UNC should lose its accreditation

cyptomcat

cyptomcat

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Says at least one university president:

http://chronicle.com/blogs/conversation/2014/10/24/unc-chapel-hill-should-lose-accreditation/

Reducing the number of athletic scholarships at Chapel Hill, or vacating wins, or banning teams from postseason competition, is in each case a punishment wholly unsuitable to the crime. The crime involves fundamental academic integrity. The response, regardless of the visibility or reputation or wealth of the institution, should be to suspend accredited status until there is evidence that an appropriate level of integrity is both culturally and structurally in place.

Anything less would be dismissive of the many institutions whose transcripts actually have meaning.

Brian C. Rosenberg is the president oföMacalester College.
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The most common argument against this seems to be "why should other departments get punished?"

Because schools are accredited as a whole. If the school cannot ensure that all of its departments are on the up-and-up via cross-departmental review, they do not deserve to be accredited. Yes, the whole school and the whole athletic association deserves to be punished. If they cannot self-regulate, they cannot be trusted to grant degrees.
 
Ridiculous. It's not like UNC gave these kids nuclear launch codes. This was done in the name of money through the athletics department. Hit 'em where it hurts - the wallet. You don't ruin a great school because a couple of idiots cheated the system.
 
originalwombat said:
Ridiculous. It's not like UNC gave these kids nuclear launch codes. This was done in the name of money through the athletics department. Hit 'em where it hurts - the wallet. You don't ruin a great school because a couple of idiots cheated the system.
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"great school"

lol
 
Last I checked, the market still places a lot of value in a degree from UNC. Whether you do or not is irrelevant.
 
They probably should but is UNC "too big to fail"? It would be a pretty big deal to pull the creds for a state flagship university.
 
originalwombat said:
Last I checked, the market still places a lot of value in a degree from UNC. Whether you do or not is irrelevant.
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It's a bit early to tell what the market will do with a UNC degree from here.

The President's underlying point, and I think there's some validity to it: how are we to know this crap was occurring only within the AFA department? Why should anyone accept the Biology, Physics, or Business departments weren't also pulling these stunts?
 
Not much of a great school if they can't even verify their own classes.

Also, get ready for a huge market correction. Plus, the only folks I know that place a real high value on UNC degrees are snot-nosed, triangle-area UNC grads.

Tech fans need to understand that a total hammer-down on UNC followed by real academic standards changes within the NCAA is a positive thing for Tech. Tech is fighting a losing battle when it comes to staying competitive in D1 sports, especially football. We can either change and let lower-academic-quality student-athletes in, or force everyone else to play by our rules.

If anything, we should be bleating the horn that this is unacceptable, and that major structural changes need to be made.

Edit: Ok, so what happens if UNC DOESN'T face major academic and athletic punishments? College athletics is going to have to make a decision here. Either the NCAA and the participating universities are serious about academics, or it's just a front for a minor league sports.
 
EffinDane said:
Not much of a great school if they can't even verify their own classes.

Also, get ready for a huge market correction. Plus, the only folks I know that place a real high value on UNC degrees are snot-nosed, triangle-area UNC grads.

Tech fans need to understand that a total hammer-down on UNC followed by real academic standards changes within the NCAA is a positive thing for Tech. Tech is fighting a losing battle when it comes to staying competitive in D1 sports, especially football. We can either change and let lower-academic-quality student-athletes in, or force everyone else to play by our rules.

If anything, we should be bleating the horn that this is unacceptable, and that major structural changes need to be made.

Edit: Ok, so what happens if UNC DOESN'T face major academic and athletic punishments? College athletics is going to have to make a decision here. Either the NCAA and the participating universities are serious about academics, or it's just a front for a minor league sports.
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I agree. I don't think anything will come of this favorable to Tech based on how the money currently flows, but it will at least force the issue if enough people complain about it.
 
originalwombat said:
Ridiculous. It's not like UNC gave these kids nuclear launch codes. This was done in the name of money through the athletics department. Hit 'em where it hurts - the wallet. You don't ruin a great school because a couple of idiots cheated the system.
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How many idiots need to be involved before this should become ruinous?
 
originalwombat said:
Last I checked, the market still places a lot of value in a degree from UNC. Whether you do or not is irrelevant.
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Not if I'm doing the hiring.

There were some fratboys who got AFAM minors by accident while loading up on the fake classes. Totally unrelated to athletics.

They need to lose their accreditation, and the market needs to treat UNC diplomas like what they are, which is basically worthless.
 
Auburn went on probation because SACS didn't know who was running the school, the trustees or the school president. UNC has reached at least that level if professor s are asking the AA what grades to give.
 
originalwombat said:
Last I checked, the market still places a lot of value in a degree from UNC. Whether you do or not is irrelevant.
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It's pretty relevant if he is in a position to hire people.

This isn't going to totally destroy the value of a UNC degree, or even majorly diminish it, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think it will have an impact even if there are no academic sanctions.

Degree value is all about image and reputation. The first thing everyone will think of now when they see a UNC degree is of this scandal. That's not the frame of mind you want people to start off in when they're evaluating you.
 
The Auburn case also shows why SACS will probably not do much. The accreditation standards are an odd mix of two different things.

1. That there is independence of the faculty.
2. That the school's program have necessary rigor for the degree's required competency.

The standards focus more on #1, mainly due to the long tradition of academic independence. In Auburn's case, Crowder essentially instigated an attempted coup over the heads of the president and the AD. There can be more serious issues with such influence, such as making sure the son of a friend of theirs graduates or trying to get a professor fired for making research they don't like.

But the standards also say the university is supposed to monitor curricula and the strength of classes. The highest knowledge of the classes could have gone was the associate dean in the college of arts and sciences. She knew that Nyang'oro had a logistically impossible number of independent study students, if each student actually received significant guidance and monitoring from the faculty member. In light of the Auburn paper class story, the associate dean told Nyang'oro to reduce the number of students and "get Crowder under control." So the associate dean had some knowledge that a non-faculty member had too much involvement, but did nothing.

But I don't know what SACS could do about it. Some sort of double-secret probation, I guess, but knowledge didn't go up to the President or Board level.
 
boozinbuzz said:
They probably should but is UNC "too big to fail"? It would be a pretty big deal to pull the creds for a state flagship university.
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Correct.

If this had been done to UGAG, as it so richly deserved, Athens would be just one big Community college.

Well, come to think of it, it really is that anyway.

OK. Nevermind.
 
I don't care to destroy UNC as a school. I kinda think that Tech grads put too much stock into the value of a degree since we were ass raped by the institute to be awarded a Tech degree. So I understand the butthurt. I do. But in real world, unless you're hiring for an engineering position, networking, being able to demonstrate problem solving skills and articulation hold just as much value if not more for certain positions. It's not like they teach you how to do your job in college. They do teach us at tech how to take it up the ass and ask for more which I guess is a highly sought after quality.
For entry level positions, it's a hit or miss with whom you hire. Even if a person has a degree from Tech, doesn't necessarily mean that they're more qualified or have better work ethics than someone with a degree from another school. If they're from Tech though, at least you will have someone to complain about Tech football with.
It may help to get out of the elitist mindset.

Was that sacrilegious enough? :biggrin:
 
To me the problem seems too localized to one department to sanction the whole university. I don't know much about accreditation though.

Regardless of what happens, this does hurt the reputation of UNC, and AFAM degrees are severely tainted. Just got to hope your prospective employer hasn't heard of the scandal.
 
What does an afam major do for a job? Are there any famous people with UNC afam degrees?
 
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