Interesting Holiday Bowl turn of events

ThisIsAtlanta said:
Lets be honest, these kids play for Minnesota, for the vast majority of them a lawsuit settlement is in the upper tier of their potential.
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The same could be said of 80-90% of the players at Div 1 schools. However, Minnesota does have some good talent. Their defense is actually pretty good. It's where the Falcons drafted Hageman out of. They also have quite a bit of talent from Georgia. Two of their running backs would have made a good fit at Tech. Rodney Smith, from Jonesboro, is 4th in the Big 10 at 90 yard/game as a Sophomore. Shannon Brooks is from Atlanta and would have made a great B-back. They get quite a bit of their talent from down south as Minnesota obviously isn't a hot bed of high school talent. The university has started to take a turn in the past 5+ years once they hired Jerry Kill.

Helluva Entrepreneur said:
We dont know the full details, but from what i've read, some players ran a train on this girl and there were several videos taken. The police concluded that the videos showed it all to be completely consensual, so they dropped the case. Even so, the school suspended 10 and may be expelling 4 or 5 of them. Some of the guys that were suspended were apparently not even a part of the "train", but were just in the apartment at the time. All of this apparently happening out of the blue, months after the incident happened and the case was closed.

I'm not sure the team boycott is going to accomplish anything since it's unlikely the school would cave for fear of setting a precedent, but I understand the sentiment. I know people personally affected by a college immediately siding with the accuser even in absence of evidence in cases like this, and it's really ööööty. Minnesota does not have more evidence than the police, which have already cleared the players of wrongdoing with video evidence. If Minnesota wants to play the "ethics" card to suspend/expel these guys for "actions unbecoming of a gopher", or whatever, then I would also expect the female to be expelled for willingly participating (as proven legally by police) in this "unethical" sex act, but of course that wont happen.
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You're right about a lot of it. The police did determine the girl was consenting. The players that were at fault though were given a restraining order, not because of the incident alone, but because of harassment after the fact. They were messaging her and sending the video around apparently. The reason that several of the players that were suspended that weren't even there, was because of what they did in a group chat in a discussion about/with the girl afterwards. This is a tough situation because some of the players are honestly at fault and should be punished. While some may deserve suspension, several of them weren't allowed to play any of their home games because of the restraining order (the limits of the girls residence meant that the stadium was technically off limits for the players). That in effect was a suspension. Some of the players it sounds like were just unfortunate enough to be included in a group conversation that went too far and bordered on harassment. These players are being punished but likely shouldn't be.

There weren't any conviction because it can be very hard to prove the consent angle, and our laws haven't really caught up to what counts as harassment online. My understanding was the parties came to an agreement not to press charges against anyone with the players given a restraining order as their only form of punishment.

At the end of the day, I don't think this is a black and white situation. Honestly, the school went the super conservative route to protect their reputation, but realistically several of the players probably don't deserve much more than maybe half a game suspension or nothing at all. While others are probably deserving of expulsion/long suspensions. I say this as someone who has followed the gophers closely this year. My wife now works as faculty for the university. Her office looks onto the stadium and we went to many of their games this year.
 
jacket67 said:
I am sure the University would not withhold evidence from the police, since that would constitute obstruction of justice. But there are laws to protect privacy, separate from what constitutes evidence in a criminal case, and the University also would have it's own privacy rules that pertain to students. If the University believes the athletes acted in violation of their established ethical standards, it is within their jurisdiction to suspend them. There is more to maintaining eligibility as a student athlete than just avoiding criminal prosecution.
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Amen!
 
Womenandcookies said:
The same could be said of 80-90% of the players at Div 1 schools. However, Minnesota does have some good talent. Their defense is actually pretty good. It's where the Falcons drafted Hageman out of. They also have quite a bit of talent from Georgia. Two of their running backs would have made a good fit at Tech. Rodney Smith, from Jonesboro, is 4th in the Big 10 at 90 yard/game as a Sophomore. Shannon Brooks is from Atlanta and would have made a great B-back. They get quite a bit of their talent from down south as Minnesota obviously isn't a hot bed of high school talent. The university has started to take a turn in the past 5+ years once they hired Jerry Kill.



You're right about a lot of it. The police did determine the girl was consenting. The players that were at fault though were given a restraining order, not because of the incident alone, but because of harassment after the fact. They were messaging her and sending the video around apparently. The reason that several of the players that were suspended that weren't even there, was because of what they did in a group chat in a discussion about/with the girl afterwards. This is a tough situation because some of the players are honestly at fault and should be punished. While some may deserve suspension, several of them weren't allowed to play any of their home games because of the restraining order (the limits of the girls residence meant that the stadium was technically off limits for the players). That in effect was a suspension. Some of the players it sounds like were just unfortunate enough to be included in a group conversation that went too far and bordered on harassment. These players are being punished but likely shouldn't be.

There weren't any conviction because it can be very hard to prove the consent angle, and our laws haven't really caught up to what counts as harassment online. My understanding was the parties came to an agreement not to press charges against anyone with the players given a restraining order as their only form of punishment.

At the end of the day, I don't think this is a black and white situation. Honestly, the school went the super conservative route to protect their reputation, but realistically several of the players probably don't deserve much more than maybe half a game suspension or nothing at all. While others are probably deserving of expulsion/long suspensions. I say this as someone who has followed the gophers closely this year. My wife now works as faculty for the university. Her office looks onto the stadium and we went to many of their games this year.
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Good info. It's almost criminal the complete lack of information coming out officially on these types of cases. I understand trying to protect the privacy of an alleged "victim" but the least they could do is say that (some of) the suspensions are due to an event outside of the original allegations.
 
gtleviathan said:
Good info. It's almost criminal the complete lack of information coming out officially on these types of cases. I understand trying to protect the privacy of an alleged "victim" but the least they could do is say that (some of) the suspensions are due to an event outside of the original allegations.
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But they aren't. They are almost entirely based on the fact that the woman said she was sexually assaulted and her story was deemed credible. The report is now out and able to be read. One of the reasons Her story is credible because she changed it which shows she is willing to admit mistakes. Whereas the men's story was not credible because their reports were incongruous. The police summary of a video describes her as clearly not intoxicated and clearly being ok with the sexual acts going on.

But hey what does that matter. Some men had sex with a literal slut and therefore they need to have their lives ruined. She only expressed regret after the fact. There is no signs of scuffle, resistance, struggle or anything more than playful banter.

If we don't trust the police to get sexual assault right who exactly should we trust? Should Title IX investigators be commissioned by all the cities and precincts in America now?

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/U of M EOAA redacted4.pdf

I'm not condoning the behavior of anyone. But I am vehemently against cheapening accusations of sexual assault and perpetuating a myth of predatory men raping unsuspecting and unwilling women around the country when actual video evidence looked at and summarized by the police (video evidence the accused did not give consent to be shown to the school because it would "be too painful") shows it to be quite the contrary.

EDIT closer reading of the report of the later players is pretty damning against them and their actions. I am very against idiotic Title IX cases. I think it's stupid, a money grab, and goes against the sexual experimentation culture that many of the same "sex resource centers" promote. If you want a world of sexual freedom you have to accept that sometimes what you thought you wanted wasn't what you expected. But that doesn't necessarily make it rape. Explorations can and sometimes do lead to failure. So if you're out exploring your sexuality that should be an option. These places try to paint sex as something entirely different from every other biological process while at the same time trying to instill a blasé attitude about it all rather than a puritanical one. You can't say go and be free out of one side of your mouth and then harshly attack one group for being free in the wrong way out of the other side.
 
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Here's my two cents.

(1) Multiple men having sex with one woman, consenting or not, is disgusting. They should be suspended for that alone.

(2) Girl who agrees to have sex with multiple men doesn't get to act surprised and hurt when they make fun of her later. Query if she deserves punishment to wasting police time etc.

Men now think porn is reality; women continue to think "if I do it they'll like me." Many stupid people here.

"Suspend em all; let God sort em out."
 
GTCrew4b said:
But they aren't. They are almost entirely based on the fact that the woman said she was sexually assaulted and her story was deemed credible. The report is now out and able to be read. One of the reasons Her story is credible because she changed it which shows she is willing to admit mistakes. Whereas the men's story was not credible because their reports were incongruous. The police summary of a video describes her as clearly not intoxicated and clearly being ok with the sexual acts going on.

But hey what does that matter. Some men had sex with a literal slut and therefore they need to have their lives ruined. She only expressed regret after the fact. There is no signs of scuffle, resistance, struggle or anything more than playful banter.

If we don't trust the police to get sexual assault right who exactly should we trust? Should Title IX investigators be commissioned by all the cities and precincts in America now?

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/U of M EOAA redacted4.pdf

I'm not condoning the behavior of anyone. But I am vehemently against cheapening accusations of sexual assault and perpetuating a myth of predatory men raping unsuspecting and unwilling women around the country when actual video evidence looked at and summarized by the police (video evidence the accused did not give consent to be shown to the school because it would "be too painful") shows it to be quite the contrary.

EDIT closer reading of the report of the later players is pretty damning against them and their actions. I am very against idiotic Title IX cases. I think it's stupid, a money grab, and goes against the sexual experimentation culture that many of the same "sex resource centers" promote. If you want a world of sexual freedom you have to accept that sometimes what you thought you wanted wasn't what you expected. But that doesn't necessarily make it rape. Explorations can and sometimes do lead to failure. So if you're out exploring your sexuality that should be an option. These places try to paint sex as something entirely different from every other biological process while at the same time trying to instill a blasé attitude about it all rather than a puritanical one. You can't say go and be free out of one side of your mouth and then harshly attack one group for being free in the wrong way out of the other side.
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Well, that's pretty long and I had enough about 1/3 of the way through it. But I agree, from her own account, it sounds pretty consensual for the first few and sounds pretty bad for the last few.

Here's my overall take-away...

1) Girls should be taught to be assertive when they feel uncomfortable in these situations. I know there's this whole "blame the victim" narrative, but these situations ultimately come down to communication, and that's a two way street. Also, communication has verbal and physical components. Girls need to be taught if they're in a situation where they think they are trapped, they need to fight until they think they are in SERIOUS/MORTAL danger. This will help reduce the number of these situations and make it so that, if it really does go too far, there's more of a chance that witnesses will be drawn and/or, heaven forbid, there will be physical evidence of abuse.

2) Guys need to be taught that running a train is a bad idea and will open them up to criminal charges. Always. Maybe I've just got good taste in women, but I can't imagine any girl I've ever been with being ok with a handful or more guys having their way with them.
 
Minnesota Golden Gophers players negotiated late into the night with school administrators and announced Saturday morning in a news conference that the boycott of football activities has ended. The team will begin preparing to play in the Dec. 27 Holiday Bowl against Washington State.
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The players said they received assurances from the university the suspended teammates will receive a fair hearing, helping them agree to lift their boycott.

The players also were promised the school will “show support for our team and the character shown by the great majority of our players,” while working to highlight the issue of sexual assault.
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STAFF: Absolutely nothing will change with regard to your teammates, their suspensions or the hearing.
PLAYERS: Sure, that sounds great, but what else can you offer?
STAFF: Literally nothing.
PLAYERS: Sold.
 
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I would have started out the meeting by handing out invoices to all the scholarship players for the amount they will owe for Fall semester tuition, fees, room and board, and tutoring expenses. Cash, check, or money orders accepted.
 
Minnesota, like many schools, has instituted policies where you pretty much have to have verbal consent at every stage, and if you have sex with a drunk girl, she is by definition incapable of consenting. So, I'm sure the schools' argument is that they violated school rules even if they didn't commit a crime. I can see the need to crack down on rape, but these rules aren't governed by common sense. I'm with 18in32 on this. The players' behavior is gross and so is claiming rape a month after the fact. Everyone sucks in this story.

The smartest policy for a college dude is either monogamy or celibacy.
 
Lots of conflicting feelings about this.

Consensual means just that, so don't go screaming later about the consequences of acting like a s..t. And it appears nobody is claiming rape.

This university Prez, no doubt one of honest Al Frankens boys, giving assurances of a fair hearing?

Would not be surprised if he worked at Duke and tried to crucify some lacrosse players at one point.
 
KG01 said:
lol, Minnesota being all heavy-handed with this is hilarious considering their former AD was essentially forced into retirement due to his 0wn misconduct with a female reporter. Also considering their basketball team (headed by the son of slime-merchant, Pitino) has been embroiled in controversy for the past 2 years IIRC. The latest transgression was some form of sexual assault following the leaking of a sex tape with a coupla players and young lady.

Way to right the ship, Gophers (or GropeHers?)
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As a graduate of UM, I can tell you how stupid the school is run. They maintained separate women's and men's athletic departments until recently. The women's athletic department spent millions to build a new boat house a few years ago for the women's rowing team. The state congress cut the school loose a decade ago and the pointy heads are more worried about revenue to cover their malfeasance than running an institution of higher learning that helps the citizens move forward. Sad.
 
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