What is stopping Tech?

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GiveEmHellJackets

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This is (I guess) a touchy subject, and it comes up a lot tangentially, but I would be interested to hear what STers would say in response to this direct question:

What are the barriers (if any) that prevent Georgia Tech's fooball program from becoming a top tier program? Examples of top tier programs in my mind would include: USC, Texas, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma etc.

Can we ever get there?
 
Losses? :D

No, I really don't think too much. Our academic standards perhaps.
 
--Academics - specifically range of majors offered, 4 year math requirement, and the prohibition from recruiting marginal qualifiers

--Facilities - we don't have a massive stadium, and that impresses many

--Finances - we don't have the money to build facilities that many other schools have (see Oregon, for example)

--Recent History - many of todays recruits were raised in the 90s...we sucked in the 90s. Their parents were raised in the 70s and early 80s...we sucked then, too.
 
Two things that come to mind: Academic requirements - our "easy" program is now ranked in the top 25, limited majors at the school. Alumni/fan base - relative to the schools you mentioned, we are tiny as far as following we have. Hard to compete if you simply to revenue to fuel things.
 
Nothing now that we have a coach that hates losing. But if there is something, I disagree that it is academic standards, i.e. gpa, sat. It may be that you can't major in P.E. here or it could be that while we have an undergrad population of about 14K, many schools have more than 14K girls, that drink.
 
Barriers Can Be Overcome

There are definite barriers, and most fans are aware of them.

In no particular order: academics, money, scattered fan base, politics, and limited recruiting.

The scattered fan base can be overcome by winning. It will be hard to match the money of the big schools.

As the population grows, the acadmics will become less of a problem if the High Schools don't begin to deteriorate in academic excellence.

Recruiting can also be overcome by the increase of qualified High School candidates due to population growth. Years ago, I would read all about the high school games each week. Back then, there were not that many high schools. I look in the paper now and there are hundreds of them in the State.

One problem that has always plagued GT is politics. Politics caused the teams of the 50's to become less able to compete when free substitution was abolished. There was strong evidence that it was abolished to punish such wining teams as GT who used free substitution to win.

Even though we now have free substitution, there are other political factors alive and well. It appears many referees are being told to insure that Tech gets a lot of penalties from illegal blocking techinques. We know they are not illegal, but they are called just the same. I would not doubt that Tech's blocking schemes will soon be ruled illegal.

Some network individuals may have influence on televised games for Tech, and soft voting in Tech's favor due to their positive bias of other conferences and teams.

However, a good coach can overcome many of these obstacles. So far, Johnson has managed to do this. There is still one thing in favor of any "winning" team, it will influence many people to change their minds about a team.

A good coach and winning will overcome a lot of problems.

Father Time
 
GiveEmHellJackets said:
This is (I guess) a touchy subject, and it comes up a lot tangentially, but I would be interested to hear what STers would say in response to this direct question:

What are the barriers (if any) that prevent Georgia Tech's fooball program from becoming a top tier program? Examples of top tier programs in my mind would include: USC, Texas, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma etc.

Can we ever get there?
Click to expand...

Our biggest advantage is also our biggest barrier. Paul Johnson has already shown an ability to get us to where we want to be----but---can he recruit (or manage the recruiting staff) at a level to get us to where we can compete with Georgia, LSU, VPI, and Iowa, etc. He has proven he can win a couple of match ups with this caliber of team, but the six games with that group we are still 2-4 when we were poised to make a splash. Our present qb situation is abysmal--no better tonight than when Gailey was here. That has to be fixed. Our defense is still an unknown quantity with a new system being implemented. Our offensive line is killing us. Our special teams play has been average at best. Is Paul Johnson the best coach we have had since (and maybe including) Dodd? Yes. Will we ever be able to do any better than these past two years? I say the jury is out. 20-7 is a raising of the bar like I never expected at any time since Ross left. But this may be as good as it gets. We need major improvement in so many areas before we can talk about being in the conversation with Texas, Alabama, et. al. A good start would be get to the point where we can beat a mediocre Georgia team, and win a bowl game--any bowl game. So far I have seen no guarantee that Coach Johnson can take us to the NEXT "next level."
 
Are we being stopped?

If you are talking about being in the top 10 every year, yes we are deficient in a number of ways:

-Academics/#1 in football team SAT average a couple of years ago. But you can't stay in that top 10 and expect to always be in the other top 10. Tech is hard!!

-Small but we are actually getting bigger. That will help the fan base some.

-Money. Tech grads make good livings but Tech athletics are not number 1 priority for giving. In fact, most of us give more to the Foundation than to the AA.

-Small sidewalk fan base. Not surprising how arrogant we are.
 
killerbuzz42 said:
I'm afraid that ship has sailed. At least in the public sector.
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Every generation thinks it's the last.

Still got smart kids, normal kids, and dumb kids in high school. The academics have not deteriorated. Calculus, physics, computer science, etc are all taught in high school now and the majority of kids take school seriously. You only hear so much about the kids who don't bc those are the ones who need "saving" and are "victims" of the public school system.
 
gth816f said:
Excuses.

Which hopefully we're doing away with now.
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Amen.

That and consistency. People need to remember that we're leaps and bounds better than any team Gailey fielded and there's only upside

We've got to get consistent on both sides of the ball especially on D and mixin' it up a bit more with the pass on O.

We were very very young this year on both sides and went to the Orange Bowl.

I truly think that Groh is going to helps us tremendously on the defensive side of the ball which is where we've been lackin' the last 2 years as far as consistency.

Josh (and I would think most would agree) has shocked the hell outta me how far he's come as an Option QB considering he was a Top 10 Pro Style QB coming out of HS and could sling it all day for Greene County. In order to do so, it's going to come down to Johnson implementing more passing and letting him get the reps at throwing the ball again in PRACTICE instead of 99% of it revolving around reading the D and making the right read running the Option Offense.

Just my take
 
The academics will always be an issue but we have the coaches and the coaches are recruiting players to compete every year. The coaches will develop the players but I see the need to improve team strength and conditioning. I came from a small school where we didn’t have the biggest players but made up for size through a rigorous strength and conditioning program and also developed the soft players to have the confidence to be beast on the field with a no lose attitude.
You’ve got to play this game with a nasty streak attitude!
 
TechinItEasy said:
Every generation thinks it's the last.

Still got smart kids, normal kids, and dumb kids in high school. The academics have not deteriorated. Calculus, physics, computer science, etc are all taught in high school now and the majority of kids take school seriously. You only hear so much about the kids who don't bc those are the ones who need "saving" and are "victims" of the public school system.
Click to expand...

I didnt mean to infer that schools were any better when I was there. My high school was near the bottom of the pile for the whole state which has historically been near the bottom of the pile of the country. My high school was a joke. It had a ****in day care for christs sake. Talk about priorities.

And true they are offering higher-end classes in high schools now but I just cant fathom that kids are climbing the walls to jump into calc in high school when they dont have to. I have to disagree with you that the majority of kids take school seriously. A ton of kids in college dont even take school seriously, much less in high school.

I guess my only qualified insight into this for the last decade has been though my mom who has been a middle school teacher for almost 30 years and she may just be gettin a little wacky as she nears retirement, but she swears its all goin in the tank slowly but surely. More and more kids keep gettin the whole social promotion deal and end up damn near in high school before someone realizes that the kid isnt competent enough to do basic math or read at a fifth grade level.

I am a full believer in the dumbing down of America and I think its more evident every year. Let me clarify that, I believe that it is happening. I dont support it.

This inadvertently got rather lengthy and I'm sure one of you is gonna be so kind as to remind me that there is an off topic forum for this kind of thing
 
harder academics compared to all the power house schools and not as many degree programs.
 
Yes I'm afraid I may have brought some of my off-topicnesh with me in here too.

I see your point. For sure. And I've obviously heard that side before. But I'm just not sure I totally buy into it, especially when I see how kids were in the 80s, 70s, 60s, etc. They drank, smoked, and skipped school back then too.

I dunno. Maybe i'm just biased bc I went to public school, took advantage of the opportunities that were there and consider myself normal.
 
One thing that is stopping Tech is the belief that something is stopping us.

There is no something.
 
Well, it always has been a combination of strict academic requirements and coaching. The right coaching can negate the stifling effects of academic/entry restrictions. Win and have a dynamic program and kids will want to play for you. We're moving in the right direction now as opposed to the defeatist attitude of the dumbass Gailey/Braine era.
 
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