Stop Blaming the Previous Coach

Ish

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How so? I didn't say CPJ (or CCG or CGO for that matter) wasn't relevant to discussion. I said it was stupid to blame him for awful offensive coaching this season and even stupider to create the false narrative that he drove the program into a ditch. He ended his tenure with a bowl game and a string of recruiting classes at or slightly above our recent historical average.

I still don't see how that is so controversial.
You're being obtuse and you know it. You see any mention of Paul in a negative light as "blame", when really it's people trying to figure out why we are where we are.

I will continue to beat the drum that one of the main reasons we're struggling right now is Mike Sewak/Paul Johnson's piss poor recruiting on the OL. Do you agree or disagree?

If you disagree then it's not worth discussing this topic with you.
 

GoGATech

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Wut?

Lucas is from California
Oliver is an option QB
Graham flipped from VT and had offers from Miami and NCSU.
He's not wrong. I like all of our guys and am grateful for them but facts are facts:

Lucas didn't have any P5 in-state offers in California.
Oliver was listed on rivals a dual threat QB but only held offers from us, Army, Mercer, and Troy.
Graham was being recruited by everyone as an ATH. We were likely the only ones to give him a shot at QB.
 

Walton

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Wut?

Lucas is from California
Oliver is an option QB
Graham flipped from VT and had offers from Miami and NCSU.
... to play QB.

Lucas wouldn't have been recruited by them. None of them would have gotten a 2nd look. The 3rd QB on most ACC teams is a better pro-pass QB than those 3 guys.

BTW, Graham shows potential but he is the type of guy that needs 2 years off the field to refine his skills.

Just to be clear, I love Oliver and he would have been great in Johnson's offense and can still do great things for GT, it just isn't going to be throwing the ball 30 times a game.
 

Diseqc

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How so? I didn't say CPJ (or CCG or CGO for that matter) wasn't relevant to discussion. I said it was stupid to blame him for awful offensive coaching this season and even stupider to create the false narrative that he drove the program into a ditch. He ended his tenure with a bowl game and a string of recruiting classes at or slightly above our recent historical average.

I still don't see how that is so controversial.
wE wOn SiX gAmEs LaSt YeAr
 

johncu

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How can you constantly blame everything on the coaching this year?
I haven't. I think I've been pretty clear that we've had a horrific offseason that put us in a pretty bad place. In fact, I started a thread about coaches who struggled mightily in their first year and did great things after that.

What is your point?
In this thread? My point is that Paul Johnson didn't destroy the program. He inherited a pretty great 2007 class, but otherwise it looks about the same as it did before that and after that. This was a down year due to a 2016 class that got torn apart, but there's more young talent on this team than we've had since 2008. The slight uptick in recruiting rankings backs that up.

Do you think we fire everybody and start over after 4 games?
Absolutely not. We're definitely recruiting better and seem to be playing better defense. I'm worried about our offensive game plan, though.

Who do you think would or could be doing any better right now given our situation?
In terms of getting offensive production despite being outmatched, I think Mike Leach, Lincoln Riley, any of the Briles, David Cutcliffe, Dan Mullen, Urban Meyer, Scott Frost, Jeff Brohm, Mike Norvell, Dana Holgorsen, Ryan Day, Jeff Monken, Ken Niumatololo, to name a few, would be scoring points. In terms of previous GT coaches, I think Ralph Friedgen and Paul Johnson would have absolutely called plays to take advantage of our strengths and what the defense was giving us.

Have you ever heard the saying, you need your best talent closest to the ball? That is our weak link. Yes we have talent at WR, talent at RB, and each QB has his strengths, but none are complete. This coupled with a piecemeal OL is a disaster in the making. We could have mediocre RB and WR, but if we had ANY decent experience on OL and QB, it would completely flip the script.
Agree with this. Our OL situation makes it very difficult right now. Regardless, we aren't beating Clemson or UGA anytime soon without out-scheming them so it's discouraging to see us look so horrible against teams with lesser or equal talent. Even if you want to argue that Temple is our match, talent-wise, they shut our offense out.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 

johncu

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You're being obtuse and you know it. You see any mention of Paul in a negative light as "blame", when really it's people trying to figure out why we are where we are.

I will continue to beat the drum that one of the main reasons we're struggling right now is Mike Sewak/Paul Johnson's piss poor recruiting on the OL. Do you agree or disagree?

If you disagree then it's not worth discussing this topic with you.
Agree, albeit noting that the OL recruiting has been consistent since PJ arrived and we still managed to field some pretty damn good offenses. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Sewak's brilliant coaching that elevated their game, so what conclusion would you make from that?

And no, there are plenty of things PJ didn't do well. He is either a poor defensive coach or made repeatedly bad DC hires. He was NOT a good recruiter, as I've said a million times. However, our recruiting rankings were in the 40s and 50s, and our offensive rankings were almost always top 25 with the occasional elite season. Now our offense is ranked 130th out of 130 despite playing the weakest part of our schedule. That's not a stretch to say our offense is performing extremely poorly, even factoring in talent deficiencies.
 

texstinger

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Weak. Revising history about the previous coach to rationalize losing to the Citadel. Look at our recruiting rankings since 2002 when Rivals started recording them:

2019 - 43
2018 - 53
2017 - 41
2016 - 67
2015 - 39
2014 - 47
2013 - 84
2012 - 57
2011- 41
2010 - 43
2009 - 49
2008 - 49
2007 - 18
2006 - 57
2005 - 62
2004 - 56
2003 - 49
2002 - 62

Please show me the downward spiral that you and others claim exists. I see one outlier year 12 years ago, and then a bunch of the same both before and after. If anything, our recruiting had trended UP slightly. We were a mediocre team the last couple years because we had mediocre players and didn't have a good enough QB to overcome that. So kindly take your nonsense about how bad our program was somewhere else.

Is that right?

- Please show me one single post where I rationalized about losing to Citadel.
- show me any post I made about the numerical “rankings” of any class, or under any coach.
- You said “didn’t have a good enough QB to overcome that.” Ain’t CGC fault, or mbob, or mine.

What I have said, and you can not seem to comprehend, is that either due to recruiting attitudes of the previous staff or the system being run then (or both) that certain roosters have come home to roost.

The previous system had some awesome O numbers at times - at the expense of D development and OL depth.

Maybe you are the type thinking that the ut game was a great success due to the O yardage, while I thought it was a disaster we lost that game. And I think it was that game when the biggest negatives of the system started to crystallize themselves for all to see.

Not being able to see how that has impacted this roster is foolish, blind loyalty, or stupidity.

So I would say take your blind loyalty to a person over the team & ignorance of fundamental roster management and take it somewhere else.
 
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GTLiebs

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Agree, albeit noting that the OL recruiting has been consistent since PJ arrived and we still managed to field some pretty damn good offenses. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Sewak's brilliant coaching that elevated their game, so what conclusion would you make from that?
Our offense was also kind of öööö at times back then, but to answer the question it's cause of Johnson's brilliant coaching that their game was elevated. Our offensive staff is probably not in his league, probably not in the league of that list of coaches in your previous post, and I don't think that is an unreasonable thing either.
 

Walton

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Our offense was also kind of öööö at times back then, but to answer the question it's cause of Johnson's brilliant coaching that their game was elevated. Our offensive staff is probably not in his league, probably not in the league of that list of coaches in your previous post, and I don't think that is an unreasonable thing either.
And we had some great coaches at the beginning of Johnson's tenure: Monken, Bohannan that were not there at the end.
 

Ish

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Agree, albeit noting that the OL recruiting has been consistent since PJ arrived and we still managed to field some pretty damn good offenses. I'm pretty sure it wasn't Sewak's brilliant coaching that elevated their game, so what conclusion would you make from that?

And no, there are plenty of things PJ didn't do well. He is either a poor defensive coach or made repeatedly bad DC hires. He was NOT a good recruiter, as I've said a million times. However, our recruiting rankings were in the 40s and 50s, and our offensive rankings were almost always top 25 with the occasional elite season. Now our offense is ranked 130th out of 130 despite playing the weakest part of our schedule. That's not a stretch to say our offense is performing extremely poorly, even factoring in talent deficiencies.
new coaches + new scheme + not super talented players + season-ending injuries at the worst possible positions = öööö sandwich, it is what it is

I think we can point to the defense- where there haven't been as many injuries- as a sign for optimism
 

johncu

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new coaches + new scheme + not super talented players + season-ending injuries at the worst possible positions = öööö sandwich, it is what it is

I think we can point to the defense- where there haven't been as many injuries- as a sign for optimism
Agree with this. I've been impressed with our defensive staff, although our ACC schedule will ultimately tell the full story. I've got no doubt that CGC has changed the culture in a positive way and does a great job motivating players. We finally have some of the aggressiveness on defense that we've been clamoring for since 2007, and it looks like the unsportsmanlike stuff from the Citadel game got handled since we didn't see it at Temple.

I coach HS soccer and am in year 3 after taking over from a coach who was here 11 years and was quite entrenched. I know full well that changing the culture is difficult and takes more than a year. Same goes for teaching a new system. The staff deserves some slack for that, for sure. That still doesn't explain or excuse why our playcalling looks jumbled and nonsensical half the time and the players don't know what the öööö is going on the other half. It's a long season, so hopefully we see some significant improvement as the year progresses. I'm thinking we settle on JG as QB1 going forward, so hopefully that stability will help us find our groove.
 

ElCidBUZZingFAN

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So I would say take your blind loyalty to a person over the team & ignorance of fundamental roster management and take it somewhere else.
You're projecting.

Just because you spent 11 years blind raging at a person over team/program loyalty doesn't mean anyone who expresses discontent with CGC are doing the same.
 
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GoGATech

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In terms of getting offensive production despite being outmatched, I think Mike Leach, Lincoln Riley, any of the Briles, David Cutcliffe, Dan Mullen, Urban Meyer, Scott Frost, Jeff Brohm, Mike Norvell, Dana Holgorsen, Ryan Day, Jeff Monken, Ken Niumatololo, to name a few, would be scoring points. In terms of previous GT coaches, I think Ralph Friedgen and Paul Johnson would have absolutely called plays to take advantage of our strengths and what the defense was giving us.
Thanks for taking the time to answer all of those. Your answers make sense and better illustrate your feelings on the situation. I'll admit that before, I was under the impression you were in the camp of, "this staff sucks and has ruined our team which is full of talent." There are some out there that I truly feel believe that. That being said, I have to disagree with you on this answer. Out of that list, I think the only two that probably could do better with our group of guys are the option guys, and that's only because it's what our guys know. There are some bigtime names and good coaches on there, but none have gone through the transformation we are trying to go through, and some of those guys have had some rough patches as well. Look at Scott Frost. Started out 0-6 at Nebraska. They didn't look competitive at all against Ohio State. As far as calling plays to take advantage of our strengths... I think that is where the problem lies. What plays are our strengths? QB option with TO? We are also transitioning and trying to show recruits what type of offense were are trying to shift to. You have to balance that or you lose interest of guys wanting to come play here. That's why I give the coaches a pass for now on play calling in particular.

Agree with this. Our OL situation makes it very difficult right now. Regardless, we aren't beating Clemson or UGA anytime soon without out-scheming them so it's discouraging to see us look so horrible against teams with lesser or equal talent. Even if you want to argue that Temple is our match, talent-wise, they shut our offense out.
They did shut our offense out, but at the same time, we fumbled on the 1-inch line, threw a bad pick in the endzone from the 15, and turned it over on downs inside the 20. We made a couple bad throws to open receivers that would've kept drives alive. We threw high fastballs to guys wide open at the sticks for 1st downs. We overthrew a wide open receiver with 5 yard separation for a TD. Those type things can't be pinned on coaching. Experience, repetition, and recruiting will fix those problems. If our goal was to not get shutout on offense, we had opportunities to try a FG but the game wasn't out of reach at any of those points and we needed TD's. We also aren't very confident in our kicking game right now and that also keeps points off the board. I'm not on or off board with anybody yet, but I think it's entirely too early to pass judgment on the staff. When our guys can consistently do what the coaches are asking them to do and it doesn't work, that's when we turn the focus to coaching.
 

Walton

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Sort of a side note: it was interesting when Kirby was hired at UGA he was much more vocal that he had roster problems and had to change the culture. (I guess Collins is the same on the culture but he does it from a positive POV more than Kirby did). And vast majority of UGA fans were right there with him saying yes, everything was awful under Richt.

Richt was a very successful coach, did a lot of things the right way on and off the field and there was a ton of his talent on UGA's NC losing team.
 
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texstinger

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You're projecting.

Just because you spent 11 years blind raging at a person over team/program loyalty doesn't mean anyone who expresses discontent with CGC are doing the same.
11 years, huh?

Then explain how a post i made in 09 after the VT game inspired someone in that post to coin the term "winsomniacs".

And regardless, when do some here think they have the right to tell others to take it "somewhere else"?
 

GTCrew4b

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They did shut our offense out, but at the same time, we fumbled on the 1-inch line, threw a bad pick in the endzone from the 15, and turned it over on downs inside the 20. We made a couple bad throws to open receivers that would've kept drives alive. We threw high fastballs to guys wide open at the sticks for 1st downs. We overthrew a wide open receiver with 5 yard separation for a TD. Those type things can't be pinned on coaching. Experience, repetition, and recruiting will fix those problems. If our goal was to not get shutout on offense, we had opportunities to try a FG but the game wasn't out of reach at any of those points and we needed TD's. We also aren't very confident in our kicking game right now and that also keeps points off the board. I'm not on or off board with anybody yet, but I think it's entirely too early to pass judgment on the staff. When our guys can consistently do what the coaches are asking them to do and it doesn't work, that's when we turn the focus to coaching.
THe best part of this post is that for almost all of CPJ's P5 losses you could say similar (losses mind you, not simply scoring on offense), and yet here we are patting ourselves on the back with moral victories for our offense getting shut out by a Group of 5 team, that I remember watching Maryland curb-stomp under Ralph Friedgen in person as my first college football experience.

The fear we all have/had is that Collins off the field stuff is off the charts but on the field he leaves something to be desired. So far the results are in front of our eyes and he has made BAD in-game decisions. I don't know that I've seen any positives coming out of halftime this season. These trends are not good.

The defensive improvement is great, and that's probably the route we need to go is become a defense focused school and make do on offense. Either that or go back to a tricky offense and not allow the narrative in the living room to be that your knees will get broken and the staff won't help you get to the NFL if you come to GT.
 

daBuzz

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THe best part of this post is that for almost all of CPJ's P5 losses you could say similar (losses mind you, not simply scoring on offense), and yet here we are patting ourselves on the back with moral victories for our offense getting shut out by a Group of 5 team, that I remember watching Maryland curb-stomp under Ralph Friedgen in person as my first college football experience.

The fear we all have/had is that Collins off the field stuff is off the charts but on the field he leaves something to be desired. So far the results are in front of our eyes and he has made BAD in-game decisions. I don't know that I've seen any positives coming out of halftime this season. These trends are not good.

The defensive improvement is great, and that's probably the route we need to go is become a defense focused school and make do on offense. Either that or go back to a tricky offense and not allow the narrative in the living room to be that your knees will get broken and the staff won't help you get to the NFL if you come to GT.
Yeah...because 4 games is a proper sample size to compare to 11 years.
I swear, some of you are literally retarded.
 

WracerX

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You're being obtuse and you know it. You see any mention of Paul in a negative light as "blame", when really it's people trying to figure out why we are where we are.

I will continue to beat the drum that one of the main reasons we're struggling right now is Mike Sewak/Paul Johnson's piss poor recruiting on the OL. Do you agree or disagree?

If you disagree then it's not worth discussing this topic with you.
Going into this year we would have had Cooper, Lee, and Braun. That is the core of an excellent triple option offensive line. A talented triple option line.

But to draw an analogy from another sport, we have a roster of decathletes. Which is great for the decathlon. It is probably pretty good for mid distance races. It maybe ok for for a random event here or there. But it is a bad track roster. We have the talent to win 6 games this year if we had picked the right offense. With CPJ we are an o/u 8 win team and considering the coastal a possible division winner. But our staff chose to play to the future. That’s fine, it probably saves us from two additional years of transition.

I think it is unfair to label the team as untalented. But entirely appropriate to recognize the mismatch in the skills our guys have when matched to what we want to do going forward.
 
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