The Case for Thacker

BrentwoodJacket

Dodd-Like
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
2,658
Seems like just about every year under CPJ, regardless of DC, we heard about the schemes being too complicated and needing to simplify.

Have the coordinators made things too complicated compared to the old days? Or are the players not as sharp? Is there just not time to teach the schemes given practice restrictions? Do you need to be in the system for 4 years to really learn it?

JRjr
This is puzzling. My expectation is that our players are more intelligent than any team we play. That is supposed to be the one advantage we always have going back to the Dodd teams.
 

gtrower

Dodd-Like
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
8,494
I just read a walk-on FRESHMAN at Wake F . intercepted THREE passes in last game. FR can play. In- exp didn't stop him.
I watched the condensed game. It’s a neat story, but he was 10 yards away from the play on all 3. Think one was tipped and the other two were terrible throws. I’d definitely trade DLs with WF though.
 

18in32

Petard Hoister
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
21,103
I do not, for one second, think that they are being coached to forego their assignments and vacate their zones. Or take bad angles or arm tackle.These are mental lapses and the player has to make the plays and execute. I think it is reductionist to just say that blown coverages and assignments just means the coach didn't do a good enough job teaching. especially for upper classmen.
Yeah, I didn't really mean that the player bears no fault. The players always bear fault, since they're the ones on the field. And the coaches always bear fault, since their the ones getting paid. And the fans always bear fault, since they could've given a little bit more. There's no human enterprise in which any group isn't to blame somehow. But if we're trying to allocate blame... how do we slice and dice it?

Of course the players aren't being coached to miss their assignments. But... why are they missing their assignments? Rather than say the player's bad and assume the instructional technique (coaching) is good, I think the player's are OK and the instructional technique is bad. Mental lapses are coachable, and it's the coach's job to coach them. But sure, it's all everyone's fault to some extent.

D. Thomas dropping the ball on 4th down in 2009, is the player's fault. Players being out of position throughout the MTSU debacle, was Al Groh's fault.
 

Walton

Flats Noob
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
515
I just read a walk-on FRESHMAN at Wake F . intercepted THREE passes in last game. FR can play. In- exp didn't stop him.
Of course there are exceptions. We have one on our team: Gibbs is clearly ready to play at this level. Sims is more the norm if very talented: lots of big plays with lots of mistakes.
 

WracerX

Dr. Dunkingstein
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
15,941
Disagree... there is plenty to blame on the players. I do not, for one second, think that they are being coached to forego their assignments and vacate their zones. Or take bad angles or arm tackle.These are mental lapses and the player has to make the plays and execute. I think it is reductionist to just say that blown coverages and assignments just means the coach didn't do a good enough job teaching. especially for upper classmen.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure there is also plenty to blame on coaching. There is some to blame on talent as well.
Some of the bad angles are lining up too far back for the speed of our linebackers. But we got out schemed when BC got their #1 receiver single covered by our MLB. No LB is going to cover that well.
 

BrentwoodJacket

Dodd-Like
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
2,658
I watched the condensed game. It’s a neat story, but he was 10 yards away from the play on all 3. Think one was tipped and the other two were terrible throws. I’d definitely trade DLs with WF though.
Question related to Wake. They are one of the schools that no longer require an ACT or SAT score for admission. Does that mean that is no longer required by the NCAA for their athletes?
 

BigDanT

Damn the Torpedoes
Ban Hammer'd
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
4,528
I just read a walk-on FRESHMAN at Wake F . intercepted THREE passes in last game. FR can play. In- exp didn't stop him.
Many players who are average can have amazing stats in a game or even a season at the college level. Parity is what makes it so great. But if after the turnover you go three and out then give up a touchdown easily it doesn’t matter.
 

BainbridgeJacket

A rare combination of humility and genius
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
11,257
Yeah, I didn't really mean that the player bears no fault. The players always bear fault, since they're the ones on the field. And the coaches always bear fault, since their the ones getting paid. And the fans always bear fault, since they could've given a little bit more. There's no human enterprise in which any group isn't to blame somehow. But if we're trying to allocate blame... how do we slice and dice it?

Of course the players aren't being coached to miss their assignments. But... why are they missing their assignments? Rather than say the player's bad and assume the instructional technique (coaching) is good, I think the player's are OK and the instructional technique is bad. Mental lapses are coachable, and it's the coach's job to coach them. But sure, it's all everyone's fault to some extent.

D. Thomas dropping the ball on 4th down in 2009, is the player's fault. Players being out of position throughout the MTSU debacle, was Al Groh's fault.
How about this: these same players have sucked for 3 different DCs, who have been successful at stops before and since, along with an assortment of assistants and GAs. It sure seems like we need to reestablish the culture at the LB and S positions with some transfers.
 

vapspwi

Dodd-Like
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Messages
4,851
This is puzzling. My expectation is that our players are more intelligent than any team we play. That is supposed to be the one advantage we always have going back to the Dodd teams.
I used to think that, and maybe it’s true in an academic sense to some extent. In the Dodd era when I imagine college players were closer to really being students, maybe that gave us an advantage.

Now, though, I’m not sure being “Tech smart” really translates into being “football smart” enough to give us an advantage. Not based on the things I’ve seen and heard in the last maybe 20 years. When CPJ was here, I imagined that some of the traits I hear about military academy players would show up here - picking up the system quickly, preparing and playing with discipline, even stuff like stealing signs with some code breaking skills. I can’t really recall that ever materializing.

JRjr
 

18in32

Petard Hoister
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
21,103
How about this: these same players have sucked for 3 different DCs, who have been successful at stops before and since, along with an assortment of assistants and GAs. It sure seems like we need to reestablish the culture at the LB and S positions with some transfers.
I'm not sure what that means, but I'm happy to blame 'culture' if you like. Also not sure how to correct it!
 

pianoman

Varsity Lurker
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
133
Question related to Wake. They are one of the schools that no longer require an ACT or SAT score for admission. Does that mean that is no longer required by the NCAA for their athletes?
Next year nobody has to. However, I think WFU players have been required to pass eligibility requirements, which until now, included a min SAT.
Btw, the reason I heard about them dropping SAT was to more easily diversify their student body, but was probably used even more just trying to admit more men (I was a prof at wfu, nice school, I taught a bunch of athletes).
 

OptionsJacket

If you don't like what they say, punch em
Joined
Sep 3, 2020
Messages
688
There's no reason to blame the S/A's for our defensive lapses. This isn't like a guy just dropping a ball on a wide open route. These are coaching failures, pure and simple. Doesn't mean they can't be corrected – in fact, I've been impressed with Thacker's 2d half corrections by and large. But you judge someone by a body of work, and so far our defensive body of work is pretty poor.
What about when Curry makes a move, gets to the QB, then whiffs? That's on the player. There's a body of work there with some players. That's the most frustrating types of plays for me. I agree that coaching is lacking on most of the occasions, however. All we can do is long for improvement from everyone. Then celebrate hard when we kick Notre Dames arse
 

18in32

Petard Hoister
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
21,103
What about when Curry makes a move, gets to the QB, then whiffs? That's on the player. There's a body of work there with some players. That's the most frustrating types of plays for me. I agree that coaching is lacking on most of the occasions, however
Yeah, that's fair. That whiff was bad and Curry knew it. But in the aggregate, our defensive woes have not been attributable to whiffs like that.
 

aeromech

Dodd-Like
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
11,776
Yeah, that's fair. That whiff was bad and Curry knew it. But in the aggregate, our defensive woes have not been attributable to whiffs like that.
Nor is Curry the only one who has whiffed on a tackle. This board just likes heaping a disproportionate amount of our defensive problems on Curry, in part I suspect because he is very easy to spot on the field. I'm not convinced he is actually playing worse than anyone else.
 

OptionsJacket

If you don't like what they say, punch em
Joined
Sep 3, 2020
Messages
688
Nor is Curry the only one who has whiffed on a tackle. This board just likes heaping a disproportionate amount of our defensive problems on Curry, in part I suspect because he is very easy to spot on the field. I'm not convinced he is actually playing worse than anyone else.
I am. We can agree to disagree.
 

savbandjacket

Critical Infrastructure
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
20,298
How about this: these same players have sucked for 3 different DCs, who have been successful at stops before and since, along with an assortment of assistants and GAs. It sure seems like we need to reestablish the culture at the LB and S positions with some transfers.
I think this is the problem. We seem to lack those guys who are the field generals and know the defense as well as the coordinator. Maybe it’s because all of the old guys have played through multiple coordinators with bad results, maybe it’s a lack of talent, maybe a combination of the two. But we don’t seem to have that guy who makes every play when it comes his way and who coaches everyone else on the field.
 

KrazieJacket

Dodd-Like
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
7,632
This is puzzling. My expectation is that our players are more intelligent than any team we play. That is supposed to be the one advantage we always have going back to the Dodd teams.
There might be cases where our players are more intelligent than other teams but they don’t get as much time to dedicate towards football?
 
Top