Has Paul Johnson struggled calling the offensive plays

optionqb said:
One problem I see with his play calling is the diversity of plays. I've watched Johnson's teams over many years and it seems like he's actually reduced the variety of plays he calls on a consistent basis. There are two general types of plays that I rarely, if ever, see him call anymore. Intermediate pass plays and screen passes. The screen pass is probably the most consistently glaring hole in the offensive playbook. On 3rd and long he seems to have only 2 plays: QB keep (with a lead blocker) and a "scramble and chuck it long" pass play.
Click to expand...

Yep. Speaking of the screen pass or short pass, this type of play is against the grain of what we try to do AND it has high probability to gain the QB confidence. The fact were not running it is just silly.
 
BarrelORum said:
Yep. Speaking of the screen pass or short pass, this type of play is against the grain of what we try to do AND it has high probability to gain the QB confidence. The fact were not running it is just silly.
Click to expand...

This has been discussed ad nauseum on this board.. The screen pass isn't as effective for us because the d is always up on the line covering the rocket toss, etc. The play would result in short yardage gains and not bring much more than running the ball. We don't really gain much by trying this.
 
MidtownJacket said:
This has been discussed ad nauseum on this board.. The screen pass isn't as effective for us because the d is always up on the line covering the rocket toss, etc. The play would result in short yardage gains and not bring much more than running the ball. We don't really gain much by trying this.
Click to expand...

You make it look like you are setting up the screen (or reverse), then the QB turns to the other side and hits the wide open WR on a fly, drag or inside slant route behind the cheating LB and DB
 
optionqb said:
One problem I see with his play calling is the diversity of plays. I've watched Johnson's teams over many years and it seems like he's actually reduced the variety of plays he calls on a consistent basis. There are two general types of plays that I rarely, if ever, see him call anymore. Intermediate pass plays and screen passes. The screen pass is probably the most consistently glaring hole in the offensive playbook. On 3rd and long he seems to have only 2 plays: QB keep (with a lead blocker) and a "scramble and chuck it long" pass play.
Click to expand...

The complete passes in the Pitt game were 7, 15, 9, 11 and 42. I remember at least one screen pass, which may have been dropped. This year, not just Vad, but Smelter's route-running has been a big issue.

I think Tevin's lack of arm strength made those intermediate routes a lot tougher. But still, here's the pass yardages against Clemson last year: 7, 53, 12, 16 (TD), 7, 6, 5, 32, 6. Against Georgia, 20, 12, 5 , 7, 6, 5. Against FSU: 18, 32, 17, 9. Games where the offense struggled less did have the "scramble and chuck it" variety, or 4 verticals, because if the offense is getting 8 yards a play, why would you risk a 10 yard pass?
 
MidtownJacket said:
This has been discussed ad nauseum on this board.. The screen pass isn't as effective for us because the d is always up on the line covering the rocket toss, etc. The play would result in short yardage gains and not bring much more than running the ball. We don't really gain much by trying this.
Click to expand...

I don't imagine that Rocket Toss is ran much on 3rd and long (or 4th and long). It's a special down and distance kind of play. 3rd and long in particular. It's meant to burn an overly aggressive pass rush (even more so if they dog LBs or blitz DBs.)

GT has problems pass-blocking. This is a universally know fact. A screen pass is a useful play because the opponents D-line is not "tipped off" as easily against a poor pass-blocking line. They simply assume that they are quickly beating the man in front of them.

With 5 receivers going out on pass routes, 1 (or even 2) can remain behind the line-of-scrimmage for the pass. The O-line can take a short drop-step, plant themselves, deliver a blow with the palms, and simply let the D-lineman fight their way around them. The moment that the D-lineman beats them, the fire down field to block the first man that crosses their path. Techs o-line should actually excel at this part as their lighter weight/better average speed should benefit them when they block in open space.

I'm not saying that this should necessarily become a routine play, but it's one that should be practiced and used at least once every 2 to 3 games. Unless I'm missing something, it's used far less frequently than that.
 
optionqb said:
I don't imagine that Rocket Toss is ran much on 3rd and long (or 4th and long). It's a special down and distance kind of play. 3rd and long in particular. It's meant to burn an overly aggressive pass rush (even more so if they dog LBs or blitz DBs.)

GT has problems pass-blocking. This is a universally know fact. A screen pass is a useful play because the opponents D-line is not "tipped off" as easily against a poor pass-blocking line. They simply assume that they are quickly beating the man in front of them.

With 5 receivers going out on pass routes, 1 (or even 2) can remain behind the line-of-scrimmage for the pass. The O-line can take a short drop-step, plant themselves, deliver a blow with the palms, and simply let the D-lineman fight their way around them. The moment that the D-lineman beats them, the fire down field to block the first man that crosses their path. Techs o-line should actually excel at this part as their lighter weight/better average speed should benefit them when they block in open space.

I'm not saying that this should necessarily become a routine play, but it's one that should be practiced and used at least once every 2 to 3 games. Unless I'm missing something, it's used far less frequently than that.
Click to expand...

There's never 5 receivers going out for a pass, unless there's some seldom-used hail mary package. The B-Back is always behind blocking and for draws. And we have definitely run draws on third and long.
 
floridajacket said:
There's never 5 receivers going out for a pass, unless there's some seldom-used hail mary package. The B-Back is always behind blocking and for draws. And we have definitely run draws on third and long.
Click to expand...

That's precisely why one should send him out on a route. Let him step up to "block" (perhaps just a minor "chip" on a DE or LB), then he can turn around and become a receiver. The whole point is to do something atypical. This is why it fools the defense so much.
 
optionqb said:
One problem I see with his play calling is the diversity of plays. I've watched Johnson's teams over many years and it seems like he's actually reduced the variety of plays he calls on a consistent basis. There are two general types of plays that I rarely, if ever, see him call anymore. Intermediate pass plays and screen passes. The screen pass is probably the most consistently glaring hole in the offensive playbook. On 3rd and long he seems to have only 2 plays: QB keep (with a lead blocker) and a "scramble and chuck it long" pass play.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying that CPJ is a liar when he's repeatedly claimed that the QB was throwing it to the wrong guy on many of those long pass plays?

From day one, CPJ has explained his pass-offense as being built on run and shoot concepts. Run and shoot concepts are philosophically related to option concepts in that they are intended to stress the defense leading to receivers being uncovered or in man coverage. Your claim that "scramble and chuck it long" is a CPJ pass-play just seems ignorant to me.

As far as the lack of short and intermediate pass routes and screens, I'm not sure what games you're watching. In the game against Pitt, 3rd and 5 in the first possession, we threw a quick hitch route to Smelter for 7yds (no yac). Second possession, Vad threw a 15 yard pass to Smelter. Fourth possession, Vad throws a 9 yd pass to Godhigh. 3rd qtr, Vad connects on a screen pass to Laskey which went for 11 yds.
 
If we win vs VT, this thread doesn't exist.

And that's largely because Bud Foster owns CPJ.

We need Foster to hurry up and get a job somewhere. Preferably on the west coast.
 
AE 87 said:
3rd qtr, Vad connects on a screen pass to Laskey which went for 11 yds.
Click to expand...

optionqb said:
That's precisely why one should send him out on a route. Let him step up to "block" (perhaps just a minor "chip" on a DE or LB), then he can turn around and become a receiver. The whole point is to do something atypical. This is why it fools the defense so much.
Click to expand...

Hmm.
 
beej67 said:
If we win vs VT, this thread doesn't exist.

And that's largely because Bud Foster owns CPJ.

We need Foster to hurry up and get a job somewhere. Preferably on the west coast.
Click to expand...

You may very well be the only person who thinks all our false starts and turnovers resulted from Bud Foster out-scheming CPJ.
 
AE 87 said:
So, you're saying that CPJ is a liar when he's repeatedly claimed that the QB was throwing it to the wrong guy on many of those long pass plays?

From day one, CPJ has explained his pass-offense as being built on run and shoot concepts. Run and shoot concepts are philosophically related to option concepts in that they are intended to stress the defense leading to receivers being uncovered or in man coverage. Your claim that "scramble and chuck it long" is a CPJ pass-play just seems ignorant to me.

As far as the lack of short and intermediate pass routes and screens, I'm not sure what games you're watching. In the game against Pitt, 3rd and 5 in the first possession, we threw a quick hitch route to Smelter for 7yds (no yac). Second possession, Vad threw a 15 yard pass to Smelter. Fourth possession, Vad throws a 9 yd pass to Godhigh. 3rd qtr, Vad connects on a screen pass to Laskey which went for 11 yds.
Click to expand...

The "15 yard pass" to Smelter was a post-route...that's a deep route. Yes, there was a screen pass to Laskey, but my whole point is the rarity of the play. It was a great call (even though Laskey used his blocks poorly). That's the only screen pass I've seen on 3rd down this year. Are there others? Maybe, I don't recall seeing them. There are way too many pass-plays that turn into long-ball throws (whether Johnson intends them to or not). I haven't seen many screen passes this year. Some others here seem to be noticing a conspicuous lack of them as well. Maybe that will change. I hope so.

I can understand the lack of true intermediate routes. Most of GTs passes come off play-action. On those he wants to typically go deep. When you call drop-back passes, the protection needed to allow intermediate routes to get open is high.
 
BarrelORum said:
Who cares about the push. Don't derail the thread topic over something so stupid. Start your own thread about PJ pushing players. See what type of reaction you get there. LEt me save you the trouble... most people will think you're being an idiot.
Click to expand...

Hey, I started a topic a couple of weeks ago about Clemson being vulnerable, and everybody started talking about Reggie Ball. It's the StingTalk way.
 
There have been more screen passes and they were all dropped. This is the first reception on a screen pass.
 
AE 87 said:
You may very well be the only person who thinks all our false starts and turnovers resulted from Bud Foster out-scheming CPJ.
Click to expand...

You may be the only person who doesn't know PJs record versus VT.
 
Struggle calling plays? Perhaps, but it appears to be more of an issue for the team to execute the called play.
 
BarrelORum said:
to suit Vad Lee's strengths?

Obviously we are running more formations that Vad Lee likes like the Pistol and Diamond. But do you think PJ has struggled calling the offense this year? We have a QB who isn't necessarily inclined to maximize the potential of the TO particularly the mesh read from the flexbone.

It seems to me that PJ has struggled calling the games this year moreso than in past years. Discuss.
Click to expand...

I suppose you could argue what "struggle" means. I'll ramble for a bit before getting back to this.

Tim Stowers makes a great point in his book, "Coaching the spread offense": the triple option is the bread-and-butter of an option offense, and when all else fails, the triple option is the play on which the offense should depend. I truly believe that no play in football puts more pressure on a defense than the triple. Case in point: on 3rd-and-7 in the 4th quarter of the ACCCG in 2009, we ran triple option into the boundary and converted on a pitch to Roddy. We needed a conversion and our bread-and-butter play got it for us.

As PJ has pointed out, it's not like we run the triple every other play and he's noted that it really makes up only about 15% of our total plays. We've run 639 total plays this year through 9 games, or 71 plays a game. That means we should be running the triple about 11 times a game, or roughly once per drive. That's not very often. I'm not sure how the numbers worked out in 2009 when we had the big 3, but I imagine it'd be roughly the same.

So it strikes me as funny when people say, "PJ's calling plays that sets up Vad for failure." Johnson specifically stated the last few weeks that we've been running less mesh read option plays, ostensibly to help Vad get some confidence. He knows Vad struggles with mesh reads, so why call those plays? He hasn't.

Therein lies the crux: if the triple option is the play we are supposed to depend on and the QB isn't good at the first part of it (B-Back vs. dive key), what is Johnson to do?

Let's say it's 3rd and 6. Back in the day we probably would've run the triple. If Vad's struggling with the first phase (and let's ignore footwork, OL gaffes, etc.) then PJ has to throw the triple out the window. Is that a problem? Yes and no. It certainly limits Johnson's playcalling, but balanced against that is the fact that we don't really run it 5 zillion times a game. We have a bunch of plays we can run but we just need to execute better: not whiffing a block, improving our pass pro, catching the ball (we forgive you De'Andre), properly reading coverages, and making nice throws. Let's also remember: it's not like every time we run the triple we completely fail. I do think Johnson is struggling to call plays, though, but not because Vad is having trouble with mesh reads. In my opinion, I think Johnson's getting a little frustrated with the poor execution regardless of what play he calls.

"Guess I can't call triple. How about a sprint out? Naw, we can't pass block worth crap. I know, let's go rocket. Well, Synjyn's hurt and the other A-Backs block like my momma. I could go B-Back screen ... well, there's that pass pro again ... Aw, crap. Fine, let's run the dive and get it to 4th and 3 and see what happens."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top