Hard to beat the cheaters

TampaBayJacket said:
Since this has happened for 50+ years in college football, is it *really* ruining the sport?
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I guess the level of money has reached such a point that I find it disgusting. Maybe that level is different for everyone. But it gets harder and harder to turn a blind eye to.

As a kid watching the game, I didn’t know about the money in it. And there wasn’t as much money in it. It appeared the players loved their school and that education was a much higher priority for many of them. Sportsmanship was shown at games.

Football doesn’t look anything like that now. And it just seems like you have to turn a blind eye to more and more while you chase the nostalgic reasons to watch football. And that’s why it is being ruined for me.
 
BuzzLaw said:
I guess the level of money has reached such a point that I find it disgusting. Maybe that level is different for everyone. But it gets harder and harder to turn a blind eye to.

As a kid watching the game, I didn’t know about the money in it. And there wasn’t as much money in it. It appeared the players loved their school and that education was a much higher priority for many of them. Sportsmanship was shown at games.

Football doesn’t look anything like that now. And it just seems like you have to turn a blind eye to more and more while you chase the nostalgic reasons to watch football. And that’s why it is being ruined for me.
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I hate it too. I wish these players were real students who love their school and want an education. Unfortunately, reality is most of the players at football factories are there just to play football and not to "play school". Getting paid is a bonus and probably justified for the health risks they take. Oh well, I prefer to watch the best athletes possible play the game rather than go back to the 50s where players were small and slow but real students.
 
TampaBayJacket said:
I hate it too. I wish these players were real students who love their school and want an education. Unfortunately, reality is most of the players at football factories are there just to play football and not to "play school". Getting paid is a bonus and probably justified for the health risks they take. Oh well, I prefer to watch the best athletes possible play the game rather than go back to the 50s where players were small and slow but real students.
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To each his own. Am I correct to assume you watch more NFL than college?
 
BuzzLaw said:
I guess the level of money has reached such a point that I find it disgusting. Maybe that level is different for everyone. But it gets harder and harder to turn a blind eye to.

As a kid watching the game, I didn’t know about the money in it. And there wasn’t as much money in it. It appeared the players loved their school and that education was a much higher priority for many of them. Sportsmanship was shown at games.

Football doesn’t look anything like that now. And it just seems like you have to turn a blind eye to more and more while you chase the nostalgic reasons to watch football. And that’s why it is being ruined for me.
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That, and the fact that we're 36 point underdogs to Clempsen.
 
TampaBayJacket said:
Since this has happened for 50+ years in college football, is it *really* ruining the sport?
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No, but things have gone steadily downhill since the inception of the BCS. I don't think that even the NCAA realized how much money would be generated by that move. Greed dictated that four was more better than two, and they are now dreaming of expanding the playoffs again. The "Alabama model" of increased tuition paying enrollment looks too good for many college presidents.
 
BuzzLaw said:
I wasn’t talking about capping how much they can make. But I like the idea of a nfl minor league that will allow players that don’t care about/can’t get into college to play and get paid.
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Yep.....I've wanted a minor league for years. I wish that is what the XFL could be.
 
I watch lots of football at all levels. High School, College, CFL, NFL, etc...... College football is the one I WANT to love the most but when I really think about the issues the NCAA is the one that truly feels dirty.
 
BuzzLaw said:
Players are slaves working their asses off so their masters can get paid.
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A little over the top dontcha think? Had I the talent, I would have gladly played football for the free education. These kids are treated like royalty - far from slaves. Minor league baseball players make peanuts. It ain’t like if there were a minor league football system the players would rake in millions. Would a few? Yes. Most would not come close, and wouldn’t get a valuable education in the process either, setting them up to $80k.

You should read a little bit about slavery. I don’t think you understand it.
 
ClubSeats said:
A little over the top dontcha think? Had I the talent, I would have gladly played football for the free education. These kids are treated like royalty - far from slaves. Minor league baseball players make peanuts. It ain’t like if there were a minor league football system the players would rake in millions. Would a few? Yes. Most would not come close, and wouldn’t get a valuable education in the process either, setting them up to $80k.

You should read a little bit about slavery. I don’t think you understand it.
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I think it’s kind of strange that Ole Miss changed their mascot from a confederate general to a black bear. And all the black athletes are on the field performing for the white folks watching.

But, you’re 100% correct. The players are not slaves literally. Not even close. And the system isn’t racist. Not even close. It’s all about money. That’s it. I shouldn’t make comments about slavery or racism in today’s society. They get taken too seriously.

Putting all that aside, we live in America. We have a free market system. If you’re a great chemist and DuPont wants to pay you a million dollars while you go to school, I assume you can do that. But not if you’re a football player. That’s not right.
 
BuzzLaw said:
I think it’s kind of strange that Ole Miss changed their mascot from a confederate general to a black bear. And all the black athletes are on the field performing for the white folks watching.
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Would a polar bear have been better? How about a panda?

BuzzLaw said:
But, you’re 100% correct.
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I stopped reading here.
 
BuzzLaw said:
My original post was to put everything in the light and let players get paid according to the free market. If we are willing to pony up $1million, and Alabama is willing to pony up $3million, we won’t be winning many championships. But we will know why and where we need to be if we find football important enough.

I freely admit I don’t have all the answers, but it’s evident that the current system:
(1) doesn’t prevent massive cheating;
(2) doesn’t hand down consistent punishments to those who do cheat;
(3) doesn’t make education a priority;
(4) is designed to have as much money as possible pumped into the institutions.

Ncaa is the mob. Many student athletes aren’t students. Colleges don’t care. Players are slaves working their asses off so their masters can get paid.
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BuzzLaw is as on target. The NCAA became a joke when they were able to negotiate obscenely rich contracts for the rights to their championships and their member conferences could do the same for their broadcast rights. They now are far more concerned with protecting revenue than with fairness or balancing academic integrity with athletics. Once maximizing revenue became their goal, they exist to keep the brand strong. Hence, Alabama and other big SEC programs and schools like Ohio State and Michigan, ND, Oklahoma, Texas and a few others are protected. Those that threaten them get punished - can I get an “Amen” from the Mississippi schools? In basketball UNC and Duke get the same protection. Is there not ample evidence that Zion Williamson should have been ineligible or that UNC should have vacated a few wins and titles?

I realize paying market price with everything above the table could end or greatly change college sports. But I trust the invisible hand of the free market far more than the corrupt and greedy hand of the cartel known as the NCAA. If we could not afford to pay $250,000 for a college QB we would likely affiliate with and play schools paying more in our price range. Maybe that would be awful. But, do you like what we have? If so, continue on. The Washington Generals at least got to play the Globetrotters and make a little money themselves.
 
I don't believe for one minute that the players at Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, Michigan, wherever, are getting illicit money with the approval of the head coach.

What's weird is that people will say I'm naive – but in fact, there's nothing more naive than to accept anonymous sources which fail to produce evidence, to listen to gossip which is never brought into the open to be tested, to accept at face value sources with ulterior motives, etc. That is the very definition of childish credulity.

No doubt there are some bad-egg boosters out there who do things illegally. But the Top 20 schools have roughly 1,700 kids on scholarship in any given year. There's no way in heck they're all getting five- and six-figure handouts. Imagine all the refunds Texas and Tennessee boosters must have been demanding in recent years!
 
18in32 said:
I don't believe for one minute that the players at Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, Michigan, wherever, are getting illicit money with the approval of the head coach.

What's weird is that people will say I'm naive – but in fact, there's nothing more naive than to accept anonymous sources which fail to produce evidence, to listen to gossip which is never brought into the open to be tested, to accept at face value sources with ulterior motives, etc. That is the very definition of childish credulity.

No doubt there are some bad-egg boosters out there who do things illegally. But the Top 20 schools have roughly 1,700 kids on scholarship in any given year. There's no way in heck they're all getting five- and six-figure handouts. Imagine all the refunds Texas and Tennessee boosters must have been demanding in recent years!
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So when a coach sees his player leaving practice in an $80k car, he thinks it’s all on the up and up? Even when his house visit to that player was in the projects?
 
BuzzLaw said:
So when a coach sees his player leaving practice in an $80k car, he thinks it’s all on the up and up? Even when his house visit to that player was in the projects?
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If you've got a specific situation, let's talk about it. In general...? Well of course, there are some bad-egg boosters who flout the rules – there aren't any rules in this world that don't get broken. But to assume "everyone's in on it" is ridiculous. Coaches and staffs spend a huge amount of time monitoring compliance – if you've ever given money to the GTAA you know they provide you with lectures about what kind of contact with the S/A's is OK and what kind is not.

Just think for a minute about the economics of it... for every winner like Cam Newton who allegedly got paid to choose his school, there would be equal or more highly-rated recruits who don't pan out. Do you really think boosters are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to lure a kid to their school when so many of those kids don't end up being very good? Dear Lord, think of all the money UGA boosters would have wasted over the years!

Or for that matter, consider the incentives for head coaches. Of course they all want to win and get paid a lot to win. But they also usually have multi-million dollar buyouts which they collect even if they lose games – but not if they are caught cheating. There's a huge incentive for coaches to run clean programs because they walk away from millions if they don't.
 
18in32 said:
If you've got a specific situation, let's talk about it. In general...? Well of course, there are some bad-egg boosters who flout the rules – there aren't any rules in this world that don't get broken. But to assume "everyone's in on it" is ridiculous. Coaches and staffs spend a huge amount of time monitoring compliance – if you've ever given money to the GTAA you know they provide you with lectures about what kind of contact with the S/A's is OK and what kind is not.

Just think for a minute about the economics of it... for every winner like Cam Newton who allegedly got paid to choose his school, there would be equal or more highly-rated recruits who don't pan out. Do you really think boosters are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to lure a kid to their school when so many of those kids don't end up being very good? Dear Lord, think of all the money UGA boosters would have wasted over the years!

Or for that matter, consider the incentives for head coaches. Of course they all want to win and get paid a lot to win. But they also usually have multi-million dollar buyouts which they collect even if they lose games – but not if they are caught cheating. There's a huge incentive for coaches to run clean programs because they walk away from millions if they don't.
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You’re right about the coaches keeping up with the players. And that’s why I find it hard to believe the coaches aren’t aware when the players are walking around with more money and stuff than they can afford. They either look into it and report it or become complicit or they ignore it.

Jim Tressel says hello by the way. As does Trent Richardson, Cam Newton, that dude from ole miss, etc.
 
18in32 said:
If you've got a specific situation, let's talk about it. In general...? Well of course, there are some bad-egg boosters who flout the rules – there aren't any rules in this world that don't get broken. But to assume "everyone's in on it" is ridiculous. Coaches and staffs spend a huge amount of time monitoring compliance – if you've ever given money to the GTAA you know they provide you with lectures about what kind of contact with the S/A's is OK and what kind is not.

Just think for a minute about the economics of it... for every winner like Cam Newton who allegedly got paid to choose his school, there would be equal or more highly-rated recruits who don't pan out. Do you really think boosters are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to lure a kid to their school when so many of those kids don't end up being very good? Dear Lord, think of all the money UGA boosters would have wasted over the years!

Or for that matter, consider the incentives for head coaches. Of course they all want to win and get paid a lot to win. But they also usually have multi-million dollar buyouts which they collect even if they lose games – but not if they are caught cheating. There's a huge incentive for coaches to run clean programs because they walk away from millions if they don't.
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Speaking of uga, I’m sure the running backs from Texas and California that are highly ranked want to go to Athens with the other highly ranked Georgia running back because of the multiple national championships Georgia has won, and the fact the coach is defensive minded, and they don’t even know the offensive coordinator. They flew over USC, UCLA, Texas, A&M, Oklahoma, Alabama, Auburn GT, Clemson, FSU, etc because Athens is just so great. I’m not buying it. I think if you do then you are being naive. And it’s gotten worse since Kirby arrived which makes me think that, not only is he aware of it, but he set it up himself.
 
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