getwrecked
Flats Noob
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2001
- Messages
- 765
GoldZ,
"You'd see it in a different light if you had to carry the load they do for one or two semesters."
First, I NEVER said we shouldn't give them some perks. My point was that they already get plenty - how watered down do we want to make it? Second, "carry the load" they do? That old dog doesn't hunt with me. Give me a break. They get to attend for as many years as it takes basically for free. They take smaller loads than the average student and the NCAA is even LOWERING the requirement again to six hours - SIX hours - that's not even a fiull time student in many cases! I knew lots of football players when I was there, and I also knew non football players who spent more time drinking beer and chasing women (and they got out) than the football players did to satisfy their scholarships. Lots of students spend a helluva lot of time in extra-curriculars and can't afford to take a small load because they can only afford 4 years. Look at the club sports. That is a lame (but widely accepted) argument.
LLCool Jacket,
I resent the fact that you would accuse me of enjoying someone else's failure at what I have accomplished. Read my post. I'm the ONLY swinging richard on this board who has EVER given one crap about all the other people who have flunked out of Tech. ALL you'll ever hear from the other fonts is how it "builds character" and weeds out the weak and maintains our standards. THEY ONLY care about the flunkouts when they are jocks. I care about all of them - I get NO satisfaction from ANY of them flunking out. My point was why do we continually make special provisions for athletes - and when they find a way to fail - we make MORE special provisions? But it seems to be OK to flunk out the non-athletes. Does that even remotely sound like I enjoy the ones that fail?
I do believe in setting some standards and adhering to them. Too many people today don't have any standards or are willing to let them slide (basically the same thing). If you don't maintain your standards you are failing the people who violate them AND the people who have done what is necessary NOT to violate them. You have also failed yourself.
Don't confuse pride in adherence to standards with joy at someone else's misfortune. When I was in the military, I had to punish young kids all the time because they violated the standards. Many times I didn't like doing it - many times I liked them personally - but I OWED it to them and the rest of organization.
We keep hearing on the boards that "the team needs more discipline." Does that only go for the football field? Holding their hands and helping them get through academically is NOT instilling discipline. It's merely helping them get through -- and helping to teach them that a jock's life is priveleged and you can get away with certain things. Making them responsible for their own actions will INSTILL some discipline. Remember, true discipline is internal - any external pressures that make behavior conform is merely coercion.
I don't know why those guys flunked out. If they violated certain agreed standards - they should go - period. If the institute violated the agreed standards, they should be given a second chance - period. Are they still kids? Sure, to an extent. But a lot of those who carried the brunt of the War in Irag were also "kids." Who would you be more proud of? A "kid" who put his butt on the line for his country, or a "kid" who is priveleged to attend GT for free - yet has to have someone hold his hand to make sure he goes to class?
Everyone seems to be thrilled that an ex-military guy is taking over academic counseling...if he has a much different take than me, I'll be very disappointed in him.
But our society is socially constructed. While there may be some absolute rights and wrongs, they are interpreted in our daily lives in the context of our society. In regards to college athletics society has sanctioned a degree of compromise with university standards in regards to athletes. If we hope to remain competitive, we have to be able to effectively "work" that compromise. I understand all that.
Peace.
"You'd see it in a different light if you had to carry the load they do for one or two semesters."
First, I NEVER said we shouldn't give them some perks. My point was that they already get plenty - how watered down do we want to make it? Second, "carry the load" they do? That old dog doesn't hunt with me. Give me a break. They get to attend for as many years as it takes basically for free. They take smaller loads than the average student and the NCAA is even LOWERING the requirement again to six hours - SIX hours - that's not even a fiull time student in many cases! I knew lots of football players when I was there, and I also knew non football players who spent more time drinking beer and chasing women (and they got out) than the football players did to satisfy their scholarships. Lots of students spend a helluva lot of time in extra-curriculars and can't afford to take a small load because they can only afford 4 years. Look at the club sports. That is a lame (but widely accepted) argument.
LLCool Jacket,
I resent the fact that you would accuse me of enjoying someone else's failure at what I have accomplished. Read my post. I'm the ONLY swinging richard on this board who has EVER given one crap about all the other people who have flunked out of Tech. ALL you'll ever hear from the other fonts is how it "builds character" and weeds out the weak and maintains our standards. THEY ONLY care about the flunkouts when they are jocks. I care about all of them - I get NO satisfaction from ANY of them flunking out. My point was why do we continually make special provisions for athletes - and when they find a way to fail - we make MORE special provisions? But it seems to be OK to flunk out the non-athletes. Does that even remotely sound like I enjoy the ones that fail?
I do believe in setting some standards and adhering to them. Too many people today don't have any standards or are willing to let them slide (basically the same thing). If you don't maintain your standards you are failing the people who violate them AND the people who have done what is necessary NOT to violate them. You have also failed yourself.
Don't confuse pride in adherence to standards with joy at someone else's misfortune. When I was in the military, I had to punish young kids all the time because they violated the standards. Many times I didn't like doing it - many times I liked them personally - but I OWED it to them and the rest of organization.
We keep hearing on the boards that "the team needs more discipline." Does that only go for the football field? Holding their hands and helping them get through academically is NOT instilling discipline. It's merely helping them get through -- and helping to teach them that a jock's life is priveleged and you can get away with certain things. Making them responsible for their own actions will INSTILL some discipline. Remember, true discipline is internal - any external pressures that make behavior conform is merely coercion.
I don't know why those guys flunked out. If they violated certain agreed standards - they should go - period. If the institute violated the agreed standards, they should be given a second chance - period. Are they still kids? Sure, to an extent. But a lot of those who carried the brunt of the War in Irag were also "kids." Who would you be more proud of? A "kid" who put his butt on the line for his country, or a "kid" who is priveleged to attend GT for free - yet has to have someone hold his hand to make sure he goes to class?
Everyone seems to be thrilled that an ex-military guy is taking over academic counseling...if he has a much different take than me, I'll be very disappointed in him.
But our society is socially constructed. While there may be some absolute rights and wrongs, they are interpreted in our daily lives in the context of our society. In regards to college athletics society has sanctioned a degree of compromise with university standards in regards to athletes. If we hope to remain competitive, we have to be able to effectively "work" that compromise. I understand all that.
Peace.
