Georgis Tech Football Dominance

[stinger78]

or excuse makers are too stuck in mud. in the age of NIL if we've learned anything it should be you got to make your own rules, and we're Georgia Tech, we can do that. stetson went to school for 6 years and didn't graduate. there's obviously ways to cheat the system and make it easier for SAs to let the big uglies on the field if you want to be competitive. or not, up to the institute. academic rigor can't be an excuse anymore in today's landscape if you want to win football games.

First, we don't know that Stetson didn't nab a piece of paper somewhere along the line, we just cannot see it. Second, even if not, he is one of almost 100 players. That is such an anomaly that one cannot seriously consider it a method of increasing competitiveness.

I think rather than finding ways to cheat the system, we need to work hard to position ourselves as a top option for S-A's who do have academic abilities. There are plenty, and we've done it before. We have majors for those who are not Einstein and we have tutors for those who have need. We do need to have one of the biggest recruiting budgets on the planet to do so. This is where the admin could really help GA Tech football along with granting more exceptions. IMPO.

 

[covingtonjacket]

I think past history shows that we can not get anything we want.

Has the BoR actually shot down proposed degree programs? I always hear this (and the logic of the BoR being dominated by dwags makes sense), but I have not seen anything concrete in the last four or five decades to back this up. We should definitely propose what we want and make them publicly shoot it down.

 

[zippyGT]

I agree with your tone. Ga politics are still backwards.
However I believe when ugagotengineering, Techcould have gotten anything it wanted. We blew it . We probably can still get anything but we continue to blow it.

uGA first received an engineering school in exchange for Tech getting an MBA. uGA expanded in 2010 when the BOR was almost entirely uGA graduates. We didn’t get anything that time.

 

[manjano mdudu]

uGA first received an engineering school in exchange for Tech getting an MBA. uGA expanded in 2010 when the BOR was almost entirely uGA graduates. We didn’t get anything that time.

The vote to allow UGA's engineering school, which passed despite active efforts by GT to prevent it, passed with an 8-7 vote... The tie-breaking vote in favor of the proposal was by the Chair, a GT graduate.

 

[zippyGT]

And let’s never forget that Michael Adams’ argument for an engineering school was that GT engineers make too much money and central and South Georgia companies can’t afford them. uGA would churn out low cost engineers who wouldn’t compete with Tech engineers.

Remember that when some East Cobb mom says, “actually, uga is more difficult to get into these days.”

 

[manjano mdudu]

Here's what the BOR said about the need for additional in-state engineering graduates before the vote. A smaller but similar proposal was also made for Georgia Southern. Both passed. Chairman Willis Potts was the deciding vote.

Establishment of Undergraduate Degrees in Engineering, University of Georgia
Need: In Georgia, as reported by a Washington Advisory Group commissioned by the Board of Regents in 2002, nearly half of all engineering jobs in the state of Georgia are filled by graduates of out-of-state and foreign institutions. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics projects nearly an 11 percent increase in national demand for all engineers between years 2006 and 2016. The proposed degree programs will increase engineering education opportunities in Georgia for meeting its own needs and further build the state’s capacity. All programs are designed to follow ABET (formerly the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology) accreditation disciplinary guidelines in terms of content and expected student outcomes.

Looks like UGA is primarily focusing on Electrical, Mechanical, and Civil engineering.

 

[Supersize that order mutt]

Here's what the BOR said about the need for additional in-state engineering graduates before the vote. A smaller but similar proposal was also made for Georgia Southern. Both passed. Chairman Willis Potts was the deciding vote.

Establishment of Undergraduate Degrees in Engineering, University of Georgia
Need: In Georgia, as reported by a Washington Advisory Group commissioned by the Board of Regents in 2002, nearly half of all engineering jobs in the state of Georgia are filled by graduates of out-of-state and foreign institutions. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics projects nearly an 11 percent increase in national demand for all engineers between years 2006 and 2016. The proposed degree programs will increase engineering education opportunities in Georgia for meeting its own needs and further build the state’s capacity. All programs are designed to follow ABET (formerly the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology) accreditation disciplinary guidelines in terms of content and expected student outcomes.

Looks like UGA is primarily focusing on Electrical, Mechanical, and Civil engineering.

Tech pretty much created the problem that the BOR used as an excuse to give undergrad engineering program at UGA and GA Southern by capitalizing internationally on our reputation as a great engineering school. When I was a student in the 60s, it was pretty easy to get in and hard as hell to get out. Now, it's the complete opposite --- it is hard as hell to get in and seems to be much easier to get out. Because of the greatly increased numbers of both international students, and students who don't live in Georgia, even so-called "legacy" applicants are being denied entry, in spite of having the highest possible GPAs where they live. The grandson of a former HS and Tech friend of mine has a grandson with 4.0 GPA in Oklahoma, and he was rejected. The son of a Tech friend I used to work with has a 4.0 (or whatever the max is) here in Augusta, and he was rejected also. More and more, kids inside the state are unable to get into Tech, while the number of international and outside-the-state-of Georgia kids get accepted. With the good comes the bad, I guess, and in-state kids who want to study engineering are being "forced" to go to the cesspool or Statesboro, resulting in Tech not only losing in-state and "legacy" students, but losing fans too. Tinkering with the admission requirements and degree program for the athletes MIGHT help with recruiting, but if the rest of the students don't give a rip about sports, and we lose more fans by limited admissions within Georgia, then we will never get out of the hole, which, as I said, we dug for ourselves. It would appear to me that the only possible way out of that hole is to increase the total student population so that in-state and "legacy" kids can get admitted. But that would, in turn, require more faculty and student housing, and both cost more money. A satellite campus in the Atlanta area might help, but that costs more too. It's almost become a lose-lose-situation.

 

[RoanokeJacket]

Given the apparent idiocy of the acceptance policy I probably couldn't get in now and I graduated in 3 years with honors and zero advanced placement hours in the early 80's. My extracurricular activity was working in the grocery store. Maybe filling a token slot for geographic diversity would get me in.

 

[midatlantech]

Tech pretty much created the problem that the BOR used as an excuse to give undergrad engineering program at UGA and GA Southern by capitalizing internationally on our reputation as a great engineering school. When I was a student in the 60s, it was pretty easy to get in and hard as hell to get out. Now, it's the complete opposite --- it is hard as hell to get in and seems to be much easier to get out. Because of the greatly increased numbers of both international students, and students who don't live in Georgia, even so-called "legacy" applicants are being denied entry, in spite of having the highest possible GPAs where they live. The grandson of a former HS and Tech friend of mine has a grandson with 4.0 GPA in Oklahoma, and he was rejected. The son of a Tech friend I used to work with has a 4.0 (or whatever the max is) here in Augusta, and he was rejected also. More and more, kids inside the state are unable to get into Tech, while the number of international and outside-the-state-of Georgia kids get accepted. With the good comes the bad, I guess, and in-state kids who want to study engineering are being "forced" to go to the cesspool or Statesboro, resulting in Tech not only losing in-state and "legacy" students, but losing fans too. Tinkering with the admission requirements and degree program for the athletes MIGHT help with recruiting, but if the rest of the students don't give a rip about sports, and we lose more fans by limited admissions within Georgia, then we will never get out of the hole, which, as I said, we dug for ourselves. It would appear to me that the only possible way out of that hole is to increase the total student population so that in-state and "legacy" kids can get admitted. But that would, in turn, require more faculty and student housing, and both cost more money. A satellite campus in the Atlanta area might help, but that costs more too. It's almost become a lose-lose-situation.

I feel your pain but those kids can still get in. Go to another state school for a quarter and then transfer.

 

[stinger78]

I feel your pain but those kids can still get in. Go to another state school for a quarter and then transfer.

Yes, but...
For those of us who have this strange affection for GA Tech, that makes good sense. However, if you have no particular affection for the place and it rejects you, even with your insanely high credentials, you might not want to be part of that. There are other good-very good engineering schools around that probably want you and can place you in a very nice job as well.

 

[Supersize that order mutt]

I feel your pain but those kids can still get in. Go to another state school for a quarter and then transfer.

First of all, Tech hasn't been on the quarter system in 20 years or probably more. Secondly, that's a garbage solution, just deflecting from the real problem.

 

[BrentwoodJacket]

I feel your pain but those kids can still get in. Go to another state school for a quarter and then transfer.

If there is room for them after a semester or a year, why is there no room for them initially.

I am not convinced the international students lead to more revenue in the long run. I suspect legacy and in-state students are much more likely to contribute to GT after they graduate. I cannot recall seeing any international graduates endowing professors and scholarships.

 

[yellowbritchies]

This is just wrong. Times change and so do priorities. Everyone else adapted to the changing times and GT and many of its fans are expecting todays society to have the same values as the 1950’s. Listen, I wish we did - we agree. But that’s a fantasy land and the modern athlete does not care about any of that. Here‘s the heart of the matter - today’s D1 P5 major sport college athletes are not student-athletes. They are athletes first and then some of them actually pursue a degree. We do not stink at football because of studies. We stink at football because we haven’t yet accepted what today has become. That’s on us and isn’t a fault of any other team. Bama, UGA, Tenn, Auburn, FSU all have adapted while we still have our eyes closed and think it’s 1954.

Whats gets me is the totally hypocritical way GT behaves. We scream “student-athlete” and whine about the course work, yet we allowed a person like Deivon Smith transfer to GT then transfer right out all so he could play hoops for about 3 months. If we want to be pure then be pure. And we just took in a bunch of football players who will portal out come January. We stink because every high end high school athlete knows we aren’t committed to today‘s game. And no one with better options, especially todays pampered athletes, wants to be in a wishy washy situation.

Pretty well says it all. Most Tech grads have their head in the sand and don't want to degrade their diploma by loosing up on recruiting standards. We want players that can put us in the winners circle, but don't have the avenues to get them there!

 

[clapper]

If there is room for them after a semester or a year, why is there no room for them initially.

The metrics show that people will leave, and it puts a body in the pipeline to immediately replace them that is on close to the same track.

 

[nfGoldmember]

The metrics show that people will leave, and it puts a body in the pipeline to immediately replace them that is on close to the same track.

I don't think that is the primary reason. I think that GT along with just about everyone else plays games with the academic profile of their admitted freshmen. The rejected students who transfer in have typically slightly worse standardized test scores, AP classes, etc... so they are not included in the freshmen class if they transfer in. Your typical freshmen, from metro Atlanta at least, has a 1500 SAT score and 10 - 12 AP classes. Having one or both parents having attended GT means nothing anymore regarding admissions and the GT admission office will tell you as much.

 

[nfGoldmember]

If there is room for them after a semester or a year, why is there no room for them initially.

I am not convinced the international students lead to more revenue in the long run. I suspect legacy and in-state students are much more likely to contribute to GT after they graduate. I cannot recall seeing any international graduates endowing professors and scholarships.

Of course on avegage in state and certainly children of alumni will be more involved, give more money, etc.. For whatever reason GT doesn't care.

 

[midatlantech]

If there is room for them after a semester or a year, why is there no room for them initially.

I am not convinced the international students lead to more revenue in the long run. I suspect legacy and in-state students are much more likely to contribute to GT after they graduate. I cannot recall seeing any international graduates endowing professors and scholarships.

Well who do you think is paying for the millions the academic side just coughed up?

 

[midatlantech]

Pretty well says it all. Most Tech grads have their head in the sand and don't want to degrade their diploma by loosing up on recruiting standards. We want players that can put us in the winners circle, but don't have the avenues to get them there!

I agree but the money is so big now and schools like UGA, Bama, Florida are rising up the rankings… Money matters. Why else would anyone go to ND, paid for by football for 100 years.

 

[OptionJacket]

or excuse makers are too stuck in mud. in the age of NIL if we've learned anything it should be you got to make your own rules, and we're Georgia Tech, we can do that. stetson went to school for 6 years and didn't graduate. there's obviously ways to cheat the system and make it easier for SAs to let the big uglies on the field if you want to be competitive. or not, up to the institute. academic rigor can't be an excuse anymore in today's landscape if you want to win football games.

This is it in a nutshell. We are in a rinse and repeat cycle. The only way to win, like top 15 win, is to allow idiots into school and keep them eligible. Everyone else figured this out except GT. Bobby Ross and Bobby Cremins knew it which is why we won. Then shortly after the GT admin set on a mission to destroy our athletics and they succeeded.

 

[Supersize that order mutt]

I don't think that is the primary reason. I think that GT along with just about everyone else plays games with the academic profile of their admitted freshmen. The rejected students who transfer in have typically slightly worse standardized test scores, AP classes, etc... so they are not included in the freshmen class if they transfer in. Your typical freshmen, from metro Atlanta at least, has a 1500 SAT score and 10 - 12 AP classes. Having one or both parents having attended GT means nothing anymore regarding admissions and the GT admission office will tell you as much.

I agree that legacy applicants should not be automatically admitted, but the two I mentioned in my earlier post both had exemplary (HIGHEST) academic credentials and were still rejected. That just doesn't make sense to me.