We should be 5-0.

The M-Train said:
Death by a thousand tiny cuts in the UT game and this game.

UT game, we win if:
-2 point conversion good (1)
-Either FG made (2, 3)
-Either fumble doesn't happen (4, 5)
-JJ Green doesn't commit an illegal block away from the ball on a 30 yard gain, causing us to have to throw on third down to... (6)
-Juene doesn't drop a 3rd down catch (lead to 1st FG) (7)
-Jordan hits a wide open Qua Searcy for a TD (8)

And that's just off the top of my head

This game, we win if:
-Ball is batted away on 4th and 10 (1)
-Stewart catches 3rd down pass (2)
-Searcy doesn't slip on third down, causing incompletion (3)
-Marshall doesn't throw it away on 3rd and 17 when he has two men behind all Miami defenders for a TD (4)
-Marshall doesn't throw it away on 3rd and goal when he has two men wide open in the endzone (5)
-Marshall throws the ball in front of Searcy (instead of behind) on 4th and 6, Searcy able to make first down - maybe we score, maybe we don't, but Miami doesn't have enough time to drive down and score with :12 left in first half (6)

Make any one of those plays (or even two) and we win easily in both games.

Over half of the time, CPJ doesn't win close games. We are not a clutch team. We get tight in end-of-game situations and lose. I don't know how we fix it but it sucks to watch as a fan. You just know we'll find a way to lose instead of stepping on the other team's throat and finishing the game.
Click to expand...

I agree with your points and share the pain, but your list of issues above are not coaching issues. They are missed plays by players. Missed plays by players who are frankly in position to make plays to win.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
who knows. All I know is that, in close games, CPJ is a liability as often as not.
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Games decided by 7 points or less:
Source: https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...ootball-coaches-in-close-games-entering-2016/
Cliff Notes: CPJ mediocre, as suggested above.

SEC Coach Career Current School
Jim McElwain, Florida 13-4 (.765) 5-1 (.833)
Gus Malzahn, Auburn 15-7 (.682) 12-7 (.632)
Les Miles, LSU 46-25 (.648) 39-18 (.684)
Dan Mullen, Mississippi State 16-9 (.640) 16-9 (.640)
Derek Mason, Vanderbilt 5-3 (.625) 5-3 (.625)
Nick Saban, Alabama 42-28-1 (.599) 17-14 (.548)
Kevin Sumlin, Texas A&M 21-15 (.583) 11-8 (.579)
Hugh Freeze, Ole Miss 13-11 (.542) 7-9 (.438)
Butch Jones, Tennessee 21-21 (.500) 6-9 (.400)
Bret Bielema, Arkansas 24-25 (.490) 3-10 (.231)
Will Muschamp, South Carolina 8-10 (.444) New school
Mark Stoops, Kentucky 5-7 (.417) 5-7 (.417)

Big Ten Coach Career Current School
Urban Meyer, Ohio State 34-13 (.723) 13-2 (.867)
Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern 34-21 (.618) 34-21 (.618)
Mark Dantonio, Michigan State 33-22 (.600) 27-20 (.574)
Tracy Claeys, Minnesota 3-2 (.600) 3-2 (.600)
Jim Harbaugh, Michigan 18-15 (.545) 2-2 (.500)
Mike Riley, Nebraska 38-35 (.521) 3-6 (.333)
James Franklin, Penn State 13-13 (.500) 6-6 (.500)
Kirk Ferentz, Iowa 46-51 (.474) 41-45 (.477)
Paul Chryst, Wisconsin 8-12 (.400) 3-2 (.600)
Darrell Hazell, Purdue 6-12 (.333) 1-7 (.125)
Kevin Wilson, Indiana 7-18 (.280) 7-18 (.280)

ACC Coach Career Current School
Dave Doeren, NC State 13-5 (.722) 4-2 (.667)
Jimbo Fisher, Florida State 16-7 (.696) 16-7 (.696)
Dino Babers, Syracuse 10-5 (.667) New coach
Pat Narduzzi, Pittsburgh 5-3 (.625) 5-3 (.625)
Mark Richt, Miami 47-30 (.610) New coach
Bobby Petrino, Louisville 27-19 (.587) 12-10 (.545)
Bronco Mendenhall, Virginia 28-20 (.583) New coach
Dabo Swinney, Clemson 16-12 (.571) 16-12 (.571)
Paul Johnson, Georgia Tech 44-39 (.530) 20-23 (.465)
David Cutcliffe, Duke 37-35 (.514) 19-19 (.500)
Larry Fedora, North Carolina 21-23 (.477) 12-9 (.571)
Dave Clawson, Wake Forest 28-34 (.452) 4-6 (.400)
Justin Fuente, Virginia Tech 6-9 (.400) New coach
Steve Addazio, Boston College 8-13 (.381) 6-11 (.353)

Big 12 Coach Career Current School
Gary Patterson, TCU 43-25 (.632) 43-25 (.632)
Mike Gundy, Oklahoma State 23-14 (.622) 23-14 (.622)
Bob Stoops, Oklahoma 33-22 (.600) 33-22 (.600)
Matt Campbell, Iowa State 13-9 (.591) New coach
Charlie Strong, Texas 14-10 (.583) 3-5 (.375)
Bill Snyder, Kansas State 50-38-1 (.567) 50-38-1 (.567)
Dana Holgorsen, West Virginia 12-10 (.545) 12-10 (.545)
Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech 5-5 (.500) 5-5 (.500)
Jim Grobe, Baylor 49-55-1 (.471) New coach
David Beaty, Kansas 0-2 (.000) 0-2 (.000)

Pac-12 Coach Career Current School
Clay Helton, USC 3-1 (.750) 3-1 (.750)
Jim Mora, UCLA 15-6 (.714) 15-6 (.714)
Kyle Whittingham, Utah 34-19 (.642) 34-19 (.642)
David Shaw, Stanford 17-10 (.630) 17-10 (.630)
Todd Graham, Arizona State 26-21 (.553) 7-8 (.467)
Chris Petersen, Washington 17-14 (.548) 3-6 (.333)
Mike Leach, Washington State 31-26 (.544) 12-11 (.522)
Rich Rodriguez, Arizona 44-39-2 (.529) 13-10 (.565)
Sonny Dykes, Cal 16-15 (.516) 8-7 (.533)
Mark Helfrich, Oregon 5-5 (.500) 5-5 (.500)
Gary Andersen, Oregon State 14-18 (.438) 0-1 (.000)
Mike MacIntyre, Colorado 10-20 (.333) 3-11 (.214)
 
Dirty Jacket said:
Games decided by 7 points or less:
Source: https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...ootball-coaches-in-close-games-entering-2016/
Cliff Notes: CPJ mediocre, as suggested above.

SEC Coach Career Current School
Jim McElwain, Florida 13-4 (.765) 5-1 (.833)
Gus Malzahn, Auburn 15-7 (.682) 12-7 (.632)
Les Miles, LSU 46-25 (.648) 39-18 (.684)
Dan Mullen, Mississippi State 16-9 (.640) 16-9 (.640)
Derek Mason, Vanderbilt 5-3 (.625) 5-3 (.625)
Nick Saban, Alabama 42-28-1 (.599) 17-14 (.548)
Kevin Sumlin, Texas A&M 21-15 (.583) 11-8 (.579)
Hugh Freeze, Ole Miss 13-11 (.542) 7-9 (.438)
Butch Jones, Tennessee 21-21 (.500) 6-9 (.400)
Bret Bielema, Arkansas 24-25 (.490) 3-10 (.231)
Will Muschamp, South Carolina 8-10 (.444) New school
Mark Stoops, Kentucky 5-7 (.417) 5-7 (.417)

Big Ten Coach Career Current School
Urban Meyer, Ohio State 34-13 (.723) 13-2 (.867)
Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern 34-21 (.618) 34-21 (.618)
Mark Dantonio, Michigan State 33-22 (.600) 27-20 (.574)
Tracy Claeys, Minnesota 3-2 (.600) 3-2 (.600)
Jim Harbaugh, Michigan 18-15 (.545) 2-2 (.500)
Mike Riley, Nebraska 38-35 (.521) 3-6 (.333)
James Franklin, Penn State 13-13 (.500) 6-6 (.500)
Kirk Ferentz, Iowa 46-51 (.474) 41-45 (.477)
Paul Chryst, Wisconsin 8-12 (.400) 3-2 (.600)
Darrell Hazell, Purdue 6-12 (.333) 1-7 (.125)
Kevin Wilson, Indiana 7-18 (.280) 7-18 (.280)

ACC Coach Career Current School
Dave Doeren, NC State 13-5 (.722) 4-2 (.667)
Jimbo Fisher, Florida State 16-7 (.696) 16-7 (.696)
Dino Babers, Syracuse 10-5 (.667) New coach
Pat Narduzzi, Pittsburgh 5-3 (.625) 5-3 (.625)
Mark Richt, Miami 47-30 (.610) New coach
Bobby Petrino, Louisville 27-19 (.587) 12-10 (.545)
Bronco Mendenhall, Virginia 28-20 (.583) New coach
Dabo Swinney, Clemson 16-12 (.571) 16-12 (.571)
Paul Johnson, Georgia Tech 44-39 (.530) 20-23 (.465)
David Cutcliffe, Duke 37-35 (.514) 19-19 (.500)
Larry Fedora, North Carolina 21-23 (.477) 12-9 (.571)
Dave Clawson, Wake Forest 28-34 (.452) 4-6 (.400)
Justin Fuente, Virginia Tech 6-9 (.400) New coach
Steve Addazio, Boston College 8-13 (.381) 6-11 (.353)

Big 12 Coach Career Current School
Gary Patterson, TCU 43-25 (.632) 43-25 (.632)
Mike Gundy, Oklahoma State 23-14 (.622) 23-14 (.622)
Bob Stoops, Oklahoma 33-22 (.600) 33-22 (.600)
Matt Campbell, Iowa State 13-9 (.591) New coach
Charlie Strong, Texas 14-10 (.583) 3-5 (.375)
Bill Snyder, Kansas State 50-38-1 (.567) 50-38-1 (.567)
Dana Holgorsen, West Virginia 12-10 (.545) 12-10 (.545)
Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech 5-5 (.500) 5-5 (.500)
Jim Grobe, Baylor 49-55-1 (.471) New coach
David Beaty, Kansas 0-2 (.000) 0-2 (.000)

Pac-12 Coach Career Current School
Clay Helton, USC 3-1 (.750) 3-1 (.750)
Jim Mora, UCLA 15-6 (.714) 15-6 (.714)
Kyle Whittingham, Utah 34-19 (.642) 34-19 (.642)
David Shaw, Stanford 17-10 (.630) 17-10 (.630)
Todd Graham, Arizona State 26-21 (.553) 7-8 (.467)
Chris Petersen, Washington 17-14 (.548) 3-6 (.333)
Mike Leach, Washington State 31-26 (.544) 12-11 (.522)
Rich Rodriguez, Arizona 44-39-2 (.529) 13-10 (.565)
Sonny Dykes, Cal 16-15 (.516) 8-7 (.533)
Mark Helfrich, Oregon 5-5 (.500) 5-5 (.500)
Gary Andersen, Oregon State 14-18 (.438) 0-1 (.000)
Mike MacIntyre, Colorado 10-20 (.333) 3-11 (.214)
Click to expand...


20-23 - 0.465.....the very definition of mediocrity.

I don't give a öööö what he did in I-AA ball or Navy. It's irrelevant to what he's done for us, which is 20-23.
 
In the games decided by 7 points or less I see Charlie Stong is similar to Nick Saban, but Nick Saban is lower than Derek Mason and Jim Mora. It’s almost as if this stat is, how do I say this, uncorrelated?
 
Dirty Jacket said:
Games decided by 7 points or less:
Source: https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...ootball-coaches-in-close-games-entering-2016/
Cliff Notes: CPJ mediocre, as suggested above.

SEC Coach Career Current School
Jim McElwain, Florida 13-4 (.765) 5-1 (.833)
Gus Malzahn, Auburn 15-7 (.682) 12-7 (.632)
Les Miles, LSU 46-25 (.648) 39-18 (.684)
Dan Mullen, Mississippi State 16-9 (.640) 16-9 (.640)
Derek Mason, Vanderbilt 5-3 (.625) 5-3 (.625)
Nick Saban, Alabama 42-28-1 (.599) 17-14 (.548)
Kevin Sumlin, Texas A&M 21-15 (.583) 11-8 (.579)
Hugh Freeze, Ole Miss 13-11 (.542) 7-9 (.438)
Butch Jones, Tennessee 21-21 (.500) 6-9 (.400)
Bret Bielema, Arkansas 24-25 (.490) 3-10 (.231)
Will Muschamp, South Carolina 8-10 (.444) New school
Mark Stoops, Kentucky 5-7 (.417) 5-7 (.417)

Big Ten Coach Career Current School
Urban Meyer, Ohio State 34-13 (.723) 13-2 (.867)
Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern 34-21 (.618) 34-21 (.618)
Mark Dantonio, Michigan State 33-22 (.600) 27-20 (.574)
Tracy Claeys, Minnesota 3-2 (.600) 3-2 (.600)
Jim Harbaugh, Michigan 18-15 (.545) 2-2 (.500)
Mike Riley, Nebraska 38-35 (.521) 3-6 (.333)
James Franklin, Penn State 13-13 (.500) 6-6 (.500)
Kirk Ferentz, Iowa 46-51 (.474) 41-45 (.477)
Paul Chryst, Wisconsin 8-12 (.400) 3-2 (.600)
Darrell Hazell, Purdue 6-12 (.333) 1-7 (.125)
Kevin Wilson, Indiana 7-18 (.280) 7-18 (.280)

ACC Coach Career Current School
Dave Doeren, NC State 13-5 (.722) 4-2 (.667)
Jimbo Fisher, Florida State 16-7 (.696) 16-7 (.696)
Dino Babers, Syracuse 10-5 (.667) New coach
Pat Narduzzi, Pittsburgh 5-3 (.625) 5-3 (.625)
Mark Richt, Miami 47-30 (.610) New coach
Bobby Petrino, Louisville 27-19 (.587) 12-10 (.545)
Bronco Mendenhall, Virginia 28-20 (.583) New coach
Dabo Swinney, Clemson 16-12 (.571) 16-12 (.571)
Paul Johnson, Georgia Tech 44-39 (.530) 20-23 (.465)
David Cutcliffe, Duke 37-35 (.514) 19-19 (.500)
Larry Fedora, North Carolina 21-23 (.477) 12-9 (.571)
Dave Clawson, Wake Forest 28-34 (.452) 4-6 (.400)
Justin Fuente, Virginia Tech 6-9 (.400) New coach
Steve Addazio, Boston College 8-13 (.381) 6-11 (.353)

Big 12 Coach Career Current School
Gary Patterson, TCU 43-25 (.632) 43-25 (.632)
Mike Gundy, Oklahoma State 23-14 (.622) 23-14 (.622)
Bob Stoops, Oklahoma 33-22 (.600) 33-22 (.600)
Matt Campbell, Iowa State 13-9 (.591) New coach
Charlie Strong, Texas 14-10 (.583) 3-5 (.375)
Bill Snyder, Kansas State 50-38-1 (.567) 50-38-1 (.567)
Dana Holgorsen, West Virginia 12-10 (.545) 12-10 (.545)
Kliff Kingsbury, Texas Tech 5-5 (.500) 5-5 (.500)
Jim Grobe, Baylor 49-55-1 (.471) New coach
David Beaty, Kansas 0-2 (.000) 0-2 (.000)

Pac-12 Coach Career Current School
Clay Helton, USC 3-1 (.750) 3-1 (.750)
Jim Mora, UCLA 15-6 (.714) 15-6 (.714)
Kyle Whittingham, Utah 34-19 (.642) 34-19 (.642)
David Shaw, Stanford 17-10 (.630) 17-10 (.630)
Todd Graham, Arizona State 26-21 (.553) 7-8 (.467)
Chris Petersen, Washington 17-14 (.548) 3-6 (.333)
Mike Leach, Washington State 31-26 (.544) 12-11 (.522)
Rich Rodriguez, Arizona 44-39-2 (.529) 13-10 (.565)
Sonny Dykes, Cal 16-15 (.516) 8-7 (.533)
Mark Helfrich, Oregon 5-5 (.500) 5-5 (.500)
Gary Andersen, Oregon State 14-18 (.438) 0-1 (.000)
Mike MacIntyre, Colorado 10-20 (.333) 3-11 (.214)
Click to expand...

In short, you can't use this to evaluate coach's end game performance. Coaches with better teams will tend to have better records.

The coaches of Florida, Auburn, LSU are top in the SEC. The coach of USC is top in the Pac-12. The coach of Ohio State is top in the Big 10. All traditional powerhouses. It might only say something when a coach at a second-tier school is ranked near the top.
 
Exceptional athletes tend to make exceptional plays with the game on the line to win the game. That's why teams like GT lose so many tight games. In general we don't have exceptional athletes. It's not some secret lack of clutch ability. It's simply that by and large the ceiling of our players 100% effort is below that of many of the tougher opppnents we face.
 
I would be curious to seem 1 score wins correlated with recruiting ranking. Virginia beat UNC by 6 six today. For you math geniuses that is a 1 score win. We beat UNC by 26. Pitt is 1-1 in 1 score games. Pitt is clearly better than us.
 
ramblin' wagon said:
"Our coach should exceed all others in every possible stat. If not then WAH WAH BIG CRY BOO HOO FIRE HIM NOW."
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Literally not one person made an argument suggestive of that. You seem to be struggling with today's loss. Maybe sit next week out bud? Then you'll be ready to roll with all of Clemson's superior athletes in two weeks, you're good at that coping mechanism!
 
Dirty Jacket said:
Literally not one person made an argument suggestive of that. You seem to be struggling with today's loss. Maybe sit next week out bud? Then you'll be ready to roll with all of Clemson's superior athletes in two weeks, you're good at that coping mechanism!
Click to expand...

Uhhh many have said that today.
 
ramblin' wagon said:
I would be curious to seem 1 score wins correlated with recruiting ranking. Virginia beat UNC by 6 six today. For you math geniuses that is a 1 score win. We beat UNC by 26. Pitt is 1-1 in 1 score games. Pitt is clearly better than us.
Click to expand...

Pitt is 12 spots ahead of us in recruiting rankings and UNC is 20 spots ahead of us.
 
ramblin' wagon said:
Where is Miami?
Click to expand...

35 spots ahead of us. Tennessee is 32 spots ahead of us. I guess that's worth 1 point. Yea, this to me debunks your nonsense tonight man. Yes, basically every team except Wake has better rated high school players, but if that was the gospel that you claim it to be, we have never beaten uga Clemson vt UNC duke(sad/lol/sad),FSu, USCw, msu, etc while johnson has been here. How did ole chan do with all of his stud high school kids? Jack shit. CPJ was able to win with Chans players with better coaching.
 
Dirty Jacket said:
35 spots ahead of us. Tennessee is 32 spots ahead of us. I guess that's worth 1 point. Yea, this to me debunks your nonsense tonight man. Yes, basically every team except Wake has better rated high school players, but if that was the gospel that you claim it to be, we have never beaten uga Clemson vt UNC duke(sad/lol/sad),FSu, USCw, msu, etc while johnson has been here. How did ole chan do with all of his stud high school kids? Jack öööö. CPJ was able to win with Chans players with better coaching.
Click to expand...

It's almost like coaching can over come to a certain extent. You were arguing against me now you seem to be making my points. Don't know what to tell you.
 
Recruiting vs coaching. Nature vs nurture. Determinism vs free will. Coret Haim v Corey Feldman. The great debates will never be settled.
 
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