O'line has been pathetic.....
- Thread starter law_bee
- Start date
law, yes we do have issues with the OL. But to say they've been pathetic, as you started this thread, is simply not true. As Alagold points out, it's ridiculous to say an OL is pathetic right after running for 320 yards.
I still think part of the problem we're having is developing the new offensive package we've gone to. When you run delays, you try to open lanes for the RB to pick from. Most teams that run that kind of offense don't blow people off the line. You take the DL where they want to go and the RB picks his hole. If you look at our ND game, we got penetration, but we couldn't get to the back as they picked the open lanes. I think we're having a problem with the timing between the backs and the OL. Linemen can't hold their blocks forever, the RB has to hit the holes while they're open. I think this will improve as we get more coordination in the offense.
I also agree with stateline. If we're going to be successful in short yardage we need to include some quick hitters in the scheme. So far I've seen very little except slow developing plays. We need to mix it up to keep defenses honest.
I still think part of the problem we're having is developing the new offensive package we've gone to. When you run delays, you try to open lanes for the RB to pick from. Most teams that run that kind of offense don't blow people off the line. You take the DL where they want to go and the RB picks his hole. If you look at our ND game, we got penetration, but we couldn't get to the back as they picked the open lanes. I think we're having a problem with the timing between the backs and the OL. Linemen can't hold their blocks forever, the RB has to hit the holes while they're open. I think this will improve as we get more coordination in the offense.
I also agree with stateline. If we're going to be successful in short yardage we need to include some quick hitters in the scheme. So far I've seen very little except slow developing plays. We need to mix it up to keep defenses honest.
Several points:
We did call quick hit plays....one of which got Calvin injured. They're called screens and we ran more than a few.
We seemed to play to the width of the field for the first 2.5 quarters, which really opened up the lanes for Reggie to run ON DESIGNED RUNNING PLAYS! Once we had run them from sideline to sideline for 30-35 minutes, we started pounding it up the middle a bit more. I think we really try to wear the other team down before we make a living between the hashes.
I don't think the OL has gelled the way we were hoping they would. Part of that can be blamed on all the injuries in the preseason, but I expected them to be more cohesive at this point.
I liked how we lined up the RB's. Grant in the slot allowed him to really use his quickness and the reverses look especially good (one more thing for our opponents to worry about. We also ran similar formations with a variety of plays. Tashard needs to hit the hole without hesitating. Someone sitting with me commented that Evans just flat out runs to the hole while Choice seems to take one extra step to plant and dance. On counters and misdirections that is important, but most of his runs seemed to be draws and off tackle assigments that rely more on the quickness to the gap. We either need to call more counters (which were effective in the first half against ND) or work on hitting the hole. On an aside, I think all 3 of our backs are solid and will continue to contribute.
We did call quick hit plays....one of which got Calvin injured. They're called screens and we ran more than a few.
We seemed to play to the width of the field for the first 2.5 quarters, which really opened up the lanes for Reggie to run ON DESIGNED RUNNING PLAYS! Once we had run them from sideline to sideline for 30-35 minutes, we started pounding it up the middle a bit more. I think we really try to wear the other team down before we make a living between the hashes.
I don't think the OL has gelled the way we were hoping they would. Part of that can be blamed on all the injuries in the preseason, but I expected them to be more cohesive at this point.
I liked how we lined up the RB's. Grant in the slot allowed him to really use his quickness and the reverses look especially good (one more thing for our opponents to worry about. We also ran similar formations with a variety of plays. Tashard needs to hit the hole without hesitating. Someone sitting with me commented that Evans just flat out runs to the hole while Choice seems to take one extra step to plant and dance. On counters and misdirections that is important, but most of his runs seemed to be draws and off tackle assigments that rely more on the quickness to the gap. We either need to call more counters (which were effective in the first half against ND) or work on hitting the hole. On an aside, I think all 3 of our backs are solid and will continue to contribute.
statelinejacket
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BirdnBee: Screens are not quick hitting plays and passes with a 1-3 step drop are not screens.
Screen plays are by definition where the offensive line deliberately allows their man on the defense to rush by them and toward the quarterback.....running themselves out of the play. After the defense rushes by them the offensive line will drift over toward the intended receiver to set up a wall......or screen.
Screen plays are by definition where the offensive line deliberately allows their man on the defense to rush by them and toward the quarterback.....running themselves out of the play. After the defense rushes by them the offensive line will drift over toward the intended receiver to set up a wall......or screen.
From the "Dictionary of American Football Terms" :
Bubble screen - screen-pass play in which an offensive player initially aligned in the offensive backfield, including a wing or a tight end, immediately runs outward while a screen of blockers is formed by wider receivers
Also, from the article, "Defending the Spread" :
A big part of the spread offense is their screen package. There are all kinds of screens you can throw from those formations. You have to defend the quick or bubble screen to the outside. The shovel pass, which is a form of a screen, and the under screen when the receiver comes back into the middle of the formation.
But, SLJ, you are obviously right.....I apologize.
Bubble screen - screen-pass play in which an offensive player initially aligned in the offensive backfield, including a wing or a tight end, immediately runs outward while a screen of blockers is formed by wider receivers
Also, from the article, "Defending the Spread" :
A big part of the spread offense is their screen package. There are all kinds of screens you can throw from those formations. You have to defend the quick or bubble screen to the outside. The shovel pass, which is a form of a screen, and the under screen when the receiver comes back into the middle of the formation.
But, SLJ, you are obviously right.....I apologize.
statelinejacket
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BirdNBee said:
Respect to you BirdnBee: You found a definition that fits a screen as you know it.
That is not a true screen pass play as I have known it for over 30 years. In a screen pass play the offensive linemen have two jobs: 1) sell the defensive linemen that they are trying to block them......but letting the pass rushers through.....and 2) get outside to block for the back going outside for the pass(the back often is trying to sell that he is in the backfield trying to block before heading out into the flat for the pass). The wide recievers generally are trying to take the DB's downfield and away from the play.....but blocking if the DBs smell it out.
No desrepect: You found the definition, I just know that is not a genuine screen pass.....in its original form..... but a play generated from the new offeneses like this 'spread option'.
statelinejacket
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beej67 said:
Just how old are you? There was no spread option 30 years ago. And it likely won't be here 30 years from now.
statelinejacket
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beej67 said:
Old fart? I'm 42 with barely a gray hair. I gave the BirdNBee credit and respect for showing me a definition of what is now called a 'bubble' screen. No problem there. But nevertheless, that is not a true screen pass.....the true screen pass is run every Sunday by virtually every team in the NFL.....maybe this 'bubble' a distant relative of the original but that is all.
What is your problem? Any version of the screen put forward here is not a 'quick hitting' play. Do you understand the characteristics of what a 'quick hitting' play is? Obviously you don't and now this 'Old Fart' doesn't have anymore patience to sit here and try to explain it to you.
JTS
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I believe that any pass to a player behind the line of scrimmage is a called a screen pass because it allows teammates to begin blocking (ie screening) downfield before the ball is caught. This definition covers your tunnel, slip, bubble, and tradition screen passes.
statelinejacket
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Beej: Quick hitting plays do not start out laterally. That is the last I will state on the subject.
Wilmoo: Who? What is a 'Wilmoo'?
JTS: No, and because it is against the rules for a lineman to be downfield when a pass is thrown. Otherwise if coaches or writers of dictionarys want to add the term 'screen' to virtually any kind of pass.....just as coaches in days of yore added such terms as 'Winged' and 'Split' to offshoots of the original 'T' formation......even though it was no longer a true 'T' formation.....I have no contol over that.
Wilmoo: Who? What is a 'Wilmoo'?
JTS: No, and because it is against the rules for a lineman to be downfield when a pass is thrown. Otherwise if coaches or writers of dictionarys want to add the term 'screen' to virtually any kind of pass.....just as coaches in days of yore added such terms as 'Winged' and 'Split' to offshoots of the original 'T' formation......even though it was no longer a true 'T' formation.....I have no contol over that.
refrigeratormover
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we used to run a quick screen in Buffalo where the RT, RG and C would block not even touch our man and run out to the slot receiver and block for him, play took maybe one second. That was a play that did very well for us.
We called it a "quick screen"
We called it a "quick screen"
pocket_watch
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SLJ, without getting into definitions, wouldn't you agree that what we are running is just a quick pitch that happens to be thrown to a receiver, overhand and laterally?
That doesn't sound like a traditional jail break "screen" to me either, but it shouldn't matter.
What is important is that we are trying to spread the field by attacking the edges.
We need to spread the field to have much of a chance of softening the middle.
All this is the opinion of an X and O idiot of course.
That doesn't sound like a traditional jail break "screen" to me either, but it shouldn't matter.
What is important is that we are trying to spread the field by attacking the edges.
We need to spread the field to have much of a chance of softening the middle.
All this is the opinion of an X and O idiot of course.