refrigeratormover:

Barrel: John said 'zone pass blocking' in a pass play could be easier than run blocking, just not man to man. I expect that in today's game that is what we see most of the time except when a tackle is isolated on a defensive end or linebacker.

Take it from John.

EDIT: This thread has been strictly about pass blocking from a lineman, not from a running back's perspective.

Botton line, the line is not responsible for what we see in the stats about Reggie's passing.
 
Stateline, I agree that it is self-fulfilling when Reggie gets all the snaps in August...he'll remain the quarterback. But this all happened because of a bare cupboard back when Chan arrived AND some bad luck in that Patrick Carter was not the answer (as was expected), etc.

The interesting thing is that after this or next season, we are going to go from virtually zero or one option to as many as five or six. A totally new set of problems are coming.
 
Sorry stateline, but I think that's too simplistic an answer. Yes, Reggie does some things poorly. But you can't just look at that in a vacuum.

It's easy for example to say the doesn't step up into the pocket. But there often hasn't been a pocket for him to step into. As others have said, it's a team game.

Bottom line (no pun intended) the OL hasn't given him the protection that we would like on many occasions. But, Reggie hasn't always delivered when he has had time. Both need to improve.
 
ncjacket said:
Bottom line (no pun intended) the OL hasn't given him the protection that we would like on many occasions. But, Reggie hasn't always delivered when he has had time. Both need to improve.
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ncjacket: This has been one of my standing contentions. Hopefully, expectantly, the line has a good upside to it as far as how much it can improve. But I dare say does Reggie? I don't think so. I believe his talent as a quarterback has been maximized. To a certain extent I believe the same goes for Taylor Bennett.

But with Jonathan Garner I believe the upside is significant. He maynot be the athlete that Reggie is but he should be a better quarterback. We don't need a great athlete at quarterback. We need someone who can be mentally focused, play his game but within the gameplan, play up to his ability, and provide the kind of leadership that makes everyone around him a better player.
 
statelinejacket said:
ncjacket: This has been one of my standing contentions. Hopefully, expectantly, the line has a good upside to it as far as how much it can improve. But I dare say does Reggie? I don't think so. I believe his talent as a quarterback has been maximized. To a certain extent I believe the same goes for Taylor Bennett.

But with Jonathan Garner I believe the upside is significant. He maynot be the athlete that Reggie is but he should be a better quarterback. We don't need a great athlete at quarterback. We need someone who can be mentally focused, play his game but within the gameplan, play up to his ability, and provide the kind of leadership that makes everyone around him a better player.
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Garner is 3rd string. Why not just make James Johnson play QB? You've seen him play QB as much as you've seen Garner play QB. For some reason, since you haven't seen garner play a game, you assume he MUST be the best QB we have! It's typical average fan reactions when they don't like QB #1, or QB #2, that Qb #3 is the guy to play.

Probabilities say Garner will never see the field as #1 QB. Next year, it will be Bennett, then maybe one of our new QB's coming this next year. Saying garner over and over won't make it happen.
 
Self-fulfilling prophecy ? Have you forgotten that they had ALL spring to de-throne RB ?? They couldn't do it then, so why give then snaps now ??
 
statelinejacket said:
But with Jonathan Garner I believe the upside is significant. He maynot be the athlete that Reggie is but he should be a better quarterback. We don't need a great athlete at quarterback. We need someone who can be mentally focused, play his game but within the gameplan, play up to his ability, and provide the kind of leadership that makes everyone around him a better player.
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What kind of basis do you have to even make this statement, other than your personal hunch?

We "don't need an athlete we need someone who can be mentally focused"?? What is that opinion founded on other than just a personal feeling? Seriously?

You cannot support ANY of these statements other than saying you believe them to be true. Well.. I believe in bigfoot and Santa Claus, but to date I have yet to get a confirmed siting.
 
To refresh people's memories about our mislabled '3rd string quarterback' Jonathan Garner.

click here:http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=8&c=1&nid=1167904

Review all the stories written about him by Scout.com.

Review the offers he turned down:

Bobby Petrino offered Garner a scholarship and he hasn't missed yet as far as I know of at Auburn or Louisville.

Lou Holtz at South Carolina is far from the worst evaluater of talent.

David Cutcliffe as head coach at Mississippi. But before that he helped Tee Martin enough he won a Nat'l Championship at Tennessee. He coached the Manning brothers Peyton at Tennessee and Eli at Ole Miss to All-American honors. He has been a keen and well respected evaluator and coach of quarterbacks for many years.

Not to mention Ron Zook when he was still the head coach at Florida winning him over before Urban Meyer came in and pulled the offer because he didn't fit his offense.

Has all the skills that got Garner the recognition and offers suddenly vanished? I don't think so. Possibly it is languishing due to a lack of use.

Yes Beernutts, you're right, I haven't had the opportunity to see Garner take a snap in a meaningful situation at Tech. But these coaches, especially Petrino and Cutcliffe have and I respect their eye for quarterbacks and their talent.

Remember, he was an Elite 11 quarterback camp participant. Is there a more prestigous quarterback camp? Maybe the Mannings camp but no other.

There is no reason for this kid to be languishing behind Reggie Ball and Taylor Bennett.
 
Barrel: Refresh yourself on Garner's credientals and who evaluated, recruited, and offered him. Then tell me I am just playing a 'hunch'.

P.S. I said we don't need a great athlete. Garner is a very good athlete......per Scout.com, Bobby Petrino and David Cutcliffe.
 
State;

No one doubts Garner's potential. But the ranks of college football are FILLED with can't miss players who had incredible potential that never played a down.

Garner may well turn out to be as good as you say. I don't say that he won't, in fact I won't guess whether he will or not. However, please forgive me if I trust the judgement of the coaches who see him in practice daily over your suppositions.
 
Two words: Pat Carter. Go look at his list of impressive offers.

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=8&c=1&nid=253935

Two more words: Damarius Bilbo and his list of impressive offers.

You have absolutely no point. There's a bus station of QB's with great offers from great coaches who didn't turn out to be didly squat. Is that really your only logic? Seriously, have we not learned this yet?

How about Brandon Sumner who was going to be the next Joe Ham. If you want to move this outside of just GT we could really have some fun.


What about that #1 QB in the nation that came out of VA with Michael Vick and turned EVERYONE down to go to UNC, where he proceeded to be average. How about the last 10 QB's FSU has recruited since Weinke? Or the Tereshinski kid at UGA who was 4 stars and his other fellow bench warming 4 star QB's?

You want to start a kid because of what a site rated him and the offers he had? Have we not learned from this trap a thousand and one times? In 1991 we recruited what many thought to be the Best QB in the nation and no worse than the #3 in Donnie Davis. He was USA Today Player of the Year and was on the cover. He was a good QB. Not great, but pretty good. It took him awhile to get there too.
 
SLJ, I hear your desire to see Garner in action. I am curious too!! To the point I hope he gets some mop up duty early this year to see what he can do.

Until then, I'm not about throwing him in with the first team to prepare for ND. Even though Reggie ain't the best QB, he's been there done that, and his experience is argueably the best in the nation.
 
BarrelORum said:
Two words: Pat Carter. Go look at his list of impressive offers.

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=140&p=8&c=1&nid=253935

Two more words: Damarius Bilbo and his list of impressive offers.

You have absolutely no point. There's a bus station of QB's with great offers from great coaches who didn't turn out to be didly squat. Is that really your only logic? Seriously, have we not learned this yet?

How about Brandon Sumner who was going to be the next Joe Ham. If you want to move this outside of just GT we could really have some fun.


What about that #1 QB in the nation that came out of VA with Michael Vick and turned EVERYONE down to go to UNC, where he proceeded to be average. How about the last 10 QB's FSU has recruited since Weinke? Or the Tereshinski kid at UGA who was 4 stars and his other fellow bench warming 4 star QB's?

You want to start a kid because of what a site rated him and the offers he had? Have we not learned from this trap a thousand and one times? In 1991 we recruited what many thought to be the Best QB in the nation and no worse than the #3 in Donnie Davis. He was USA Today Player of the Year and was on the cover. He was a good QB. Not great, but pretty good. It took him awhile to get there too.
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Barrel: You shouldn't even consider bringing in or using Damarius Bilbo or Patrick Carter as examples! Dumping Bilbo and AJ Suggs for Reggie was a hare brained idea that has never produced one bit of substantiated evidence that it was for the better of the team!

I argued long and loud from Day 1 that was a terrible move......I was right......no 20/20 hindsight here.

Mismanaging the quarterback position is one of Gailey's biggest crimes as head coach prior to his awakening in the '06 off season.....and the only one still creating headaches for the Tech program and it's fans.

Gailey not only made Reggie the starter but he shut out his competition for the job. Since then every position on the team has had open competition for the starting job except the quarterback job. No question this is fact. And it persist to this day.

Suggs and Bilbo,.....were thown under the bus in favor of a freshman quarterback. Carter followed in the next couple of years. Throwing another quarterback under the bus like Garner makes no sense to me.

Closed competition for the job is what irritates me the most. It was wrong with Suggs, Bilbo, Carter and it will be wrong as far as Garner is concerned. Reggie is a propped up annointed #1 quarterback and Bennett a #2. 3 years running now.
 
Closed competition for the job is what irritates me the most. It was wrong with Suggs, Bilbo, Carter and it will be wrong as far as Garner is concerned. Reggie is a propped up annointed #1 quarterback and Bennett a #2. 3 years running now.
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State, I know you think this way, but for the life of me I cannot understand why any coach would "annoint" a particular QB over a superior one. Now I can supposition favoritism ala Lewis' selection of Luginbill over Davis which ended up costing Lewis the support of the team, but I certainly CANNOT concieve of Gailey promoting not one, but TWO (Ball & Taylor) over FOUR (Suggs, Bilbo, Carter and Garner) supposedly superior QBs and there not be some kind of BillLewisian repercussions on the team.

I HAVE to conclude that Ball and Taylor are in their positions because of the old fashioned way of doing things: they earned it.
 
Lee, Bennett was #2 despite being redshirted 3 years ago now. Just as Reggie was given the #1 spot.

Why would Gailey make such moves is one question. But why they persist to this day, when in '06 he has made terrific move after terrific move is something no one but him can answer.

I was hopeful the Reggie-Nix combination would be a success. But he has only been effective in the latter half of one scrimmage out of the 3 that I know of. Early practice reports frequently mentioned in brief statements that Reggie was off target that day. Not everyday but the reports more often than not contained statements about Reggie being inaccurate throwing the football or for throwing an interception. I dismissed them at the time, waiting for the scrimmage results.

The question now is not why wouldn't Gailey use a superior quarterback. The question is since the day he elevated Reggie to #1 why has Gailey shut out any real competition for the job? No one can prove to be superior without a chance. Bennett is #2 because he hasn't a chance to unseat Reggie.

Well, the time is about over for Coach Gailey as far as the quarterback postion is concerned and despite the awesome improvements in the program and the obvious upswing that we are on, if Reggie crashes and burns and takes the offense with him for the 4th year in a row, I want shed a tear of regret if it should cost Gailey his job.
 
BOR: You and I have had our disagreements in the past, and here is another one: Lay off stateline!

Stateline is a guy I'd like to drink a beer with. He is a GT fan, and that is ALWAYS a good thing. I'd like him. However, before he went to the dark side, my analysis was that he is not knowledgable about college football. He has been received on Stingtalk as the prodigal son since he came back from the dark side, and that is good. But he didn't learn anything about college football while he was gone.

So lay off. please You have won the argument, but continued beating on stateline serves no purpose.

By the way, while I don't always agree with you, I do respect your college football knowledge and your knowledge of the Jackets.
 
Jacketup: Just what the heck am I missing? I'm no percieved reader of the future ala bullsh*t artists like Bunger Henry. But time has proven me right in that Tech was missing the boat in not recruiting Georgia and in going after best athletes in high school football.

Time has proven me right in that Gailey put together a poor staff when he arrived. I stated every year what Tech had to do to recruit staff wise and I have happily been able to see the changes that I called for bring success.....more success than I could have ever imagined.

I was right about Dave Braine.....not exactly brain surgery there though.

I was right about Jon Tenuta. I was praising the heck out of him long before it became a matter of fact thing to do on the Hive and here on Stingtalk.

I have been right about Reggie Ball also. Very many of the people you probably percieve as more knowledgable of college football figured Reggie would be an All-American candidate by now.

So just what am I missing.
 
The problem stateline is you've simply picked a player off the roster to champion without having any idea how he's actually performed on the field. Simply saying Garner is the answer because of his high school numbers or rankings is pointless. Reggie was in the top 15 or so of dual threat QBs the year he came in. Why don't you mention that? In fact, I think he was higher ranked than Carter, or at least on a par, in the same recruiting class.

I don't see anyone here saying Reggie is a great QB. But simply throwing out names is pointless. Personally I think the coaches are looking for someone to actually take the job away. No one has. They have all had their opportunity and have not impressed anyone enough to get it done. My thinking on this, from observing quite a few teams up close over the years, is that the players know who should be playing. Just at the team knew Donnie Davis should have been playing during the Lewis years. The team knows Reggie is our best bet right now.

BTW, bringing Suggs into this doesn't help your argument. I don't care what his completion percentage was, he was a bad play waiting to happen without the upside. Name me one great play he made to balance the bad ones and we can talk. I'm sure he's a great kid and person, but he gave away his position in the Silicon Valley Bowl.
 
ncjacket: Reggie's highschool credientials have no bearing when he has been the starter for 3 years. That's why I didn't bring it up.

As for me just pulling a player off the roster to champion him is wrong. Going by what other college coaches and scouts of astute credientials and also assuming that he has done everything expected of him since he has been at Georgia Tech as far as preparing himself to play......I've never heard anything to the contrary.......and giving the fact that Reggie has been terrible and Bennett more or less the same.......why not give Garner a chance at playing time.

Reggie's supporters in these debates have been wrong for 4 years running. There is no argument there though some will continue to due so.

As for Suggs, didn't he leave a nice impression of himself as he sought to rally Tech against Georgia by throwing 2 touchdowns in the second half......his only playing time the whole year. Remember the huge can of afterthoughts about his benching that he opened up with his performance?

'03 should have seen Suggs and Bilbo quarterbacking till one of them proved to be the best of the two with Reggie redshirting.....or playing in a running back-wingback role to get his atheticism on the field.

It didn't happen. But while that decision on itself shouldn't have an imprint on today.....it still does because this is the one area left that Coach Gailey has remained detrimentally stubborn to a fault at......naming a starter at quarterback and then locking everyone else out of a chance to compete for it. You say the coaches have been open and looking for someone to take the position from Reggie. I don't think you could be more wrong. Bennett is the perfect #2 because he doesn't have the ability to take over at #1 in my opinion. Garner does.

How can anyone expect more production and efficiency out of the quarterback position giving the up to date history of the on going starter of 4 years including this fall's scrimmage results is a question I would like to see answered.
 
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The thing is stateline, is that you don't know any of that to be true. This is a scenario that's played out in your head and no where else. Garner has had the opportunity every day in practice and in film sessions to convince the coaches that he's ready. So far, I haven't seen any posts from anyone who has attended practice say that he is ready to go. EVERY person who has posted on practices has said Reggie is still far and away our best option.

Is he a great QB? No, he has obvious shortcomings. But given that, every one else on the roster has had their chance to shine. Suggs blew his chance in the SVB and for very good reasons IMO. Bilbo had his chances, whether you want to believe it or not. Again, if the players felt he had been shortchanged you can bet it would have been evident. Remember Donnie Davis and Lugenbill? The players usually know.
 
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