My 2 Cents....

C

casbah62

Flats Noob
Joined
Dec 15, 2001
Messages
630
This academic situation I lay directly at the feet of the Athletic Department...
I stated late last year my disatisfaction in the disciplinary level of many areas associated with the Athletic department... I won't go into it now unless prompted but this is one more brick in the wall...
I will create a list...
- Football Team not walking down YJ Alley
- football team and cheer team not running onto field together
- football team dancing on hated 'G' before Ugag game
- band & students pouring drinks on FSU players and fans
- AD not communicating with fan base about current events or relevant issues i.e. seating issues
- alledged off campus late nite parties by SA's
( I've not been there but there have been reports of trouble off campus late nites...)
- now this about academic troubles

This along with the lack of success in many areas of the athletic department in the past 18 months is not a very good representation of the kind've product Georgia Tech produces as a graduate...
I'm huge on the symbolic nature of the athletic program as it compares to the quality of graduate it produces. The recent history of managerial failures in addition to the performance of quality control standards in place would not be acceptable in my company nor many others in the marketplace... and the botom line i.e. wins and losses is far below acceptable...

It all lays at the feet of the AD...
We are a very tolerant fan base here on the flats BUT... we have to draw the line at some point... Coach Braine is walking a very fine line for the next 7 months...
I am not a 'money' booster by any stretch but I will let my feelings be known wherever I can...
IF THESE STANDARDS CONTINUE BRAINE HAS TO GO!!!
Tech is not a sub standard institution especially academically...
We've apparently lost what amounts to a recruiting year... either Gailey is 'cleaning house' and this is a measure forseen by the AD, OR the AD has dropped the ball in the counseling, tutoring, and mentoring of these SA's
Either way we are again IN THE DARK as a fan base.
Don't these folks on the hill know that we are already reeling from a lousy season in football, a lousy seasaon in BB and now they let this happen???
I'm so PO'd about the treatment we've been getting from the AD that I'm ready to drop my season tickets to FB and BB...
Would someone please talk me off the ledge... there has got to be some logic in all this...
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No talk can help. This is going to actually get worse before it can better. You are seeing a preview of a disastrous season. 2-10 tops.
 
Father Wasp ... I'm beginning to accept the fact that we are in for a horrible season in 2003 but I won't accept it...
I even tolerated the BL years because he was just out of his league...
BUT the current situation runs VERY DEEP... like I stated... this is an Executive/ Managerial dilemna that points directly at the helm...
I mean the entire Athletic Department has failed!!! This isn't the case of a coach not knowing X & O's... or not being able to recruit!!! The failures are in the management and application of processes that are the hallmark of Georgia Tech Athletic programs since the days of Heisman!!!
The occasional bad hiring of a coach/ manager is acceptable... no one is perfect BUT this is an inherent flaw in the management style of the current Director and it should be handled swiftly and without remorse by those who make these appointments...
Geez I'm more PO'd now than after 51-7...
I need a drink...
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casbah62, do you mind if we at least wait until we find out what the hell happened? If our players aren't going to class and/or didn't take enough hours then you are right and we have a serious problem, one that may call for firings. But before we go there why not wait for the details?
 
NCJacket... most of the sources I'm hearing from are generally more than accurate... including the Flagship Station 790 'The Zone'... most have stressed the alledged BUT most of these same sources were early on the O'Leary departure, the O'Leary resumegate, the Gailey Hiring, the Nelson transfer, the Bosh application to the NBA, as well as the ACC expansion (a week ago), and numerous other non-TECH issues... 'they' apparently are 'in the know'... I will also add that very rarely is 'dirt' associated with TECH on these boards or in the news... TECH has such high standards that few will 'alledge' anything without some very good info...
Believe me I hope that this is all just some sorry rumour and I will be the first to dissuade any further comments on changes involving the AD but... many of us have skirted assessment of those in charge of the AD for some time and we are beginning to question our loyalty to a department that refuses to acknowledge us as fans and treats us as if we were some ugly stepchild...
 
Coaching staffs used to be updated on SA grades on a weekly basis. Tutors and assistants are there to monitor progress and report problems as well as help the SA's. This coaching staff has failed to look at the built-in warning signs, or simple felt no need to continue the safeguards. No excuse will justify the result. The Ga. Tech AA seems to be adrift without control and/or leadership.
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BOO
 
casbah62, I'm not doubting there is serious trouble, what I'm talking about is who is actually gone, who is on probabion, etc., and what the reasons are (if we can ever find out). I mean, did they all flunk the same class? Were they in class? Did some prof fail everybody in his class? I had a Math class where the average on the final was 13. That prof at least gave most of us Ds, but who knows. For that many to flunk out just seems outlandish to me and I want to be sure there isn't anything screwy going on before I start to throw rocks.

I do realize that more than likely this is an AA issue and will come back to accountability for the SAs and lack of oversight by the staff. I'm just not ready to go there until all the info is out. If we have not been monitoring SAs academic progress then somebody is in serious trouble.
 
Casbah, while you have stated a list of cumulative items reflecting on the entire sports scene at Tech, all is not lost. It is always darkest just before dawn.

Get off the ledge, breathe deeply, and realize things could get better as quickly as they get seemingly bad.

I would be willing to bet you will neither disown the football team nor drop your season tickets. We still don't know how bad the situation is with the 11 students. As some have suggested, maybe most of the players can make up the deficiencies during summer school.

Father Wasp, why are you trying to sow seeds of discontent along with BDS? Do you want Gailey to fail? To me, it appears you want him to fail. I may be wrong, but most all of your posts are negative toward Gailey and the season. I will be willing to wager with you that we will win at least five games without blinking an eye.

I will even bet with you that we win more than three games and give you good odds.

Bobby Dodds Ghost, what proof do you have that the coaches have not looked at the built-in warning signs? Do you know this as fact, or are you assuming this? Do you have proof they simply felt no need to continue the safeguards, or are you assuming again?

Maybe they are monitoring the situation and were fully aware of the problems. Maybe they already have plans to correct some of those problems during the summer.

Maybe, they already knew a few would possibly fail outright, but probably did not feel it necessary to contact you and let you know about it.

Why don't you go over to the UGA board and tell them to get rid of Richt. I understand UGA had nine to fail.

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My feelings true enough are negative, but reflect reality. Do I want him to fail? Of course not. He is the one getting paid a million dollars, not me, to run a program. I'm not there day to day, but anyone can clearly see the results. 51-7. Losing to a depleted Fresno. Being a Tech fan one never simply adds wins and losses, but looks deeper.

Being a Tech fan means win/loss is not the ultimate barometer. The intangibles to me are the decades of producing fine young men who looked the part and busted their ass to insure playing for Tech meant something a little bit more than most places. Like Dodd said he always recruited character ahead of talent. Yes, we've had some teams on a sparodic basis lay down but you can count the games on your right hand.

People make fun of Lewis, and I admit he was out of his league, but I think the guy tried.

O'Leary's teams had discipline, and to refer to this original post, at least walked Yellow Jacket Alley with pride.

I can even remember Curry and Pepper's teams were for the most part outmanned but I never doubted they would show up. An exercise in frustration? You bet. Tie Notre Dame. Beat Alabama. Lose to Furman. But for the most part Techsters have all pretty much been cut from the same mold as far as I can see.

I was more excited than anybody when Gailey arrived. I admire and respect his Christian faith and thought he was the guy to bring a steady hand to a veteran group and take us up a notch from where OL had us plateued.

I can take losing Wake - GOL's team accomplished that with Joe Hamilton under center. I can take giving the game to Clemson - GOL did that as well (their going to run the QB Draw!).

What is inexcusable was the absolutely pathetic display in Athens and the horrible coaching blunders leading to the Silicon debacle. More importantly, I can respect an outmanned or even injury laden team to lose to the FSU's and Maryland's if they are putting out - but someone needs to watch the tape if they believe that is effort. Can college players not stay motivated enough to bust their ass for four quarters of a major college football game?

I suggest to you my good friend that the "seeds of discontent" that are being sown are from Gailey, not me. Trying to go underground doesn't help.

Quite the contrary to your belief - most of us don't expect Tech to be Oklahoma, and most of the reasons we bleed gold are not wins and losses - it is the intangibles - and those are coachable. Just give us a team that carries itself with class and shows some fight - not foolish slugs out of bounds like last year but sideline to sideline coverage like Lucious Sanford or kick ass play like Rock Perdoni or Nate Stinson.

Again, I'm no O'Leary die hard, but I would bet my house no team of his would ever get beat by the University of Georgia 51-7. Now I wonder why that is.

He's gone so that is not the topic. No, I do not wish as a Tech fan for Gailey to fail. I take no delight in our misfortunes. I would like nothing better than to get on here in the fall and eat crow. That being said, sitting around wishing and hoping in the face of facts does nothing positive. And certainly those who spin Chan's way are no better than those of us who would prefer a different leader.
 
Ahso..

You said you are willing to bet we win more than 3 games....we have gone from talking about winning 7-10 games, this time last year to winning 2-5.

I think that wraps it up.
 
Father Wasp, You are not reflecting reality. The reality is that last year can be attributed to any number of reasons, of which only one could have been Gailey.

The other parts of reality is the poor quarterback play and offense which was directly under BOB. If you want to talk reality, then state the problem could also have come from BOB.

If you want to deal in reality, also state that there may have been a morale problem due to the split loyalties to BOB and Gailey from the players.

If you want to deal in reality, state the problem of the failures is with the faculty and administration instead of Gailey, and on and on.

You are not dealing in reality, but are trying to find every possible piece of material available and slant it to get rid of Gailey. If the truth be known, you did not want Gailey to begin with. You probably wanted Mac, BOB, and Roof. I believe this is the reality.

The results at UGA and Fresno State can also be laid to players laying down or a bad morale problem possibly caused by BOB and players loyal to him.

Just go ahead and blame Gailey for the nine players at UGA who also failed. It is just as easy to add that to your made up list without any proof.

You are talking about Dodd producing fine young men and Gailey not doing the same. That is so silly, it is laughable. How can someone produce fine young men in one season of football. You really went to great lengths to come up with that one.

How do you know Gailey is not recruiting players with great character. Are you saying he is recruiting players with talent and does not care about their character? Where do you get this from? Are you saying the last two years of players have no character?

Now, if players laid down in the UGA and Fresno State game, few players were on the first team from last years recruits, so those who laid down were exhibiting poor character traits picked by O'Leary and his crew. The character traits of those players certainly did not come from Gailey's recruits.

Yes, the display in Athens and at the bowl game were inexcusable, but lets lay the blame on the players for not wanting to win and laying down on the job. Don't blame Gailey for them quitting on him. I would feel confident to say they quit on him, he did not quit on them.

I also feel confident in saying O'Leary quit on Tech.

Again, I state to you the poor performances last year were the fault of players who did not have it in their belly to fight for Tech nor Gailey. I state from my opinion, it was the players at fault for quitting. I also think BOB was a big part of the problem.

Now, we could possibly be at point zero again if Gailey has gotten rid of the problems with BOB and rearranging his staff. Let's say the problem was not Gaileys's doings, but was BOB's. We start off a new year, ready to roll, and some students fail.

You immediately want to bring up problems possibly not caused by Gailey and add them back into the mix with failed students which also may not be attributable to Gailey.

You are still trying to crucify him without giving him a chance. You made up your mind before he coached a game that you did not want him and you will do anything to get rid of him.

From my view of your posts, that is the way it looks to me.

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You can call this "spin" if you like, but here are some facts (not opinions) which seem to contradict some claims made in casbah's post:

--I was at YJ Alley for five games in 2002; each time the team and coaches walked down and interacted with the fans
--The football team followed the Reck and the cheerleaders onto the field on schedule for 5 of the 6 games
--I received a letter from the AD about the 2002 season and about reseating
--In the past 18 months, 15 of our 17 varsity teams (2001-02) and 14 of our 17 varsity teams (2002-03) have competed in the post-season. We've had a total of 5 ACC team championships, 7 ACC Coach of the Year winners, 7 ACC Rookie of the Year winners, one NCAA champion, and our highest-ever finish in the Sears Cup. I don't call this a lack of success.
--In the past 18 months we've raised more than 75% of the promised funds for the stadium expansions
--I'm not in the dark as a fan because when I have a question I call the AA and get an answer

Now, as pertains to football academic eligibility, my 2002 media guide lists the following support areas for student-athletes:

--a 3-person football academic support staff which operates out of a 5,000 square foot academic center comprised of study halls, tutoring rooms, meeting rooms, computer cluster, etc.
--a Degree Completion program for those whose athletic eligibility is complete prior to earning a degree
--the Homer Rice Center for Sports Performance, which includes sports physiology, motion analysis, and sports rehabilitation, sports nutrition and sports vision
--the Total Person Program, which "develops well-rounded student-athletes" and has been called the most comprehensive support system in the country
--a Life Skills program to prepare athletes for life after college
--the Student Athlete Advisory Board, which includes a representative from each sport, each of whom have a direct pipeline to the AA administration

There's more, but I'll bet you can guess where I'm going with this. The ineligible student-athletes must shoulder the responsibility for failing to take advantage of the programs designed to help them make it through Tech. The most important aspect of discipline is self-discipline.
 
GSUJACKET, not really. I was basing my bet on the absurdity of the Father Wasp's statement of a 2 game win season. I made the small bet and upped it one just to see if he would take the bet. It was not my view of the coming season.

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Casbah, how can I possibly "talk you in" when I am out there with you? As far as season tix are concerned, I decided after the Fresno State game not to renew and it remains to be seen what I will do with basketball. I need to see some good coaching by CPH or I will do the same with my tix.

Ever since CG got here, not one thing positive has happened.
 
If this is all the players fault, at what point does Gailey become accountable? 03?04?05? Since your argument is that everything bad like UGA and Fresno were O'Briens fault and the players fault were not motivated due to loyalty to O'Leary, your argument also assumes he can claim nothing good either. Aberrations like NC State and Virginia? Well, that was the leftover emotion of playing under O'Leary? I don't buy it. All over this nation you will see teams perform better or worse under the direction of new head coaches. Guess Friedgen is just now coming into his own accountability at Maryland?

Yes, students have the responsibility of doing their part. No doubt they bear a large part of the responsibility of flunking out. But losing 10 in one period is just one more sign this is getting worse, not better. The spinsmeisters are gathering figures throwing in everybody who left a program under previous staff's. Sorry, a kid who hurts his neck, or transfers for more playing time like Andy Hall is not the same as players you are counting on who simply flunk out. Better sign if Gailey was actually running people off for bad work habits, but every indication these guys were being counted on either as 1 or 2 deep on the depth chart.

Gailey, and his boss Braine who covers for him, is accountable. If he is not he needs to hook up with another pro team as a receivers coach in arena football and he won't have to recruit, won't have to mess with these silly NCAA rules, and won't have to deal with the press after setting the record for the all-time low point in Ga. Tech- Georgia history.
 
Ahso - GOL always said "problem in the classroom, problem on the field." And he was never surprised by 11 SA just turning up ineligible. You are blowing smoke my friend. A million dollars a year means no problems like this or BOB or any other excuses. Why didn't Groh and Amato have these little problems? CG hides and he is still hiding.

You can blame the kids all you want but the fact is they need very close supervision. For most it is their first time away from home and the coach is the father figure and he has to discipline the player. Do you really think GOL would tolerate kids not going to class or being in trouble.

You can blame 11 individual kids but that kills the team and the coach is responsible for the team.

You forget that when the coach signs the kid he tells the Mother "I will take care of your son." Well guess what, CG isn't!
 
Dave, you have a reasonable post. I still state any athlete who skips classes is responsible for what happens to him.

As I also stated, his actions affect the coach and team. Since it affects the coach and team, it is completely reasonable that the coach should stay on top of the situation. I do not absolve the coach of that responsibility.

I also stated, if I was the coach, I would be monitoring the situation to protect the kid, myself, and the team. So, I don't see anything that resembles blowing smoke.

I did say that Gailey should not be judged unfairly nor attempted to be run out of town without a fair trial. We do not know at this time if he was at fault. Until an investigation is made and uncovers the problem, everything else is rumor and not worthy material to fire the coach.

And could BOB have been the problem? Of course, he could have. He may not be the problem, but no one can prove he was not at this time. I stated it was reasonable to wait until after this season to judge Gailey, and that is true.

Maybe Groh and Amato did not have a holdover like O'Brien who has never played offense in his life and he was the OC Gailey inherited. Up until this last year, we had Friegden, then a Friegden trained quarterback coming back for O'Brien's first year as OC.

It is highly possible O'Brien may not be able to train quarterbacks.

Yes, it would have been wise to monitor the kids academics. In fact, we don't know that he didn't at this time. All we have is a lot of rumors.

Can I blame eleven kids if they skipped class knowing they would fail? You are absolutely correct I would blame them. If I was their coach, they would not skip but one class and stay on scholarship. I would send them home without a scholarship if they skipped again.

We don't know if they skipped or just failed. All we know at the present is eleven failed. All the rest is rumor.

Now, where is all the smoke?

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Father Wasp, I have stated time and again that I was displeased with last years results. I did not say it was BOB's fault, nor did I say it was the players fault, nor did I absolve Gailey of any responsibilities.

I might have said BOB and the players were at fault in a post or two just to give an example of how the situation would have been the same if it had been Gailey at fault.

I have stated repeatedly that it was too early to tell about Gailey. I stated I would wait until after this season without BOB to see if it was BOB or Gailey. So, you are not telling it like I have consistently stated my position.

And I still stick by my assumption that even though Gailey, the administration, the parents, etc. all have a vested interest in the kids studies, it is the responsibility of the kid to go to class and study.

When it gets right down to it, if a kid does not go to class, he has no one to blame but himself. We are living in a society where every one is becoming unable to accept blame. It is always some other person's fault. No kid came blame anyone for not attending class.

Will he suffer for it? Sure! Will the coach suffer for it? Sure! Will the team suffer for it? Sure! Our actions always have an effect on ourselves and others.

Would I be on top of the academics if I was the coach? Sure, because it would be in my best interest. That still does not absolve the student from his responsibilities.

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Well you and I agree on one thing, they need to go to class and do what it takes. However, (and let's not get dragged down the GOL path again), I do know he had several people hired for academic progress and his stated discipline policies about keeping one's scholarship and going to class. In short, he knew if players were cutting or failing. My point is that Gailey, without an academic person on staff, should be experienced enough to know better. This isn't Troy State. What was he thinking? From day one he should have been assessing if he had the right staff in place to handle the academic situation at Tech. This would have big enough news if just Hollings tanked. But 10? Wouldn't that indicate you might have a systemic, not an individual problem?
 
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