The Georgia Illusion

[The Jacket]

Why are you asking me pointed questions that have easy answers unless you want to disagree with me?

Because that's the first time I've heard someone say that? Because I wanted to know? Because you posted in this thread which I made and clearly it's a topic I want to discuss? Take your pick. Does it really matter? Nonsense like this is the kind of garbage that turns generic conversation on this forum into idiotic bickering. I may and do disagree with you on some of your points about Georgia's players, but I had no intention of arguing with you, nor do I any longer care to actually discuss it with you considering how adverse you seem to be to an argument but simultaneously willing to troll your way into one.

Thanks for wasting my time on responding to that question.

Thanks for acting like a complete jackass. If you didn't want to respond, by all means ignore it. That, or press charges against the guy holding the gun to your head, forcing you to do it.

Jesus Christ. Can we get a chart for when each StingTalk member is going to be on the rag so I can schedule my thread ideas in advance?

 

[GTCrew]

Greene > Zeier > Stafford
Hamilton > Godsey > Stafford

Other than Greene being the best of the bunch I think the others are debateable. Hamilton is apples and oranges for me as he was like Tebow with a strong run/throw package.

Comparing the best QBs at GT and UGA to Stafford is a waste anyway. How many teams have better drop-back QBs than Stafford this year?

 

[beej67]

How many teams have better drop-back QBs than Stafford this year?

Probably a half dozen. Stafford is barely a top ten QB.

Don't take that away from him - he probably is top ten, and that's nothing to scoff at - but barely eeking top ten when your team is supposed to be in title contention isn't going to cut it, unless all the other areas of the team are much better, which they're not.

Oh lets see.

Chase Daniel >>> Stafford
Colt McCoy > Stafford
Tebow > Stafford
[SIZE=-1]Mark Sanchez > Stafford
Max Hall > Stafford
Riley Skinner > Stafford

Off the top of my head, I would rather have any of those guys as my starting QB instead of Stafford.

I'm unsold on any Big 10 QBs so far this year.
[/SIZE]

 

[JacketDan]

The obscene number of balls heaved into triple coverage on Saturday make me question the Stafford = top QB thing. Sure if we lined him up with some of the other QB's in the country and asked them to just throw long balls or run non-contact drills he would look great, but I question both his decision making and his leadership capabilities enough to pull him out of the top QB category.

I agree with RBs and WR's though in terms of talent. Though their WR coach still seems to give a lot of his guys a case of stone hands every week.

 

[77GTFan]

Given that skill position players refers to QB's, TE's WR's, and RB's, the point is well-taken that UGA has the best skill position players in the country. They have great talent and depth. Who would you argue is better?
USC is right there with UGA, maybe Oklahoma belongs with those two
A notch below would be Florida, Texas, Ohio State
The next level - Missourri, Oregon, BYU, Texas Tech. I'd argue Clemson should be ACC's best, though they aren't performing like it.

 

[BarrelORum]

Spurrier (Heisman) rode the bench. Pat Sullivan (Heisman) rode the bench. Danny Wuerffel (Heisman) rode the bench/quit. Tommy Frazier never played QB. Ryan Leaf rode the bench. David Greene rides the bench. All incredible college QB's.

Happens all the time. I agree that Stafford's height will hinder him in the NFL, but he has the arm to play for sure.

How do you exclude Lil Joe from that example?

 

[BarrelORum]

Jesus Christ. Can we get a chart for when each StingTalk member is going to be on the rag so I can schedule my thread ideas in advance?

Like I said it pretty simple, if you disagree with what I said then either:
a.) Your a biased Tech fan.
or
b.) You don't know dick about college football.

I put you in group a. Either way, you're wrong. And you can call me out for "being on the rag" but the bottom line is you made a very great and very true statement and then backed it up with nothing.

The Georgia Illusion was created for exactly what I said. They don't have great offensive or defensive lines. That's what bit them in the ass. that and a coach who thinks he can succeed by doing very superficial things like storming the field or wearing a different colored jersey. That may stir the emotional play but it doesn't do squat for strategy and execution. Richt was totally out coached in that game, and it took him until halftime to figure it out.

Again, you can say I am a complete jackass, but instead of discussing anything I said in my first response, you decided to question an opinion of mine that is pretty much held by the collective college football world. But I'm the one being a jackass...

ok.

 

[BarrelORum]

Probably a half dozen. Stafford is barely a top ten QB.Chase Daniel >>> Stafford
Colt McCoy > Stafford
Tebow > Stafford
[SIZE=-1]Mark Sanchez > Stafford[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Max Hall > Stafford[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Riley Skinner > Stafford[/SIZE]

I'll give you Chase Daniel and maybe Tebow as I think they are about the same. Tebow is a better runner, Stafford is much better in the pocket. Sanchez has potential but to say he is better than Stafford is a reach. The rest of them I disagree. Especially Riley Skinner who just lost to Navy and their team had 6 turnovers.

 

[GTKyle]

What has Stafford done to deserve the praise of even being a top 20 QB? His numbers look like Reggie Ball's through two seasons.

 

[BarrelORum]

What has Stafford done to deserve the praise of even being a top 20 QB? His numbers look like Reggie Ball's through two seasons.

I don't recall Reggie leading a one loss team to #3 in the polls, an outside shot at a NC contender, or a BCS bowlgame. Then again, I stayed pretty drunk during those 4 years.

 

[GTCrew]

Kyle,

I don't think you recall very well. Stafford had an efficiency rating about 128 last year. He threw 19 tds and had 10 ints. His team was 11-2 IIRC.

This year he has 7 tds 1 int and a 144 efficiency.

I don't think that you can ask much more of a drop-back passer with a young OLine against a decent schedule.

I do not recall Ball ever being above 100 or having a TD/INT ratio far off of 1:1.

P.S. Florida has at best three decent skill players Percy Harvin and Tebow are awesome but man the dropoff is bad after that (from what I saw against Ole Miss)

P.P.S. If you include TEs (which i do not) then UGA falls badly because they have near zero due to injuries. This is a huge deal because TE is a big weapon in their O.

 

[GTKyle]

Kyle,

I don't think you recall very well. Stafford had an efficiency rating about 128 last year. He threw 19 tds and had 10 ints. His team was 11-2 IIRC.

This year he has 7 tds 1 int and a 144 efficiency.

I don't think that you can ask much more of a drop-back passer with a young OLine against a decent schedule.

I do not recall Ball ever being above 100 or having a TD/INT ratio far off of 1:1.

P.S. Florida has at best three decent skill players Percy Harvin and Tebow are awesome but man the dropoff is bad after that (from what I saw against Ole Miss)

P.P.S. If you include TEs (which i do not) then UGA falls badly because they have near zero due to injuries. This is a huge deal because TE is a big weapon in their O.

Stafford is #36 in terms of efficiency.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=pass&sort=rat&season=2&year=2008&group=80

 

[beej67]

I'll give you Chase Daniel and maybe Tebow as I think they are about the same. Tebow is a better runner, Stafford is much better in the pocket. Sanchez has potential but to say he is better than Stafford is a reach. The rest of them I disagree. Especially Riley Skinner who just lost to Navy and their team had 6 turnovers.

You're nutty. Stafford's numbers through two years were worse than Reggie Ball's were through the same time period.

The only reason anyone gives Stafford any credit is because he was "Five Star Blue Chip" out of high school. He's quite simply not a great QB. He's good, not great. I'd soooo much rather have Skinner.

 

[BuzzMD]

Probably a half dozen. Stafford is barely a top ten QB.

Don't take that away from him - he probably is top ten, and that's nothing to scoff at - but barely eeking top ten when your team is supposed to be in title contention isn't going to cut it, unless all the other areas of the team are much better, which they're not.

Oh lets see.

Chase Daniel >>> Stafford
Colt McCoy > Stafford
Tebow > Stafford
[SIZE=-1]Mark Sanchez > Stafford[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Max Hall > Stafford[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Riley Skinner > Stafford[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Off the top of my head, I would rather have any of those guys as my starting QB instead of Stafford. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]I'm unsold on any Big 10 QBs so far this year.[/SIZE]

Beej, I agree that these players mentioned above are better at running their gameplans at their colleges compared to Stafford, but I would argue that none on your list are a better QB prospect for the next level than Stafford. Bradford at Oklahoma (why not put him on your list, btw) may be close to Stafford, but most draft gurus (McShay, Kiper) would put Stafford as the best QB prospect. Now this is suspect, as before Leinart was supposedly vastly superior to Cutler, Manning and Leaf were supposedly a coin flip in quality, etc -- but there is some truth to these ratings.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3596720

 

[JacketDan]

Beej, I agree that these players mentioned above are better at running their gameplans at their colleges compared to Stafford, but I would argue that none on your list are a better QB prospect for the next level than Stafford. Bradford at Oklahoma (why not put him on your list, btw) may be close to Stafford, but most draft gurus (McShay, Kiper) would put Stafford as the best QB prospect. Now this is suspect, as before Leinart was supposedly vastly superior to Cutler, Manning and Leaf were supposedly a coin flip in quality, etc -- but there is some truth to these ratings.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3596720

At the next level Stafford has at least 3 more INT's in that game, if he doesn't improve his decision making. The guy has spent three years throwing into double and triple coverage. I don't care how pretty the spiral is that is a problem.

 

[beej67]

Beej, I agree that these players mentioned above are better at running their gameplans at their colleges compared to Stafford, but I would argue that none on your list are a better QB prospect for the next level than Stafford. Bradford at Oklahoma (why not put him on your list, btw) may be close to Stafford, but most draft gurus (McShay, Kiper) would put Stafford as the best QB prospect. Now this is suspect, as before Leinart was supposedly vastly superior to Cutler, Manning and Leaf were supposedly a coin flip in quality, etc -- but there is some truth to these ratings.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3596720

I didn't put the Oklahoma guy on there because I haven't seen him play yet. Don't really know a lot about him.

Stafford throws into double coverage. He's done it since he was a freshman. He's Chris Rix with better periphery talent. That's all he is, and all he ever will be. Dude can't see the field.

The Bama radio color guys were having a field day with it. "I don't know what Stafford was seeing there, we had 3 guys on that receiver and he threw it right to us. He had a guy open in the flats and totally missed him."

 

[BarrelORum]

You're nutty. Stafford's numbers through two years were worse than Reggie Ball's were through the same time period.

Prove it.

 

[BarrelORum]

Reggie Ball stats:
http://georgiatech.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=394

Matthew Stafford's stats:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=183518

Coupla tidbits:
Reggie had a 102 and 109 passer rating his frosh and soph years. He had 26 TD's and 29 INTS.
He threw the ball 680 times for 50% completion rate.
He also had Calvin Johnson on the team his sophmore year, not to mention his atrocious Junior year where he had a 99% passer rating and his semi productive Senior year.

Stafford had a 109 and 128 passer rating his frosh and soph years.
He had 26 TD's and 13 INTs with 13 of those happening his freshman year. He completed 54% of his passes. He also had Mohammed Mossaquoi as his only decent receiver last season.

Bigger yet, Stafford led a team to an 12-1 mark last season as a sophmore. With a freshman Runningback. He had a lot less tools than Reggie did in his backfield.

But don't go looking at their Junior years, which happen to be the year we are talking about. Stafford's got 7 Tds and one pick. Don't even bring up Reggie's Junior year unless you want to talk about 47% completion rates.

 

[GBurdell]

Someone in another thread said something about Georgia that made me realize how perfect Alabama's thrashing of Georgia truly was.

The comment was that 'in spite of Saturday night, this is a truly exceptional Georgia team', which is something that I disagree with and strongly so. There's no doubting that they have a good team. They will probably compete against Florida, Tennessee, Auburn and LSU. So will Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Vanderbilt. But exceptional teams don't need to question week in and week out whether they'll be able to play this game like they did against (_Insert Florida, Auburn or Arizona State Here_) or if they'll have to worry about laying an egg.

I understand that teams sometimes lose games that they shouldn't (and of late, more frequently), but this UGAg-Bama game fits in with the USC-OSU thrashing, not the subsequent game where the other OSU upset USC.

An exceptional team doesn't play a home, inter-top-10 conference game like they just woke up from a week-long bender. The perfection in Alabama's win is that they took the Blackout concept to midfield of Sanford Stadium and shot it square between the eyes. The gimmicks are over. Endzone dances and fashion secrets may give you the momentum for a late season run over mostly mediocre teams (a la last season. You want to tell me that we were good enough last year to compete with/nearly beat the team that should have played in the National Title game?) but it's not going to work for a full season and let you win a national championship the right way.

Stafford is a joke. Knowshon is a talent, but nowhere near as invincible and unstoppable as everyone has painted him to be. The team has no discipline whatsoever and they'll end the season where they are now, leading the country in penalties and personal fouls. UGA VII really is an ugly, ugly dog.

You cannot discard what happened against Alabama for Georgia. It wasn't a misreading of the script, it was the curtain being pulled back.

Georgia wasn't caught with their pants down - they were never wearing any to begin with.

I feel like UGAg's ranking and status is due the media hype machine. Both internal (UGAg media relations) and external (ESPN/WSB/790TheCrap). Richt has bought into all the accolades and now thinks that he can pull endzone stunts and deliver smug/arrogent comments afterwards and to reporters.

 

[stinger78]

How do you exclude Lil Joe from that example?

Yes, I only noticed that after posting. VERY bad omission.

Those on this board stating that Stafford is a bad QB are either severely biased, or just don't know football. Stafford has one of the best arms I've seen, and he has grown tremendously over the past 2 years. He has weapons to throw to now, and he is doing it well. Give credit where credit is due. Staffy is playing well, for the most part.

I think he'll go early, because his $$ after his SR season won't be any better. He'll take the contract and go to the NFL, but never pan out. I just don't see him as an effective NFL QB.