The Falcons must drop Vick, whether he's innocent or not

refrigeratormover said:
I think this is a case that for once upshaw who I despise will have to meet with gooddell and find common ground to resolve the next step and then move forward.

I for one if were still playing would vote for a LOA because of the huge distraction and chances are the guys I played with would vote the same.

I wouldn't want to be around the protest's all the time the whole season every where I went. It's going to be a nightmare.
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If I were a player I think that I would take this same stance regarding the LOA. But, I heard Joe Horn on the radio today saying how he's encouraging MV to refuse a voluntary LOA. He said he's been talking to him every day and encouraging him to continue to play football because it is one of the only things that can take MV's mind off of his legal issues. That and dog fighting.

But in all seriousness, how crazy does Joe Horn have to be to really think that that's in the best interest of the Falcons (and MV for that matter)?
 
77GTFan said:
After last season Vick had decent trade value. Schaub could have been given a chance to start. A draft pick could have been used for a QB.

I fault the Falcons for not knowing Michael Vick well enough to predict this kind of outcome. Now, Schaub is gone, Vick's trade value is non-existent, and the Falcons QB could serve time. At the very least the Falcons have a QB that is a public relations nightmare who takes up a lot of cap space.

Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But, good NFL franchises have good foresight when it comes to their personnel.
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Vick had very little trade value last year because of his contract - to insinuate that trade value was there shows your lack of understanding about the economics of the NFL. Not only would most teams not want to take on his contract, the Falcons salary cap would have been destroyed (last year) by trading him.
 
haywire83 said:
But in all seriousness, how crazy does Joe Horn have to be to really think that that's in the best interest of the Falcons (and MV for that matter)?
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No matter what the distractions, I think Vick playing is better for the Falcons than Harrington playing. At least in the immediate future, which is what a vet like Horn would be thinking about.
 
haywire83 said:
If I were a player I think that I would take this same stance regarding the LOA. But, I heard Joe Horn on the radio today saying how he's encouraging MV to refuse a voluntary LOA. He said he's been talking to him every day and encouraging him to continue to play football because it is one of the only things that can take MV's mind off of his legal issues. That and dog fighting.

But in all seriousness, how crazy does Joe Horn have to be to really think that that's in the best interest of the Falcons (and MV for that matter)?
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Joe Horn cares about himself and hoping MV plays for his numbers to be good enough to get bonuses, let's not kid ourselves.

As for MV playing and keeping his mind off possible prision all I got to say is YEAH RIGHT! He will be much more of a distraction to the whole franchise if he steps foot on the falcons complex.

As for someone saying that the falcons should have known more about vick and his antics when they drafted them, Teams usually get it right about 90% of the time these days meaning the last 10 to 12 years, but some are always going to slip through.
 
Legally, how risky is it to suspend Vick for being accused of a crime. Seems like in the past if you took an action against someone who was accused but not convicted that you opened yourself up to liability if they were acquitted or charges were later dropped. We have enough laywers on here to clarify.

Of course, I understand that Vick's contract may specify that he could be suspended if any number of things happen (arrest, bad PR, etc.) then it would just be a contractual situation.
 
ramblinwise1 said:
Legally, how risky is it to suspend Vick for being accused of a crime. Seems like in the past if you took an action against someone who was accused but not convicted that you opened yourself up to liability if they were acquitted or charges were later dropped. We have enough laywers on here to clarify.

Of course, I understand that Vick's contract may specify that he could be suspended if any number of things happen (arrest, bad PR, etc.) then it would just be a contractual situation.
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Good question, particularly after our suspension of Reuben Houston got overturned in court. I suspect if they 'suspended him without pay' it would be significantly different than if they 'suspended him with pay'. I assume you were thinking 'suspended without pay'.
 
I thought pro sports were a business (one reason they don't interest me.)

Well, in business sometimes even very smart and successful people make mistakes and have to pay for them.

If salary cap crap means Mr. Blank has to suffer from this (and the team as well), then maybe a lesson will be learned and they move forward. Maybe he should not have invested so much in a thug. Maybe the contract should not have been written as it is. Maybe he should have thought it through more carefully as regards to what he is dealing with. It is not like he didn't have a clue.

Such is life. Even for rich people.
 
tangential question

How long has dog fighting been illegal? I bet its a fairly recent (in context of the life of Anglo-American legal system) development. Is there anyone on here who is older than 40 who doesn't remember someone who intentionally killed a dog? Honest question. I know lots of hunters and kids who killed dogs at some point for some reason.

Hell virtually everyone is guilty of some crime now. We have an explosion of laws making things illegal as we allow government to intrude further and further into our lives and set standards of conduct.

Having said that, I am not arguing in Vick's favor. We just need to keep this in perspective. Isn't sodomy still a felony in Georgia, including oral and anal sex?
 
Re: tangential question

ramblinwise1 said:
How long has dog fighting been illegal? I bet its a fairly recent (in context of the life of Anglo-American legal system) development.
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The first anti-dogfighting laws were enacted in New York in 1866. All 50 states have had dogfighting laws for most of the 20th century.


There's a big, big difference between culling dogs unsuitable for whatever reason and watching them fight each other for entertainment and gambling. This is NOT a case of big government intruding on people's private lives. Not even close. Ain't no perspective to it.
 
Re: tangential question

ramblinwise1 said:
Having said that, I am not arguing in Vick's favor. We just need to keep this in perspective. Isn't sodomy still a felony in Georgia, including oral and anal sex?
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There was a high school football player who had oral sex with a 15 year old when he was 17, and got locked up for 10 years. Funny thing is...if he had actually had sex with her, it would have been a misdemeanor. It was the oral sex part that got him, because it is a felony in Georgia. There were many articles about it on ESPN.com a while ago...a heart breaking story, really. Guy had a scholarship to college and everything.
 
Re: tangential question

ramblinwise1 said:
Hell virtually everyone is guilty of some crime now. We have an explosion of laws making things illegal as we allow government to intrude further and further into our lives and set standards of conduct.
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Don't even go there man. We are talking about hanging, shooting, beating and electrocuting dogs for either losing fights or choosing not to fight at all. Don't even try to justify this.:mad:
 
Re: tangential question

techjacket said:
Don't even go there man. We are talking about hanging, shooting, beating and electrocuting dogs for either losing fights or choosing not to fight at all. Don't even try to justify this.:mad:
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Didn't the Supreme Court previously rule that death by electrocution, hanging, and firing squad, was neither cruel nor unusual? And Ramblinwise has a point, I'm over 40 and I have seen people rid themselves of undesired dogs using a gun on more than one occassion. In fact, you can still find people who think taking a dog to a vet is for ignorant city slickers who have more money than they do sense. Nancy Grace described the way the dogs were treated as "dehumanizing":confused: I never knew they were 'human' to begin with, I thought they were canines.

I have to wonder how many people who think what Mike Vick was doing was barbaric enjoy watching UFC or IFL? If you watch that stuff and think M. Vick is sick...
 
77GTFan said:
good NFL franchises have good foresight when it comes to their personnel.
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That's what it's all about. Arthur (and the boy wonder, McKay) must be kicking himself over this because he should have seen it coming and he totally missed it. Not to mention the Shaub deal.

Holy Batsh*t!
 
Re: tangential question

aeromech said:
Didn't the Supreme Court previously rule that death by electrocution, hanging, and firing squad, was neither cruel nor unusual? And Ramblinwise has a point, I'm over 40 and I have seen people rid themselves of undesired dogs using a gun on more than one occassion. In fact, you can still find people who think taking a dog to a vet is for ignorant city slickers who have more money than they do sense. Nancy Grace described the way the dogs were treated as "dehumanizing":confused: I never knew they were 'human' to begin with, I thought they were canines.

I have to wonder how many people who think what Mike Vick was doing was barbaric enjoy watching UFC or IFL? If you watch that stuff and think M. Vick is sick...
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Apples and oranges my friend. Sure the supreme court ruled it. And who do we usually do this to, rapist, serial killers, etc??? Hmmm, lot different than doing this to an innocent animal who did NOTHING to deserve it whatsoever.

Yeah, I have seen dogs put down for numerous reasons. Human attacks, old age, sickness, etc. I see nothing wrong with that at all.

And you comparing this to the UFC? I have no problems with men WILLINGLY getting in a ring to fight it it out with each other. That's what they have chose to do with their lives.

Now I'll give ya the "dehumanizing" thing. Don't quite understand that one.

This was just wrong. There is no way to justify what happened to these animals.
 
Re: tangential question

techjacket said:
This was just wrong. There is no way to justify what happened to these animals.
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If Vick did what he is accused of he deserves to go to prison, and be expelled from the NFL. I'm not trying to justify it; but on the other hand, there is a lot of sensationalism going on right now both in the media and on message boards. Dog fighting and all that surrounds it has no appeal to me; but neither does ultimate fighting championships for similar reasons.

Some people seem to think what Vick did to dogs is somehow comparable to murderers, rapist, and child molestors; and deserves similar punishment (or worse). I think a lot of people have lost perspective.
 
Re: tangential question

gth816f said:
There was a high school football player who had oral sex with a 15 year old when he was 17, and got locked up for 10 years. Funny thing is...if he had actually had sex with her, it would have been a misdemeanor. It was the oral sex part that got him, because it is a felony in Georgia. There were many articles about it on ESPN.com a while ago...a heart breaking story, really. Guy had a scholarship to college and everything.
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That one is going to the Supreme Court this week I believe.
 
Re: tangential question

aeromech said:
Didn't the Supreme Court previously rule that death by electrocution, hanging, and firing squad, was neither cruel nor unusual? And Ramblinwise has a point, I'm over 40 and I have seen people rid themselves of undesired dogs using a gun on more than one occassion. In fact, you can still find people who think taking a dog to a vet is for ignorant city slickers who have more money than they do sense. Nancy Grace described the way the dogs were treated as "dehumanizing":confused: I never knew they were 'human' to begin with, I thought they were canines.

I have to wonder how many people who think what Mike Vick was doing was barbaric enjoy watching UFC or IFL? If you watch that stuff and think M. Vick is sick...
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I think of my dogs as human and those guys in Ultimate Fighting have a choice. They aren't shot up with drugs to make them agressive. Give me a break. It is horrible and if he did it he should rot in jail. If he can participate in dog fighting and kill dogs like that he is wired wrong and he can do harm to people. It sickens me to think there are people out there who think this is normal behaviour.
 
Re: tangential question

gth816f said:
There was a high school football player who had oral sex with a 15 year old when he was 17, and got locked up for 10 years. Funny thing is...if he had actually had sex with her, it would have been a misdemeanor. It was the oral sex part that got him, because it is a felony in Georgia. There were many articles about it on ESPN.com a while ago...a heart breaking story, really. Guy had a scholarship to college and everything.
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Yeah, real heartbreaking. 6 guys take 2 girls age 17 and 15 to a hotel room, give them drugs and alcohol and take turns doing every sex act imaginable with both of them and videotape the proceedings. The reason it became an issue was that the 17 year old accused them of rape, and the police got the videotape.
 
Sounds like a typical Panama City Beach spring break trip for my highschool.

**

Back on topic - you deal with the salary cap issue long term, because it's clearly a long term issue that can be sorted out in the next off-season, and short-term you bench him and he never sees a snap in practice this year. Put your eggs in the Harrington basket and brace for a rough year. That's the only real option.

..and that sounds like what they might end up doing.
 
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