TStan’s head still up his ass

moochie said:
gtrower, you channeled my thinking exactly. not that anyone remembers anything i posted, but i called the ditch a coordinator strategy 8 weeks ago, so that cgc could garner another year or two. it was the only way to get a year 4. you could see it coming down main street. my warning then is EXACTLY what my warning is now..and i'm not sure anyone is thinking this through...who is going to come in as OC (or DC) for this öööö show? and worse that that..

what if the worst happens and we win 5 or 6 games next year in this week division? this damned thing may go one more year because well....it's improvement isn't it? he'll use the "CPJ set us back light years and after 4 years we're finally .500, you have to give me one more year! just watch, year five will be 8 wins, just bring me back." (of course we know how that ends, with 3-4 wins in year 5 and he's gone midyear)

i'm with most of you, i wanted to believe but knew better. but know i have never seen less understanding of the game at the coaching level, less improvement in position players in which he inherited moderate to good talent (secondary, as an example) or in game management or poise or substitutions or play calling or sideline management. all the cgc dudes will point at the coordinators, but a fish smelling this bad stinks from the head down.

also note i'm the guy who's always critical of the fan base that wants a guy out after two or three years. look at any strong program and you'll see a coach who was given time to develop his team. but the lack of improvement in the coaching staff and on the sideline is enough evidence for me to cry uncle early. but let's enjoy 2022, it should be fun. and i'll be rooting for us, even through the pain.

good post gtrower...
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I really don’t think our clown coach will win more than 2 games next year. Western Carolina and Duke. And I reserve the right to change my Duke pick after they pick their head coach.
 
WracerX said:
It was sold as a 5 year plan from the beginning. Year 3 was the year to evaluate the coordinators. They performed much worse than expected.

New coordinators plus two years is hear now unless we have another meltdown year.

This was absolutely what having a recruiter/ceo coach means.
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It’s sad and frustrating that it’s gotten so bad so quickly. Theoretically, I liked a lot of what Collins was selling when he came in - recruiting, marketing/branding/selling the program to more fans, applying technology and sports science, strength & conditioning, connecting with our history and alumni. All that seems on target with what we needed and with what our brand should be.

I don’t know enough to comment on the recruiting - I guess it’s improved. The marketing stuff might have been better served to wait a year or two until we (theoretically) didn’t suck; I don’t know if the sloganeering was inherently lame or if the lack of success made it seem that way. The technology stuff seems to have had little impact and seems like it’s being applied in a very shallow way (look how far and fast they run!). We look better getting off the bus, but we don’t seem much stronger and we seem slower, so the S&C benefit is questionable. Some of the alumni coaches have been busts (Burton, Key) or mostly invisible (Coleman).

Combine that with negative impact on traditions (meddling with the Wreck and Buzz), apparently lacking in What’s Actually Important Now (coaching and scheming, toughness, winning games), and being handcuffed by contract terms and it seems like, for all the good ideas, this whole era is going to go down as a poorly implemented and poorly executed disaster.

JRjr
 
vapspwi said:
It’s sad and frustrating that it’s gotten so bad so quickly. Theoretically, I liked a lot of what Collins was selling when he came in - recruiting, marketing/branding/selling the program to more fans, applying technology and sports science, strength & conditioning, connecting with our history and alumni. All that seems on target with what we needed and with what our brand should be.

I don’t know enough to comment on the recruiting - I guess it’s improved. The marketing stuff might have been better served to wait a year or two until we (theoretically) didn’t suck; I don’t know if the sloganeering was inherently lame or if the lack of success made it seem that way. The technology stuff seems to have had little impact and seems like it’s being applied in a very shallow way (look how far and fast they run!). We look better getting off the bus, but we don’t seem much stronger and we seem slower, so the S&C benefit is questionable. Some of the alumni coaches have been busts (Burton, Key) or mostly invisible (Coleman).

Combine that with negative impact on traditions (meddling with the Wreck and Buzz), apparently lacking in What’s Actually Important Now (coaching and scheming, toughness, winning games), and being handcuffed by contract terms and it seems like, for all the good ideas, this whole era is going to go down as a poorly implemented and poorly executed disaster.

JRjr
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Not directly football related items.

Things done well:
Recruiting has ticked up. Marketing has been done well. We do seem stronger.
Things done well until year 3:
Alumni and money donors seemed more engaged.
Things done poorly:
We do seem slower in the defensive backfield, but I wonder if that is more scheme and player positioning. Jacking up traditions, without tangible benefits of the new ‘traditions’. Temple did not retain ’moneydown’ after CGC left. That is telling.
Trashing the previous regime. This played well to many who hated the option, but those people were already on board with the new staff. It only hardened a subset of fans to never support this staff short of ACC titles and playoff berths. That is not a good plan when you want to build fan support.

The post loss pressers have been a disaster. Blaming the fans is always a terrible idea. Keep any us against the world talk in the locker room. Publicly, take all the heat even if the players did screw up.
 
WracerX said:
It was sold as a 5 year plan from the beginning. Year 3 was the year to evaluate the coordinators. They performed much worse than expected.

New coordinators plus two years is hear now unless we have another meltdown year.

This was absolutely what having a recruiter/ceo coach means.
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Was it? I don't remember 5 year plan being mentioned anywhere.
 
18in32 said:
The idea that your view is the ‘critical thinking’ view, and other views are dumb or lazy or uncritical, doesn’t reflect well on you.

Reasonable minds can disagree about how to handle this bad situation. (Unreasonable minds can disagree too.)
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I never called anyone “dumb” or “lazy” and I never said disagreeing with my position is inherently wrong.

The positions I’m seeing on this board are emotional, not thought based. People want CGC fired and are assuming that anyone with a different opinion is doing so because of a lack of character (e.g. they’re arrogant, they’re stupid, “head up their ass,” etc). You can’t debate people taking emotional positions.

That was my point.
 
BainbridgeJacket said:
Was it? I don't remember 5 year plan being mentioned anywhere.
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The 7 year contract, instead of the 5 year contract meant the period of performance was going to start year 3. At that point, we should have been back at our 2017/18 level.

That puts up at hovering around 6 wins, even in the ACC, and not competitive with top 10 teams. So far, we nailed the third category.

Instead, we have 3 wins, embarrassing losses, and a quarter of our games where we couldn’t score a TD. So the AD has said, ‘I see what you have done and you need a lot of help.’
 
gtphd said:
I never called anyone “dumb” or “lazy” and I never said disagreeing with my position is inherently wrong.

The positions I’m seeing on this board are emotional, not thought based. People want CGC fired and are assuming that anyone with a different opinion is doing so because of a lack of character (e.g. they’re arrogant, they’re stupid, “head up their ass,” etc). You can’t debate people taking emotional positions.

That was my point.
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A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. [attributed to Winston Churchill]
 
gtphd said:
I never called anyone “dumb” or “lazy” and I never said disagreeing with my position is inherently wrong.

The positions I’m seeing on this board are emotional, not thought based. People want CGC fired and are assuming that anyone with a different opinion is doing so because of a lack of character (e.g. they’re arrogant, they’re stupid, “head up their ass,” etc). You can’t debate people taking emotional positions.

That was my point.
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Ironic reply, you should have added ‘they’re emotional’ to your list of lack of character.

People want CGC fired based on the results they saw on the field. You don’t want him fired for financial reasons as far as I can tell. Neither is emotional and both are debatable.
 
gtphd said:
I never called anyone “dumb” or “lazy” and I never said disagreeing with my position is inherently wrong.

The positions I’m seeing on this board are emotional, not thought based. People want CGC fired and are assuming that anyone with a different opinion is doing so because of a lack of character (e.g. they’re arrogant, they’re stupid, “head up their ass,” etc). You can’t debate people taking emotional positions.

That was my point.
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My position that he has his head up his ass is based on critical thought. Critically thinking, there is no reason to keep GC another year besides money, and that doesn’t seem to be the issue.

TStan’s email says patience is the key. Given enough time, he’ll be successful. TStan gave our basketball program as an example. I find that statement incredible for multiple reasons, including:
1) Football and basketball are not the same
2) There is virtually nothing on the field that you can look at and say we’ve improved except for onsides kicks.
3) Players, including our best recruit, have entered the transfer portal.
4) Win/loss record, including who we’ve lost to and how we’ve lost.

We suck and we’re digging ourselves a deeper hole. It’s just that simple.
 
BrentwoodJacket said:
Collins seems to market to everyone but the supporters of Georgia Tech football. He seems to view us as an uniformed distraction to the program. TStan seems fine with this approach.
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I don't necessarily disagree with this assessment. That being said, I think Collins assumes that if he was winning the true fans wouldn't care what he was doing on the marketing side to get players and casual fans engaged. I think his thinking is correct in that winning cures all ills, unfortunately GT isn't winning.
 
BainbridgeJacket said:
A fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. [attributed to Winston Churchill]
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I fanatically want him fired and I don’t want to change the subject until there’s no hope his firing won’t take place. My fanaticism on this issue came from critical thought after I put my emotional optimism aside.
 
gtphd said:
I never called anyone “dumb” or “lazy” and I never said disagreeing with my position is inherently wrong.

The positions I’m seeing on this board are emotional, not thought based. People want CGC fired and are assuming that anyone with a different opinion is doing so because of a lack of character (e.g. they’re arrogant, they’re stupid, “head up their ass,” etc). You can’t debate people taking emotional positions.

That was my point.
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People are certainly emotional around here – though arguably we need more emotion around GT football, not less.

No more than I think shorter supply chains are inherently better than longer ones, or vice versa, I don't think any one position vis-a-vis firing CGC and dealing with his buyout is "obviously" or "clearly" or "if you're thinking critically" better than another one.

Personally I would fire him. But the idea that we should wait a year to save money, while I think it is wrong, is based in reasonable assumptions and predictions, too.
 
WracerX said:
Ironic reply, you should have added ‘they’re emotional’ to your list of lack of character.
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My comment referred to the position, not the person. That's a big difference.

WracerX said:
People want CGC fired based on the results they saw on the field. You don’t want him fired for financial reasons as far as I can tell. Neither is emotional and both are debatable.
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I haven't necessarily expressed a position. The post you cited is why I think TStan made the decision he did. It's logical and probably something I would have done in his place. I'm not necessarily excited about it, but I understand.

My position on CGC's firing depends entirely on who would replace him. I want to win and I don't think CGC will win. However, I'd rather keep him another year and fire him in 2022 then pick up the football equivalent of Brian Gregory who sticks around 3 years and has to be bought out in 2024. The problem with this position is that I can't say, "yeah, fire him" or "no, keep him" because I don't know who would accept the job.
 
We open next year with:
1) Clemson
2) Western Carolina
3) Ole Miss
4) UCF

Then, we play in some order:
5) FSU
6) Miami
7) VT
8) Pitt
9) Duke
10) UVa
11) UNC

And then:
12) Uga

At what point are our stands going to be empty? Critically thinking, when are the wheels going to be completely off? If I’m AD, I’m looking at that schedule and saying there’s gonna be a lynch mob at my door by week 4.

GC is a dead man walking. And TStan is going to go down with him unless he changes course immediately.
 
gtphd said:
My comment referred to the position, not the person. That's a big difference.



I haven't necessarily expressed a position. The post you cited is why I think TStan made the decision he did. It's logical and probably something I would have done in his place. I'm not necessarily excited about it, but I understand.

My position on CGC's firing depends entirely on who would replace him. I want to win and I don't think CGC will win. However, I'd rather keep him another year and fire him in 2022 then pick up the football equivalent of Brian Gregory who sticks around 3 years and has to be bought out in 2024. The problem with this position is that I can't say, "yeah, fire him" or "no, keep him" because I don't know who would accept the job.
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Well, I do agree with you on one thing: it’s always a good idea to know who you’re going to replace him with before you fire him.
 
The problem is Collins hubris. Once he got the megabucks, he thought he was the smartest guy in the room even when the losses were piling up. Hence the lack of any changes or course corrections.
 
cincyjacket said:
The problem is Collins hubris. Once he got the megabucks, he thought he was the smartest guy in the room even when the losses were piling up. Hence the lack of any changes or course corrections.
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Definitely one of the problems. Seems maybe the same for TStan
 
BuzzLaw said:
Definitely one of the problems. Seems maybe the same for TStan
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Doesn't TDope "owe" GT for payment of his debt issue with Oregon St. or were those details reworked into whatever contract he had at the time?
 
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