The Case for Thacker

79tech

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No gap responsibility being done. no secondary responsibility being followed - it's pretty ugly and an AD may need to step in and say something. Like we need a new coordinator. The o coordinator is making progress thankfully
 

Walton

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No gap responsibility being done. no secondary responsibility being followed - it's pretty ugly and an AD may need to step in and say something. Like we need a new coordinator. The o coordinator is making progress thankfully
It seems like the younger players are making mistakes: pre and post snap so the older players think they have to over compensate and end up not doing their job. It is a bad mix at this time.

On offense, you can succeed with a couple of advantages that you can utilize. Defense is sort of the opposite: you have to be strong across the board or the offense will find your weakness and exploit it. We have too many weaknesses at this time and are losing the X/O adjustments that can be made around those. Of course, we could play more conservative bend but don't break but the staff is trying to build for the future.
 

vapspwi

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It seems like the younger players are making mistakes: pre and post snap so the older players think they have to over compensate and end up not doing their job. It is a bad mix at this time.
Definitely saw some unusual stuff in the background of TV shots Saturday. Curry on the sideline seemed to get after Sims for not fighting for/making a good move to get a first down. Juanyeh vigorously pointing (a “that’s your man” kind of thing) after a big gain against the defense.

Dunno if that stuff is good upperclassman leadership or frustration or an indication of a coaching gap. Maybe all three?

JRjr
 

Architorture23

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It seems like the younger players are making mistakes: pre and post snap so the older players think they have to over compensate and end up not doing their job. It is a bad mix at this time.

On offense, you can succeed with a couple of advantages that you can utilize. Defense is sort of the opposite: you have to be strong across the board or the offense will find your weakness and exploit it. We have too many weaknesses at this time and are losing the X/O adjustments that can be made around those. Of course, we could play more conservative bend but don't break but the staff is trying to build for the future.
The majority of the defense has good experience...
A. Clayton, Owens, Curry, J Thomas, Carpenter, Q. Jackson, T Swilling, K Oliver, Showell, and C Thomas are all upper classmen. Only DT is really young...
 

18in32

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The majority of the defense has good experience...
A. Clayton, Owens, Curry, J Thomas, Carpenter, Q. Jackson, T Swilling, K Oliver, Showell, and C Thomas are all upper classmen. Only DT is really young...
Don't you know the narrative? "GCG's talented guys are inexperienced, you must lower expectations." – Actually these are upperclassmen... – "Oh, in that case they were recruited by CPJ and must be talentless, you must lower expectations."

There's no reason to blame the S/A's for our defensive lapses. This isn't like a guy just dropping a ball on a wide open route. These are coaching failures, pure and simple. Doesn't mean they can't be corrected – in fact, I've been impressed with Thacker's 2d half corrections by and large. But you judge someone by a body of work, and so far our defensive body of work is pretty poor.
 

Flywheel

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Don't you know the narrative? "GCG's talented guys are inexperienced, you must lower expectations." – Actually these are upperclassmen... – "Oh, in that case they were recruited by CPJ and must be talentless, you must lower expectations."

There's no reason to blame the S/A's for our defensive lapses. This isn't like a guy just dropping a ball on a wide open route. These are coaching failures, pure and simple. Doesn't mean they can't be corrected – in fact, I've been impressed with Thacker's 2d half corrections by and large. But you judge someone by a body of work, and so far our defensive body of work is pretty poor.
Truth. I do think he's hamstrung by a lack of strength at DT, which for my money is the most important position in college football. It's a position that lacked depth even before BA died, and since that time we continued to be swamped with injuries and departures such that half the players are DE's who were asked to gain weight. But that also speaks to Thacker's job as a recruiter, which is to fill that gap. Right now, the only pureblood DT we've committed in 2 years is Zeek.

David Curry could be Ray Lewis and still be out of position often when we're getting nullified at the point of attack.
 

18in32

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David Curry could be Ray Lewis and still be out of position often when we're getting nullified at the point of attack.
Yeah, David Curry gets way too much flak on this board. Good S/A who represents the Institute well, does a decent job most of the time, and most importantly is our best option at his position. I acknowledge that he's a slow white dude, and he did whiff on that sack. But by and large the guy's a dependable player and makes the tackle when it's there.

Or put it this way, whatever his faults, they're hardly unique to him on the defense. A lot of our players (including the fast ones) have been made to look really slow these past few games.
 

coit

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Or we’re in a year like no other and the type of development opportunity players would get is not available at this moment

The practice i attended, younger guys were getting practice reps they would typical see in a week time span. Again, let’s not act as if our defense has been avg or decent. We’ve awful defenses with some of the players being awful under 3 DCs. There is only 1 common denominator. This absolve the coaches bc they deserve a nice chunk of the blame, but the sky is falling attitude is not justified right now
Hey ibb, if you have some time I'd love to see you break down a few of our plays against Boston College. It seems that we were simply not in the positions we should've been. Especially in the LB positions.
 

Architorture23

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Hey ibb, if you have some time I'd love to see you break down a few of our plays against Boston College. It seems that we were simply not in the positions we should've been. Especially in the LB positions.
Spoiler alert: Curry jumping out and covering flats and vacating the middle of the field throughout the game.
 

Walton

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The majority of the defense has good experience...
A. Clayton, Owens, Curry, J Thomas, Carpenter, Q. Jackson, T Swilling, K Oliver, Showell, and C Thomas are all upper classmen. Only DT is really young...
Backups at LBs, DT; DE in general; backups in the secondary are all pretty young. I agree we have enough experience that we SHOULD be better but there is a lot of young players mixed in.

As implied, we probably are playing too many players especially for high execution on defense but that would mean not developing and playing in the future design of the defense.
 

coit

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Spoiler alert: Curry jumping out and covering flats and vacating the middle of the field throughout the game.
Yeah, I distinctly remember one draw play where the middle was wide open. Was hoping to get more insight as to why that was happening. Did we just think the QB wouldn't be a running threat?
 

gtchief

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I don’t know how to politely say it except that next year I hope we see an uptick in play on that side of the ball similar to the flashes we’ve seen on the offensive side, even if they are wildly inconsistent.
 

GTLiebs

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The majority of the defense has good experience...
A. Clayton, Owens, Curry, J Thomas, Carpenter, Q. Jackson, T Swilling, K Oliver, Showell, and C Thomas are all upper classmen. Only DT is really young...
That kind of is why I lean the problems a bit more toward the players, kind of expected better from them given that they aren't seeing all this for the first time. Only other thing I can really think of for all the blown assignments is if our coverage schemes are overly complex. I don't have an eye to judge for that. Or maybe that the coverage stuff changed so much from Roof to Woody to Thacker that they're still catching up? Also don't know enough of the ins and outs of that to tell if that is plausible.
 

vapspwi

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That kind of is why I lean the problems a bit more toward the players, kind of expected better from them given that they aren't seeing all this for the first time. Only other thing I can really think of for all the blown assignments is if our coverage schemes are overly complex. I don't have an eye to judge for that.
Seems like just about every year under CPJ, regardless of DC, we heard about the schemes being too complicated and needing to simplify.

Have the coordinators made things too complicated compared to the old days? Or are the players not as sharp? Is there just not time to teach the schemes given practice restrictions? Do you need to be in the system for 4 years to really learn it?

JRjr
 

Walton

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Seems like just about every year under CPJ, regardless of DC, we heard about the schemes being too complicated and needing to simplify.

Have the coordinators made things too complicated compared to the old days? Or are the players not as sharp? Is there just not time to teach the schemes given practice restrictions? Do you need to be in the system for 4 years to really learn it?

JRjr
Well, I know this is going to sound obvious but we aren't especially fast on defense. Speed helps you recover from mistakes.
 

Architorture23

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Don't you know the narrative? "GCG's talented guys are inexperienced, you must lower expectations." – Actually these are upperclassmen... – "Oh, in that case they were recruited by CPJ and must be talentless, you must lower expectations."

There's no reason to blame the S/A's for our defensive lapses. This isn't like a guy just dropping a ball on a wide open route. These are coaching failures, pure and simple. Doesn't mean they can't be corrected – in fact, I've been impressed with Thacker's 2d half corrections by and large. But you judge someone by a body of work, and so far our defensive body of work is pretty poor.
Disagree... there is plenty to blame on the players. I do not, for one second, think that they are being coached to forego their assignments and vacate their zones. Or take bad angles or arm tackle.These are mental lapses and the player has to make the plays and execute. I think it is reductionist to just say that blown coverages and assignments just means the coach didn't do a good enough job teaching. especially for upper classmen.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure there is also plenty to blame on coaching. There is some to blame on talent as well.
 

GTLiebs

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Seems like just about every year under CPJ, regardless of DC, we heard about the schemes being too complicated and needing to simplify.

Have the coordinators made things too complicated compared to the old days? Or are the players not as sharp? Is there just not time to teach the schemes given practice restrictions? Do you need to be in the system for 4 years to really learn it?

JRjr
That connection from the current to the past is something I've noticed. Don't know if it's something to do with the type/caliber of player the previous staff recruited for defense or if it means the defensive coaches we have now are the same caliber as who we had under Johnson.

Aside from that part about complexity, I wonder if all the coaching changes can have that big of an effect. We have juniors and seniors on the OL that basically had to start over learning stuff, so I figured that experience could be a deceptive measure there. I wouldn't of thought that also being the case on defense, but maybe even though its not as dramatic of a shift as offense, the 3 DCs in 3 years could be making the experience the older players have not mean as much? I don't have enough knowledge to say anything definitive on what kind of difference there can be.
 

AlaGold

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Backups at LBs, DT; DE in general; backups in the secondary are all pretty young. I agree we have enough experience that we SHOULD be better but there is a lot of young players mixed in.

As implied, we probably are playing too many players especially for high execution on defense but that would mean not developing and playing in the future design of the defense.
I just read a walk-on FRESHMAN at Wake F . intercepted THREE passes in last game. FR can play. In- exp didn't stop him.
 
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