Times change and so do priorities. Everyone else adapted to the changing times and GT and many of its fans are expecting todays society to have the same values as the 1950’s. Listen, I wish we did - we agree. But that’s a fantasy land and the modern athlete does not care about any of that. Here‘s the heart of the matter - today’s D1 P5 major sport college athletes are not student-athletes. They are athletes first and then some of them actually pursue a degree. We do not stink at football because of studies. We stink at football because we haven’t yet accepted what today has become. That’s on us and isn’t a fault of any other team. Bama, UGA, Tenn, Auburn, FSU all have adapted while we still have our eyes closed and think it’s 1954.

Whats gets me is the totally hypocritical way GT behaves. We scream “student-athlete” and whine about the course work, yet we allowed a person like Deivon Smith transfer to GT then transfer right out all so he could play hoops for about 3 months. If we want to be pure then be pure. And we just took in a bunch of football players who will portal out come January. We stink because every high end high school athlete knows we aren’t committed to today‘s game. And no one with better options, especially todays pampered athletes, wants to be in a wishy washy situation.
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It's because the decision of how much to weigh the importance of academics isn't just 1 person's consistent vision. It's multiple people with different views of what it should be.

Most fans want us to be both, but that's a rather non-descript objective. I think cpj struck a good balance, but to achieve such a goal we'd need to have one of the biggest recruiting offices in the acc. Instead we have one of the smallest.

I think the vision is still worth pursuing as it sets us apart and leverages our strengths. We aren't a "good school" where people duck academics for 6 years and avoid graduating. We aren't a big state school thats just a "piece of paper." But it's a hard path.
 
Why can't there be both? We can be an elite school with a very small number of sports-first students. 100-150 athletes are not going to affect the academics of the broader student body or the school. Why can't there be extremely high general standards that we all love for the typical students- the vast, vast majority, but some way to be football first for the best athletes (either a certain degree, etc.)?

I am having a hard time telling whether this is something we don't want to do or something we can't do.
 
NIL and the player portal have been the nails in the coffin to all but 15-20 Football Factories. CFB has been changed. It’s no longer college at all.
 
Tampa Jacket said:
NIL and the player portal have been the nails in the coffin to all but 15-20 Football Factories. CFB has been changed. It’s no longer college at all.
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We should just fast forward to the inevitable: a premier league of the 15-20 factories and an amateur league with the rest.
 
gtphd said:
We should just fast forward to the inevitable: a premier league of the 15-20 factories and an amateur league with the rest.
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Agree. But I’d replace the word “premier” with “professional”.
 
gt9589 said:
You just said what I was saying, just in a different way. You just said the factories are catering to athletes and not looking at academics. At a place like GT your typical blue chipper 5 star would never make it here academically. In my 30+ years following GT FB as a student and alumnus we’ve always known that our school is not for the athlete that doesn’t care about school. I’ve just reiterated what we all know and that changes in the landscape such as the NIL have made it harder. I’m certainly not one of those that ‘whines’ about our coursework. Our players and the ones I had class with and talked to who would go through two a days, practice/weights at 6am and come to class had my respect. I think this could be a special Program with the right coaches and if they pick and develop the right players. Time will tell with this iteration/coaching staff.
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Yeah, you are right. We are saying very similar things. Except I am saying GT should absolutely offer degrees for athletes so we can win and improve the GT brand. That’s where GT has stuck its head in the sand, Every other school we use to compete with has created courses of work for athletes who care nothing about their future after their playing days are over. GT hasn’t done that which is why we don’t get high end players (with a very few exceptions like Calvin).

If Cabrera wanted to have a lasting impact on athletics after he is gone he should push through some majors that sound good during a 30 second sound clip on TV broadcast but doesn’t require any work - like every serious football school does. Or just tell us you don’t plan to actually compete so we can all set our expectations properly.
 
OptionJacket said:
Yeah, you are right. We are saying very similar things. Except I am saying GT should absolutely offer degrees for athletes so we can win and improve the GT brand. That’s where GT has stuck its head in the sand, Every other school we use to compete with has created courses of work for athletes who care nothing about their future after their playing days are over. GT hasn’t done that which is why we don’t get high end players (with a very few exceptions like Calvin).

If Cabrera wanted to have a lasting impact on athletics after he is gone he should push through some majors that sound good during a 30 second sound clip on TV broadcast but doesn’t require any work - like every serious football school does. Or just tell us you don’t plan to actually compete so we can all set our expectations properly.
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I support that too. I think we should have more majors as well. Like ND, Dook and Stanford. Nothing made me more angry when the UGAY dominated BOR voted to let UGAY start their own school of engineering, which certainly isn’t anything close to ours but they could walk into a recruit’s living room and say they had that major too. Stetson Bennett and others are proof you can spend 7 years in college, exhaust all of your eligibility and still not graduate. Reality of a factory. Laughable and sad.
 
gt9589 said:
I support that too. I think we should have more majors as well. Like ND, Dook and Stanford. Nothing made me more angry when the UGAY dominated BOR voted to let UGAY start their own school of engineering, which certainly isn’t anything close to ours but they could walk into a recruit’s living room and say they had that major too. Stetson Bennett and others are proof you can spend 7 years in college, exhaust all of your eligibility and still not graduate. Reality of a factory. Laughable and sad.
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Well, my bad then. I’m just so use to just about everyone here blaming everything for our failures except where it belongs - those who run GT. I’ve made this comparison before but if GT’s mechanical or industrial engineering rankings dropped into the 70’s there would be heads rolling and all night meetings taking place. Yet, when someone “googles” Georgia Tech news every listing is about sports and it’s been nothing but abysmal news for years. And those who run our school are fine with that.

And I do not think it is “laughable or sad” which may be where we disagree slightly. College has changed over the decades and involves a lot more than it did 60 years ago. Imagine what those old guys think of “online” classes. Other schools have figured out that the college experience is about more than just studies. They’ve also monetized the events that bring the most people to campus. I see nothing wrong with that and do not see where it is sad. If an athlete or their parents are fine with them getting a worthless piece of paper after 4 to 7 years of playing sports then so am I. It’s a fair exchange - the athlete gets to be treated like a king for 4-7 years in their youth, the school makes millions, and the alum get to beat their chest. It’s an equal exchange. I could care less what becomes of a player after he is done playing. I know that sounds cold, but it’s just reality. We all have our own family to worry about so I sure ain’t losing any sleep regarding the circumstances of a 35 year old former GT player who may not have taken advantage of his time at GT.
 
KingsGambit said:
Or simply broadening our curriculum to allow Phys. Ed. majors, etc. That would help in a lot of ways athletically. But the BOR prevented that about a decade ago and so now we have a partnership with G.State to accomplish education majors. Not sure that is allowed for athletes since that would mean taking courses at another school.
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It started before that with the BOR. It may have gone under a different name then, but the equivalent of the BOR refused to allow Tech to add a school of commerce, giving it instead to the cesspool, and later creating Ga State. That was sometime in the 30s, I think.
 
I think a lot of you are missing a very significant point. Even if Cabrera and whoever were willing to create degree programs that would attract more athletes, the GA BOR has to approve it, and they won't. The most recent example of their abusive power was allowing the cesspool to offer a couple of engineering degrees, and, as I said in another post, this crap has been going on almost 100 years, back to when the equivalent of the BOR refused it when Tech wanted to create a school of commerce. Adding that engineering program in Athens didn't help with their athletics, and it really didn't hurt ours. But since it is virtually impossible to get into Tech these days (they even reject "legacy" candidates with 4.0 (or whatever scale they use) HS grades. That definitely affects the fan base, and that is at least partially due to Tech choosing to go down that path. But they allow UGA to add whatever they want, whether academically sound or not, and they refuse to allow Tech to add whatever we might want. Like it or not, and I both do and don't like it, Tech is always going to be known for academics, and for us to excel in athletics, mainly football, it's going to require some very creative minds in the Tech administration, or a lot fairer treatment by the BOR.
 
covingtonjacket said:
Why can't there be both? We can be an elite school with a very small number of sports-first students. 100-150 athletes are not going to affect the academics of the broader student body or the school. Why can't there be extremely high general standards that we all love for the typical students- the vast, vast majority, but some way to be football first for the best athletes (either a certain degree, etc.)?

I am having a hard time telling whether this is something we don't want to do or something we can't do.
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Depends. If the athletes all steer towards a largely useless academic track (lcc, polysci, hts) then they can have easy classes and focus on football. If they want to take an engineering track they're gonna struggle if they don't have the chops.

Mgmt/business seems to be a good middle point right now of being easier but also worthwhile. It's hard to explain to the BOR or alumni that we need a useless major to hide 200 athletes so we can compete in football - it seems to rather betray the purpose of being a school.
 
I disagree with the attitude that TECH can never be great again in athletics cuz this and that rules restrictions academics bullshit argument. Honestly I don't understand the argument. How doe s that not make us better? Isn't that a management issue? Yes, it is. That's why what CBK is doing is so exciting it's because he KNOWS what Tech is and he knows how hard you have to fight for what you know is right and good. It's not easy. In the land of the SEC? In the messed up ACC? It's not easy but you never quit. You fight.
 
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