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GoGATech

Big Dummy
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
11,811
PNode is getting less benefit of the doubt because while the OL is holding us back, we aren't catering to our strengths despite saying over and over that's what we do. It took 5 games to see a snap from under center on 4th and 1, we only just sprinkled in play action, and we haven't thrown any screens that I can recall. Mason only got the ball 15 times and rarely got it when all we needed was 2 yards.
That's the narrative they are using and I feel certain it's how it will be going forward when they get their guys in, but it's pretty much been blatantly stated that we're ripping the band aid off now to get as much experience and as many reps as we can in the type offense they want to run rather than run what we know that will likely only get us 1-2 extra wins this season. It will benefit us in the long run. The longer we keep running the old stuff we know, the longer the transition will take. I do agree to a point that some under center stuff should be thrown in there, but I honestly don't think that would've helped against Pitt. They were absolutely demolishing our OL in the run game.
 

WracerX

Dr. Dunkingstein
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
24,950
That's the narrative they are using and I feel certain it's how it will be going forward when they get their guys in, but it's pretty much been blatantly stated that we're ripping the band aid off now to get as much experience and as many reps as we can in the type offense they want to run rather than run what we know that will likely only get us 1-2 extra wins this season. It will benefit us in the long run. The longer we keep running the old stuff we know, the longer the transition will take. I do agree to a point that some under center stuff should be thrown in there, but I honestly don't think that would've helped against Pitt. They were absolutely demolishing our OL in the run game.
Pitt was killing our inside run game and killing us on dropback passes. But the DL is Pitt’s strength. That is why trying a bit more outside runs and swing plays would have helped.

But there is only so much you can adjust in game.

Another factor in the poor offensive showing was the return of poor snapping. I can only assume that the Pitt DT’s were getting inside of our centers head. It happens.
 

Vespidie

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
5,592
So, is Patenaude the official StingTalk scapegoat for the 2019 season? Or is that just the view among the idiots who never had any executive responsibilities and like to cast blame. There are dozens of pieces to this puzzle, and it will take a couple years to see the true picture. Maybe it will turn out that we need a different OC, but judging him at the start of this transition is ridiculous.
Yes.
 

GTCrew

Patrick Henry
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
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49,873
Well, imho, we dont have depth at receiver either because at the goal line we were regularly putting small speedy guys like Brown and Cottrell in where there isnt really room to use speed to create separation. Ideally we would have big and tall receivers on goalline.
 

aeromech

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
15,945
So, is Patenaude the official StingTalk scapegoat for the 2019 season? Or is that just the view among the idiots who never had any executive responsibilities and like to cast blame. There are dozens of pieces to this puzzle, and it will take a couple years to see the true picture. Maybe it will turn out that we need a different OC, but judging him at the start of this transition is ridiculous.
Maybe. Here are some thoughts on the subject from Temple:

Patenaude with the approval of Collins overhauled a highly successful Temple pro-type (at least the same pro-type run by Bill Belichick in Boston) and turned it into a spread ill-advised to suit the talents of the team he inherited all because that’s what “everybody else” does or because that’s what he did at Coastal Carolina. He probably should have won nine regular-season games his first year (instead of six) using the Matt Rhule system and at least 10 his second year but underachieved both years. In the 40-plus years I’ve followed Temple football, Patenaude was the worst coordinator-level coach here I’ve ever seen and there was not even a close second.

National people who don’t know better think Collins did a great job here. Local people here, not so much.

So what has he done in Atlanta?

He repeats the same mistake again, trying to force-fit square pegs into round holes.

Both have a team that was exclusively recruited to run a triple-option and have now turned it into a college spread because (you guessed it) “everybody else does it.” Great generals know if they have a strong infantry and weak cavalry they don’t design an attack based on the kind of cavalry they hope to have. Instead, they accentuate the infantry in any battleplan. Similarly, great coaches like Belichick don’t do things because everybody else does it. They do things to fit their personnel and make it work with flawless execution.
If that is too long to read, the summary is this:

If Patenaude and Collins were great coaches, they would recruit the personnel they want to fit their offense first and make it work only when those guys are ready to play and not the other way around. They would try to make some form of a triple-option work until then.
https://templefootballforever.wordpress.com/tag/dave-patenaude/
 

Architorture23

If ur players know u luv them, then u already won.
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
28,924
If Patenaude and Collins were great coaches, they would recruit the personnel they want to fit their offense first and make it work only when those guys are ready to play and not the other way around. They would try to make some form of a triple-option work until then.
If you don't know how to coach and scheme triple option football, you've got no business trying to run a triple option offense. Not to mention, they don't feel like they can recruit the personnel they want while running a triple option offense.

So that's just a dumb post all-around.
 

daBuzz

Dodd-Like
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
35,005
If you don't know how to coach and scheme triple option football, you've got no business trying to run a triple option offense. Not to mention, they don't feel like they can recruit the personnel they want while running a triple option offense.

So that's just a dumb post all-around.
Beat me to it. That statement alone shows the bias and ignorance of the person who wrote that article.
 

gtg970g

Dodd-Like
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Oct 10, 2013
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aeromech

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
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Temple averaged 1 win a season from 2003-2006 and managed 8 total wins from 1991-1996 (6 seasons) but the worst coaching he has ever seen was during the CGC era. They were playing in the mighty Big East so that could .... never-mind.
I think he made it pretty clear he was talking about CDP, not CGC; and he is clearly talking about utilizing the offensive talent on the roster. I doubt Temple had the talent to compete from 2003-2006. The 2005 class was ranked 108th in the nation according to 24/7.

He probably should have won nine regular-season games his first year (instead of six) using the Matt Rhule system and at least 10 his second year but underachieved both years. In the 40-plus years I’ve followed Temple football, Patenaude was the worst coordinator-level coach here I’ve ever seen and there was not even a close second.
 

knoxjacket

Dodd-Like
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
7,314
If you don't know how to coach and scheme triple option football, you've got no business trying to run a triple option offense. Not to mention, they don't feel like they can recruit the personnel they want while running a triple option offense.

So that's just a dumb post all-around.
The thing is Patenaude basically ran a triple option out of the shotgun at Coastal one year. The fact that we aren’t doing that makes me think that the coaching staff:

1) doesn’t think it would work.
2) Thinks we need to showcase more passing to attract the future.
 

GTLiebs

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
10,233
The thing is Patenaude basically ran a triple option out of the shotgun at Coastal one year. The fact that we aren’t doing that makes me think that the coaching staff:

1) doesn’t think it would work.
2) Thinks we need to showcase more passing to attract the future.
There also might not be much benefit if that option offense isn't very similar to Johnson's at a fundamental level. I think there's a lot of overestimating of how good of an option offense we could of had anyway, it's not like we were coming into this year with huge experience in the old offense. I'm also not sure if it's really workable to do a hybrid of those things, especially if you want it to be temporary.

The other issue is what it would do with the QB situation. Oliver would probably be the starter if we could do that on offense, but Graham and Johnson would have to be practicing it too as the backups. That part I think is one aspect that is like ripping off the bandaid. If we kept QB's practicing triple option stuff another year or two, we'd have a bunch of upperclassman QB's learning new offense things then instead of some young ones learning it now.
 

GTFLETCH

Dodd-Like
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Jun 30, 2014
Messages
2,589
IMHO OC Patenaude has to develop a different play calling gameplan. 30yard passes on 3rd down is unwise. Throw more on 1st. Here's the goal: >45% passes on 1st down. Part of the 3rd down problem is that the offense is not getting enough yardage on 1st and 2nd downs.

Here are the 13 third down plays:
3rd & 7 at GT 30
3rd & 8 at GT 31
3rd & 4 at GT 31
3rd & 7 at PITT 37 (converted)
3rd & 3 at PITT 18
3rd & 6 at GT 49
3rd & 15 at GT 15
3rd & 10 at GT 35
3rd & 8 at PITT 10
3rd & 8 at PITT 24 (converted)
3rd & Goal at PITT 4 (fumble)
3rd & 6 at GT 21
3rd & 8 at GT 13

That averages out to 7.2 yards needed on 3rd down, which is tough for any offense. I also think they need to come up with plays to get the ball in Tobias Oliver's hands. Let him run a series at quarterback for a change of pace. As a backup last year when he came in the other team knew he was going to run and not hand off and still could not stop him. Need to take advantage of his speed and running ability somewhere.
 

daBuzz

Dodd-Like
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
35,005
IMHO OC Patenaude has to develop a different play calling gameplan. 30yard passes on 3rd down is unwise. Throw more on 1st. Here's the goal: >45% passes on 1st down. Part of the 3rd down problem is that the offense is not getting enough yardage on 1st and 2nd downs.

Here are the 13 third down plays:
3rd & 7 at GT 30
3rd & 8 at GT 31
3rd & 4 at GT 31
3rd & 7 at PITT 37 (converted)
3rd & 3 at PITT 18
3rd & 6 at GT 49
3rd & 15 at GT 15
3rd & 10 at GT 35
3rd & 8 at PITT 10
3rd & 8 at PITT 24 (converted)
3rd & Goal at PITT 4 (fumble)
3rd & 6 at GT 21
3rd & 8 at GT 13

That averages out to 7.2 yards needed on 3rd down, which is tough for any offense. I also think they need to come up with plays to get the ball in Tobias Oliver's hands. Let him run a series at quarterback for a change of pace. As a backup last year when he came in the other team knew he was going to run and not hand off and still could not stop him. Need to take advantage of his speed and running ability somewhere.
That first 3rd and 7 in the list came after we had just thrown about a 25 yard pass that hit Carter in the hands and he dropped it.
 
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