refrigeratormover:

S

statelinejacket

Damn Good Rat
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
1,417
Some thoughts on our trouble at quarterback and how much of it is the fault of the offensive line. I know your bias is toward the line :laugher: but bear with me for a moment and give me your thoughts.....

Lets refresh for some people a couple of basic theories about line play and it's connection with a quarterback's performance passing the football .....at least as I know them and please tell me if I am wrong.

#1: A quarterback doesn't have a lifetime to get the snap, drop back, read the defense, pick out a open receiver, and deliever the football accurately. In fact the optium amount of time they can hope to get is 3 seconds maximum.

#2: Pass blocking is easier for a offensive lineman to master than run blocking. That has always been the rule of thumb. Quick feet and long arms are more neccesary than being a text book blocker and the line working as a unit is less important than it is in the running game. Not saying it isn't important, just that the offensive line has to mesh in the running game but in the passing game getting back and forming a pocket is less taxing on the line as a unit.

At this time many fans on the internet and in the media want to put the blame on Reggie's performance....last Saturday 6-17 43 yards 1 interception against the 1st team defense, yesterday 7-17 60 yards 1 interception against the 2nd team defense....on the offensive line.

But it's my belief that the failures of the passing game results rest mostly if not completely with Reggie....if a quarterback holds the ball for 3 seconds he is going down.

If a quarterback elects to throw the ball away before he is sacked then he is using even less time to make his reads and deliever the football. Not a very good idea if you are doing it more than 2 or 3 times a game.

Hey, no one has said quarterback is an easy position to play......

Now it gets complicated after this.....defenses stunting, the need for the center to make the proper calls at the line, the need for a good pass blocker at tackle on the quarterback's blind side, etc.....

But if you have a quarterback who can do his job.....take the snap, drop back, read the defense, and throw the pass accurately to an open receiver.....in a minimum of time then all this discussion about the line is for naught.

My belief is that Reggie is causing a large amount of the bad publicity that the line is getting with it's pass blocking. Alway's had and will continue to do so.

He is not an effective quarterback throwing the football. The physical ability is there but the light bulb to get the job done is not there. I don't know why.....except that it is a helluva hard job to master and it is certainly not a blackmark against his brains or his character if he hasn't been able to master it.

I have read the Sunday articles about Reggie, Nix, the offense and so forth. But without good stats from Reggie and the offense up to the present I believe the offense this year will be much as it has been the last 3 years.
 
Last edited:
Bumped in case the 'Mover has missed it. As for the lack of comments, thats okay. It is kind of like not voting, if you don't have a comment now don't bit*h about it later. HUGE SMILE!
 
OK you want my comment??

No offense statesline, but this is a useless post in my eyes.

That's my comment and I'm sticking to it! :laugher:

What happens in those scrimmages as far as stats mean nothing as far as I'm concerned.

This didn't come across as a question to RM. This came across as a bash reggie post.

GO JACKETS BEAT ND!!
 
Statelinejacket:

I'm not the mover, but here is a post from gtq673r on the Hive that I believe gives real reasons for both Reggie's low completion % and expectations for significant improvement. :fingersx:

1) Experienced Offensive Line. The O-Line had size, maturity, and general protection issues all of Reggie's sophomore and junior years
2) Sturdy Blocking Backs. GT, under Chan, has won almost every game with its primary back starting the game. When PJ was banged up and didn't start, we only won a game under Chan and that 1 game was Miami. If TC can lead us to victory in Miami, I trust him for the season. I also think he will have the durability that PJ lacked in his 3 seasons for Tech. PJ is a bad man but Deuce has the pure talent, speed, and strength we've been needing since Hollings went down.
3) New System. Watch the footage from UGA or NCSU two minute drills. We moved the ball with ease against two stellar defenses. Two fluke plays (which were mostly WR fault) cost the game. I'm sorry but those drives are stellar and I'm really excited to see that offense out there with Reggie at the helm.
The Old System utilized power running, PA, and a lot of deep routes, which lead to Reggie's low completion percentage. As Joe Ham said, "Reggie just needs more intermediate routes because those deep outs and flags are usually only 40% completion plays." I saw a lot of WR screens and TB screens to help with the intermediate game in practices.
4) Special Teams. If some returns are shortened by ten yards and some kicks are made, we would've been 9-10 wins last year. We will be getting better field position with better special teams play.
Click to expand...


The following is the link to the thread:

http://mb25.scout.com/fthehivefrm1.showMessage?topicID=57272.topic
 
Those observations have some validity, but why aren't we calling the short middle routes? Its because Reggie can't see over the line or doesn't read the defenders to be able to execute the route. We all know that after 1001, 1002 Reggie is not looking for receivers anymore he is looking at the oncoming linemen and starting his jig.

I've seen Reggie play enough to know what his issues are and he has had them. Nevertheless, I hope he puts his demons behind him starting 9/2 at 8pm.
 
I swore that I was going to avoid posting, because some fowl person will misconstrue my comments for his own purposes, or the post will be commented on by someone spewing garbage instead of particpating in a discussion.

So much for my resolution....

John Elway once made the statement that he is 6'4" and he can't see over the line.

Throwing over the middle is a matter of passing lanes. Those passing lanes depend on OL spacing. If the DL can push the OL back, the lanes disappear as the pocket tightens. Not a sack or even a hurry, but it has an effect on the passing game, and the QB gets blamed by the casual fan.

This is what we have seen at GT the last 4 years. The defensive backs have less ground to defend because we have no middle passing game. Additionally, as Joe Hamilton said, Reggie is making a lot of downfield throws, which are 40% throws. He isn't calling those plays, nor did he design that offense--although the downfield throws, and not the short high percentage stuff, are Calvin's strength, as Chan recently suggested, and they call these plays to get Calvin the ball down field. So, Calvin's presence may actually hurt Reggie's completion percentage.

The passing game has been subpar for the last 4 years. There are many reasons for it, and as a Fr and Soph, Reggie was a big reason. However, as Pat Nix said, Reggie improved a lot last year, but his numbers didn't show it. Nix then went on to talk about the young offensive line of 2005.

The passing game needs to improve, but if it does not, all of the blame should not fall on Reggie. In fact, Reggie may be one of the lesser reasons.
 
Sorry it took me some time, I will try to answer my best.

1. 2.8 to 3.4 seconds is what we used to shoot for depending on the QB steps.

2. Sorry to say but pass blocking is not easier than run blocking. Maybe zone pass blocking is but not man on man.

Here's my thoughts on RB, he's a helluva competitor but I think he is way too emotional. He has to control his emotions ala gaggers his freshman year. Dewberry I didn't see as a great QB but he held his composer and didn't make many mistakes.

Stunting defenses are part of the game, that's why we have film to study and the tendencies the defense runs on certain downs. All players need to know this. film study is every bit as important as practice and it takes dedication to watch and see the nuiances of the defense and willingness to learn tendencies.

Depending on what Nix has implemented for this year which apparently none of us know I think we should give it the first 3 games of the year to determine RB potential outcome.

Due to health reasons I have not been to any practices but hope to the week of the ND game.

Hopefully this helps somewhat.
 
Whether you agree or disagree thanks for your comments.

Mover: I have always heard pass blocking is easier than run blocking. From Madden to all the talking head former linemen on the NFL shows. Maybe zone blocking is the type of blocking they have in mind when they are speaking about the subject.

But my points about his time to get back, checkdown on his receivers, and deliever the ball is an accurate statement. People need to quit fingering the offensive line for the lack of production in the passing game. It just isn't so.

I don't buy into the reasoning of why Reggie hasn't been getting it done. He has had 3 plus years as a starter and he still can't get it done in the scrimmages.

Mover, I can't justify giving him anymore time to prove himself. We need to prime Garner for playing time.
 
when I played O-Line (high school) I preferred pass blocking. Run blocking you have to fire out and attack, pass blocking you let the defender come to you so I felt that as easier. But then again I was a 165 lb center (at most), so quickness was my main asset and I cut block every chance I could get, trying to knock the defenders legs out from under him.
 
you are wrong about line not making a difference. Troy Aikmen looked like a hasbeen his first couple of years until they got a line in front him and he is one of the most accurate QB's in the history of the game.

Elway would not go to the colts for the same reason. Archie Manning never got it with the AINT's. There have been NUMEROUS SACKS every year that have been from the line leaking.

That is not to say that Reggie does not have his short comings but if we had a "softer" qb in there in previous years he would have been hurt. The other thing is Reggie gives us a legit run option which gave us the win versus Miami. A drop back qb will not have that option.

I think Reggie has been quite simply the best option available for GT at the present time. I hope another QB steps up but it has not happenned to date. If you are the best at your position on the team you usually play.
 
I was glad to see Mover said that run blocking is easier than pass blocking. With my limited experience as a high school O-lineman and as the son of a an old high school coach I have always heard it the way Big John put it.

The quick feet needed for pass blocking at the college level requires tremendous repetition to get the technique right. And, D-line and blitzers can dish out a lot of punishment on a lineman while pass rushing.

I can't think of anything an O-line likes better than to control the line of scrimmage with the run game and just fire off the ball and pound the defense and move it down the field with run after run. When it's working it's a thing of beauty.

As for my take on Reggie, I only see two things missing in RB as he begins his senior year. For one, his arm strength is just not exceptional for a college QB. It's good, but not great. Second, and this is just an intangible thing, he seems to lack that coolness under fire that the great QB's have. He's a gifted athlete, a competitor, and a hard worker. But I just don't think greatness as a QB is within his grasp. I just hope he plays within himself, minimizes mistakes, and leads well. We can have a great year with only a good performance at QB.
 
statelinejacket said:
I don't buy into the reasoning of why Reggie hasn't been getting it done. He has had 3 plus years as a starter and he still can't get it done in the scrimmages.
Click to expand...

Everyone always likes the back-up QB. Fact is if any of these guys were going to surpass Reggie they would have done it. Why would you just take one guy out of the picture and replace him with your 2nd BEST option according to the depth chart? Dumb logic. Unless you personally believe the coaches are crazy and cannot evaluate their talent. Unfortunately, with every other position on the field, that arguement holds no merit.

My personal opinion is that they just don't have the talent there. Let it go. This team is Reggie's for better or for worse. If you haven't figured that one out by now, I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Listen, I like Ball's spirit, but even I admit that he isn't QB material and we were trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. But Gailey made that decision 3 years ago and stuck with it. The fact is, the others are worse than Ball.

So why is Garner an apparent Savior? Because he was recruited by FLorida at one point? What is your evidence?
 
Also, FWIW, I have never heard that run blocking is harder than pass blocking. Exactly the opposite. Of course my experience was limited to Highschool ball, but we had a consistent top team where I grew up.
 
....For one, his arm strength is just not exceptional for a college QB. It's good, but not great. Second, and this is just an intangible thing, he seems to lack that coolness under fire that the great QB's have.

George Godsey comes to mind as someone who lacked the arm strength someone would expect of a major college D1 program QB but he got the job done. Our QB lacks it between the ears.
 
Barrel: Pay attention to the pregame shows instead of indulging in the alcohol and such and you will hear it from time to time. Big Grin.

Otherwise "Let it go" our quarterback problem? Heck no! It is the #1 problem confronting the team right now. Our injury concerns will not hurt our production to the extent our quarterback play will.

You know, you and many others state that what you like about Reggie is his running ability and competitive fire.......

Well, football rosters are smothered with athletes with competitive fire. And many quarterbacks as well as many football players mask the competitive fire that they have. What Reggie has you can't say that Garner doesn't have until you see him get a chance under center.

Do I think our coaches are 'idiots'? Heck no! But why should they follow the road to destruction that Jim Donnan did with Quincy Carter? Do you want Gailey to sink or swim with Reggie? I don't!

Gailey made a very bad call 3 years plus now. That this decision is an ongoing mistake is the only point of contention that I have with him at this moment. Reggie has never fullfilled any of the hopes or expectations echoed by fans in trying to support Gailey's decision. It is time to move on if he can't get it done on the field now.
 
SLJ, I agree with you on your take on Reggie. But you still didn't answer my questions. The coaches have put the best players to give us the best chances at EVERY other position on the field. They've developed some real talent on both sides of the ball, but most notably, Gardner, Cox, and in the past Hollings.

They've shown the ability to figure out who can help them where the most and they put them there. So how am I to believe that they aren't doing that with Reggie Ball? Is he magically the only exception to that?

Or is the answer maybe a little more obvious... like, the others just aren't cutting the mustard to dethrone him, and lets face it... it doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to compete for the starting job right now.

So you either believe that Reggie is the best option, or you believe that the coaches are just playing favorites, which I think the team would revolt on, don't you? I can blame this coaching staff for this situation in that they haven't developed these guys better and more importantly, they haven't recruited the position better. But to play Garner over Ball at this point is like saying, "well I want to replace the tomato in my BLT for an onion". For you that might make sense... but to everyone else.. it ain't right.

And I watch a lot of football guys on TV, and everything I have ever heard is Pass blocking is harder than run blocking. If you ever listened to an interview with the Fridge when he was our OC, he would talk each year about having to train these guys to pass block correctly. Anyone could run block, but to get them to pass block is a lot tougher. That is the truth. I remember him distinctly talking about pass blocking being a lot harder to learn and execute than run blocking and it was the same every year.
 
Barrel: If run blocking was easier for a lineman to master.....or for a line to work together effectively to accomplish.....we wouldn't have all these 'West Coast Offenses' and such.

As for Reggie, do I think the coaches are playing favorites? No, but as one very astute poster 'Pocket_Watch' said on the thread I had about the offense meltdown "It is a self fulfilling prophecy that RB stays at starter when no one else gets a quarter of his snaps in August"

That is a very true statement. Has been going on 4 years.
 
Right now Garner is the 3rd best QB on the team. Before he gets to play, he's going to have to improve enough to pass Bennett. He had better hurry though, more competition is on the way!
 
SLJ, that's the scrimmage snaps may be the first valid thing you've said thus far in this thread.

And on the run blocking... just trust me. And if you cannot do that, I take it you can trust John Davis. I'd say he'd know without a doubt.
 
The O-Line had to be rebuilt last year ... some of them were inexperienced, a bit undersized, and everyone thought they'd be one of the weaknesses of the team going into the season. But they did a very good job. RB has been inconsistent throughout his career. He'll have a terrific game and then have a bad one. His 50% completion rate shows this inconsistency. Suggs completed ... what? ... around 60% of his passes. He had plenty of interceptions, but so has Reggie.
If RB can become consistent, we'll have a consistent offense and GT will do fairly well, even with the killer schedule.
Hopefully, things go well for him and the rest of the team.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top