Quarterback Theory of Mine

johncu said:
I think people are under a false idea that our coaches want to come out slinging the ball all over the field. Spread doesn't necessarily mean passing. In fact, our coaches have specifically said their goal is to be balanced and to tailor the offense to our personnel. I think that's what they're trying to do.
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I agree spread means multiple looks across the board with desire to stretch out defenses and the passing can come from short passing concepts doesn't take throwing down the field all the time. I would recommend to them though if your going to throw it thou in short 3-10 yards passes then you need to actually hit your guys and they need proper blocking on screens and short routes too to make positive yardage.
 
daBuzz said:
I could not disagree with most of your statements more. Collins wants to win and so does Patenaude and neither of them have an issue running option plays. But they're also trying to transition to a new offense and the way to do that isn't to run the damn triple option all of the time because that's the type players you have and the experience you have. At some point, you have to let them learn to run the new play book. Also, Collins has never said we want to be a pass first offense and he doesn't do that to sell it to recruits. He and Coach Patenaude both say we want to be balanced.

And once again, we lost 2 offensive linemen Saturday...one on the 5th play and one on the 16th play. One of those was your center and your backup scholarship center was out for the game already. So a walk-on center played most of the game and backup linemen made up your starters for the remainder of the day. You guys are reading wayyyyyyy too much into the playcalling because Coach P was just scrambling, trying to find players and plays that would work with an offensive line that had more holes than swiss cheese.

Give it a few more games with a healthy(healthier?) offensive line and then start to make comments about what the offense will look like. Because for now, the only samples you have are against the top team in the country and a game with your backups' backups playing on the OLine.
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Is that why the snapping was so horrendous... geez that was costing us about half a second every down having to have the QB catch the ball all over the place and then try and react.
 
malak05 said:
Is that why the snapping was so horrendous... geez that was costing us about half a second every down having to have the QB catch the ball all over the place and then try and react.
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Cooper went out on play 16 and William Lay (a walk on) played the remainder of the game at center because of lack of depth. He struggled but I'll give the kid credit for battling to the best of his ability. Problem is that we just don't have depth and/or talent on the offensive line right now. The guys are improving and working hard but the talent level and size is way below what you want for a decent non-triple-option program.
 
midatlantech said:
I think we should stick with Lucas and Tobias. Put them on the field together often and do the best we can.

I am not familiar with Jordan Yates' skill set but if he is any good, I think we'll see him in for four games mid-season. Why waste him early, coach him up and then see if he helps us for four games. Heck maybe he plays the next to last three games and then a bowl game? Can he do that?

I agree that we won't see any of the three QB's starting next year. If there is a transfer QB this winter, I think they have to look at GT as a solid option.

Another approach would be to run more west coast offense (quick outs, slants, screens, etc.) and maybe do it from under center. We should definitely use PJ's techniques when we are first and goal at the two.

Oliver is a player and yet, I'm not sure where he should be playing.
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Jordan Yate is probably the best QB on the roster accurate passer with the ability to be a escape artist he's very Russell Wilson like and still make plays downfield. He was only in camp this Fall though I believe so he's behind the learning curve eight-ball of playbook. Plus even for him your asking for a whole lot out of a Freshman QB who will have to run for his life half the time with this oline.
 
ee8384 said:
So CGC is willing to lose, and display a (currently) weaker offense on the field, in order to win over potential new recruits? Does not compute.
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It computes. CGC knows he has a free pass this year because nobody expects him to win. He could be planning everything for the future. At the same time, he could never admit this to people who paid money for tickets.
 
wesleyd21 said:
Does anyone else not see James Graham’s potential out there? Kid looks outstanding to me. We just need better OL play...like a lot better.
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I do. The other two have not impressed me. If we really are playing QB roulette, then one of the three hasn’t really gotten his chance yet. My hope is this changes on Sat.
 
daBuzz said:
Cooper went out on play 16 and William Lay (a walk on) played the remainder of the game at center because of lack of depth. He struggled but I'll give the kid credit for battling to the best of his ability. Problem is that we just don't have depth and/or talent on the offensive line right now. The guys are improving and working hard but the talent level and size is way below what you want for a decent non-triple-option program.
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Good on him for the effort but snapping became a real issue and if that transition struggles before any of the other factors on our line we are in bad shape at that point to be efficient.
 
If you want to know who gives us the best chance to win right now, go back and watch our drive that starts with about 4:15 left in the 2nd quarter with Oliver at QB. Consistent positive yardage kept us from 3rd and long and we suddenly looked like a decent team. We need to base our offense on the shotgun option (whether it be read or RPO) right now and add passing concepts as we get more comfortable.
 
wesleyd21 said:
Does anyone else not see James Graham’s potential out there? Kid looks outstanding to me. We just need better OL play...like a lot better.
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Yeah, definitely.

I'm not completely set on this yet (certainly willing to change my stance based on seeing more snaps from each QB), but I'm currently finding myself on Team Graham with Tobias out there some in the slot and behind center for certain packages. I like Lucas, but he just seems less comfortable out there scrambling, which is an unfortunate frequent occurrence given the troubles/injuries on OL.
 
People need to remember that Graham was suspended from the program when Collins was hired and had to work extremely hard for 2 semesters just to be eligible to play. There is no way you can run with him as your guy so it is very likely he was "slotted" as QB3.

Johnson and Oliver are smart and very hard workers. I'm sure that Graham spent a lot of us off time studying while Johnson and Oliver were learning the play book and watching film. It is pretty clear that Johnson knows the plays, calls and adjustments the best and Graham the least.

Graham has made the best throws of the bunch but you are talking about a sample size of 2 or 3. If he played ever down, then it is likely we would see a lot of negatives plays which is likely what the coaches see in practice.

BTW, personally I would like a rotation with just Graham and Oliver but I understand why that didn't happen.
 
johncu said:
If you want to know who gives us the best chance to win right now, go back and watch our drive that starts with about 4:15 left in the 2nd quarter with Oliver at QB. Consistent positive yardage kept us from 3rd and long and we suddenly looked like a decent team. We need to base our offense on the shotgun option (whether it be read or RPO) right now and add passing concepts as we get more comfortable.
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I will say this we looked to have ran 1 RPO with LJ and he made a terrible read and passed right in front of a passing defender who got a hand on it and caused the batted ball that ended up a INT and apparently he was bad all the way around and handling the reads most the game. If your running the Spread offense you got to be able to make proper reads none of them were done any favors though by oline and especially the hiking.
 
Guys, it is obvious that Graham is the only QB who can actually give us a chance to compete against a real team. If we want to beat the South Florida’s, Citadels, and low hanging fruit of the ACC then Tobias can get that done as he proved last year and on Saturday. But I thought this entire coaching staff hire was to get us to compete against the teams with real defenses. What we saw against Clemson where a real team will stack the box with 9 is what we will continue to see with Tobias at QB. I really was high on him as a QB, but his passing ability against Clemson showed no positive steps forward from last year so that shipped has sailed. Graham is the only guy who can make a real defense pay by stacking the box. We saw it against Clemson and on Saturday. If we stick with Johnson or Tobias we are going to see a repeat of last year when we got our option/run plays pushed in by real defenses. And Yates will be redshirted because Collins isn’t going to waste a year and throw him to the wolves with a makeshift OLine.
 
Walton said:
People need to remember that Graham was suspended from the program when Collins was hired and had to work extremely hard for 2 semesters just to be eligible to play. There is no way you can run with him as your guy so it is very likely he was "slotted" as QB3.

Johnson and Oliver are smart and very hard workers. I'm sure that Graham spent a lot of us off time studying while Johnson and Oliver were learning the play book and watching film. It is pretty clear that Johnson knows the plays, calls and adjustments the best and Graham the least.

Graham has made the best throws of the bunch but you are talking about a sample size of 2 or 3. If he played ever down, then it is likely we would see a lot of negatives plays which is likely what the coaches see in practice.

BTW, personally I would like a rotation with just Graham and Oliver but I understand why that didn't happen.
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Looking at Film of Graham and throwing his feet and mechanics are pretty good especially throwing downfield but like you said he's perhaps not fully wrapped in the playbook and he's also more of a straight line runner. Oliver mechanic passing aren't very consistent and sometimes he just hops into a throwing motion instead of staying on his back foot and driving forward with leg upper body and this perhaps it's what caused some of his passes to not be so crisp but he is more of a dynamic runner with the ability to create find holes and fight for yards.
 
bonham said:
It computes. CGC knows he has a free pass this year because nobody expects him to win. He could be planning everything for the future. At the same time, he could never admit this to people who paid money for tickets.
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LOL no way in hell this is true. He doesn't have a free pass with the people who matter most and that's the recruits. If we only won 1 game, many of those recruits who are verbally committed would abandon ship.
 
johncu said:
If you want to know who gives us the best chance to win right now, go back and watch our drive that starts with about 4:15 left in the 2nd quarter with Oliver at QB. Consistent positive yardage kept us from 3rd and long and we suddenly looked like a decent team. We need to base our offense on the shotgun option (whether it be read or RPO) right now and add passing concepts as we get more comfortable.
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Yeah, it was okay. I just don't see why Graham couldn't run the TO subset of the offense just as well. He's even more dynamic than Oliver as an athlete.
 
My QB theory is this: If we don't have a clear #1 emerge through fall camp/practice (and clearly we didn't/don't), then all 3 will get a start and a majority of snaps to see what they can do with meaningful snaps and PT. Granted starting vs Clemson and starting vs the Citadel aren't going to provide the same results, but you get to see how the guys react and how they handle situations that are meaningful (early snaps in a tie game against a fresh defense). Looking back now I can see it playing out as this:

T. Oliver gets the start and majority of snaps vs. Clemson because:
  • He has the most experience carryover from last season
  • We need that experience going into a hostile environment vs. a tough opponent
  • We need to focus on the run game vs Clemson to limit possession and TOP by Clemson (didn't happen quite that way though)
L. Johnson gets the start and majority of snaps vs. USF because:
  • Team with FBS talent but one we should beat, so let's see what he can do in his first real game experience vs quality opponent
  • Get him looks against the best USF has to show (early game, fresh defense) to see how he manages
  • We know they are not as good against the run and can put in TO when needed for more run-heavy offense
J. Graham gets the start and majority of snaps vs. Citadel because:
  • Get him a start against a fresh defense at the beginning of a game we should easily win
  • Inconsistency and/or turnovers may not hurt us as much in this game
  • We know he has the talent and give him most of a game to manage to see if consistency picks up
Regardless of what reports come out as to who played when and how much and why this one started and that one didn't, I can easily see a scenario like this being scripted and played out by our staff. Give all of our guys a start and come out of week 3 at 2-1 (hopefully) with a bye week to re-evaluate everything and build the offense going forward around who steps up. I have my money on Graham starting vs. the Citadel with TO taking a lot of snaps at slot/flex. If he manages well and we can build a lead, I see him playing the entire 1st half, with LJ coming in 3Q to work out some of the jitters. Hopefully we can have a decent lead in this game and if so, I would like to see Yates get some 4Q snaps.
 
daBuzz said:
LOL no way in hell this is true. He doesn't have a free pass with the people who matter most and that's the recruits. If we only won 1 game, many of those recruits who are verbally committed would abandon ship.
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Wrong. The recruits understand that we are transitioning to a completely different offense. They will not bail because of win total. Hell, nobody expects us to win this year and we have a top 25 recruiting class.
 
Your theory is interesting. I don't think it is a secret that Tobias is a good athlete but has trouble throwing the ball. Graham like CPJ said "will make something happen, the problem is it could be something good or bad." As for Johnson, just don't know. I do know on one play Saturday he could have made 12 yards running and made 3 because he had no vision and ran right into the defender. Tobias showed his vision on the TD with a cutback that was not where the play was called to go.

My theory is that due to the above, they have played everybody because they don't know who to start but at some point you have to give the team the best chance to win. And the best chance to win appears to be Tobias. I am not a big fan of the QB by committee but we may see more. My understanding from one Temple fan that was on this board, they saw the the committee approach last year at QB before finally settling on one guy late in the year.
 
malak05 said:
I will say this we looked to have ran 1 RPO with LJ and he made a terrible read and passed right in front of a passing defender who got a hand on it and caused the batted ball that ended up a INT and apparently he was bad all the way around and handling the reads most the game. If your running the Spread offense you got to be able to make proper reads none of them were done any favors though by oline and especially the hiking.
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That was a good read. That play may have been a TD had it not been batted. Every QB has that happen. The read was great. The LB made a good play batting it in the air. Otherwise, the receiver was wide open
 
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