Whisenhunt

GTCrew4b said:
It's an argument with useless data. NFL coaching data is rarely relevant to collegiate success. Collegiate coaching data is, of which he has none.
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So in the absence of that, this is what we have to make fact-based assessments. Or we could make them on emotions, you know, like a bitch.

öööö all of you. I spent like 12 minute putting together that data.
 
05GTCorndog said:
Some people have been using his NFL head coaching record against him, but I think that is the wrong reason to choose not to think he would be good.

He wasn't a bad coach when he had a decent QB. That is the name of the game in the NFL. Hell, even Belicheck failed in the NFL without a QB. Same with Pete Carrol. I'm not saying Whisenhunt is either of those guys, but the point is valid.

Starting QBs for his NFL head coaching years:

Arizona:
2007 - 8-8 - Leinart / Warner - 7th ranked scoring offense
2008 - 9-7 - Warner - 3rd ranked scoring offense - SB Appearance
2009 - 10-6 - Warner - 11th ranked scoring offense
2010 - 5-11 - D Anderson / Skelton / Hall - 30th ranked scoring offense
2011 - 8-8 - Skelton / Kolb - 23rd ranked scoring offense
2012 - 5-11 - Skelton / Kolb / Lindley - 30th ranked scoring offense

Tennessee
2014 - 2-14 - Whitehurst / Mettenberger / Locker - 30th ranked scoring offense
2015 - 1-6 - Mettenberger / Mariota (rookie) - 28th scoring offense

Not many NFL coaches are going to win when given Skelton / Kolb for 3 seasons and Whitehurst / Mettenberger.

As an OC:

Pittsburgh
2004 - Big Ben - 11th ranked scoring offense
2005 - Big Ben - 9th ranked scoring offense
2006 - Big Ben - 11th ranked scoring offense

San Diego
2016 - Rivers - 9th ranked scoring offense
2017 - RIvers - 13th ranked scoring offense
2018 - Rivers - 4th ranked scoring offense

Again, I'm not saying this is "the guy" for GT, but I don't think using his NFL head coaching record against him is the reason to doubt him.

I'm more concerned about what sort of offense he would run at GT. I think he is smart enough and knows enough about GT that he would have to run something innovative. He isn't my first or second choice, but I think we could end up doing worse. I think those immediately assuming that he is Gailey 2.0 is unfair.

But... who knows.
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Both spurrier and Saban did not have success in the NFL so there’s that.
 
I think it's good data, and makes me a little less apprehensive about him. I just find him to be probably the least exciting hire that's getting thrown around as a possibility. That said, CPJ sometimes makes me forget that the HC and OC can be different people, so if he ended up being the coach and he brought in a humdinger of an OC (and trusted said OC to run the offense), I could get a little more excited. Like others though, I'm still concerned about his total lack college experience.
 
Deke said:
I think it's good data, and makes me a little less apprehensive about him. I just find him to be probably the least exciting hire that's getting thrown around as a possibility. That said, CPJ sometimes makes me forget that the HC and OC can be different people, so if he ended up being the coach and he brought in a humdinger of an OC (and trusted said OC to run the offense), I could get a little more excited. Like others though, I'm still concerned about his total lack college experience.
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I actually think that a defensive minded HC who hires OC and DC is best for us. Meddling in defense doesn’t seem to carry the disaster of HC meddling in offense play calls.
 
Here's my question. How much coaching up would Whisenhunt have done in the NFL? Did he ever have to develop a player with little football experience? That's my worry about NFL coaches in general: they don't always do a lot of coaching. Or at least the sort of coaching that would be needed in college.
 
05GTCorndog said:
Some people have been using his NFL head coaching record against him, but I think that is the wrong reason to choose not to think he would be good.

He wasn't a bad coach when he had a decent QB. That is the name of the game in the NFL. Hell, even Belicheck failed in the NFL without a QB. Same with Pete Carrol. I'm not saying Whisenhunt is either of those guys, but the point is valid.

Starting QBs for his NFL head coaching years:

Arizona:
2007 - 8-8 - Leinart / Warner - 7th ranked scoring offense
2008 - 9-7 - Warner - 3rd ranked scoring offense - SB Appearance
2009 - 10-6 - Warner - 11th ranked scoring offense
2010 - 5-11 - D Anderson / Skelton / Hall - 30th ranked scoring offense
2011 - 8-8 - Skelton / Kolb - 23rd ranked scoring offense
2012 - 5-11 - Skelton / Kolb / Lindley - 30th ranked scoring offense

Tennessee
2014 - 2-14 - Whitehurst / Mettenberger / Locker - 30th ranked scoring offense
2015 - 1-6 - Mettenberger / Mariota (rookie) - 28th scoring offense

Not many NFL coaches are going to win when given Skelton / Kolb for 3 seasons and Whitehurst / Mettenberger.

As an OC:

Pittsburgh
2004 - Big Ben - 11th ranked scoring offense
2005 - Big Ben - 9th ranked scoring offense
2006 - Big Ben - 11th ranked scoring offense

San Diego
2016 - Rivers - 9th ranked scoring offense
2017 - RIvers - 13th ranked scoring offense
2018 - Rivers - 4th ranked scoring offense

Again, I'm not saying this is "the guy" for GT, but I don't think using his NFL head coaching record against him is the reason to doubt him.

I'm more concerned about what sort of offense he would run at GT. I think he is smart enough and knows enough about GT that he would have to run something innovative. He isn't my first or second choice, but I think we could end up doing worse. I think those immediately assuming that he is Gailey 2.0 is unfair.

But... who knows.
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No, not the guy.
 
It is pretty much impossible to predict college success based on nfl coaching experience. The talent gap and margin of error in the nfl is really small.

I don’t think KW would be able to put together a great college staff. He would be able to manage the program well. I could see a Gailey type academic screwup from being too trusting of the academic staff.
 
05GTCorndog said:
Some people have been using his NFL head coaching record against him, but I think that is the wrong reason to choose not to think he would be good.

He wasn't a bad coach when he had a decent QB. That is the name of the game in the NFL. Hell, even Belicheck failed in the NFL without a QB. Same with Pete Carrol. I'm not saying Whisenhunt is either of those guys, but the point is valid.

Starting QBs for his NFL head coaching years:

Arizona:
2007 - 8-8 - Leinart / Warner - 7th ranked scoring offense
2008 - 9-7 - Warner - 3rd ranked scoring offense - SB Appearance
2009 - 10-6 - Warner - 11th ranked scoring offense
2010 - 5-11 - D Anderson / Skelton / Hall - 30th ranked scoring offense
2011 - 8-8 - Skelton / Kolb - 23rd ranked scoring offense
2012 - 5-11 - Skelton / Kolb / Lindley - 30th ranked scoring offense

Tennessee
2014 - 2-14 - Whitehurst / Mettenberger / Locker - 30th ranked scoring offense
2015 - 1-6 - Mettenberger / Mariota (rookie) - 28th scoring offense

Not many NFL coaches are going to win when given Skelton / Kolb for 3 seasons and Whitehurst / Mettenberger.

As an OC:

Pittsburgh
2004 - Big Ben - 11th ranked scoring offense
2005 - Big Ben - 9th ranked scoring offense
2006 - Big Ben - 11th ranked scoring offense

San Diego
2016 - Rivers - 9th ranked scoring offense
2017 - RIvers - 13th ranked scoring offense
2018 - Rivers - 4th ranked scoring offense

Again, I'm not saying this is "the guy" for GT, but I don't think using his NFL head coaching record against him is the reason to doubt him.

I'm more concerned about what sort of offense he would run at GT. I think he is smart enough and knows enough about GT that he would have to run something innovative. He isn't my first or second choice, but I think we could end up doing worse. I think those immediately assuming that he is Gailey 2.0 is unfair.

But... who knows.
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There aren't enough data points for your argument. Warner, Roethlisburger and Rivers are among the three better QB's of the past 20 years. The other guys are basically nobodies who couldn't cut it. (We'll see about Mariota, I guess.) And even with these good QB's, Ken's numbers are just in the top third of the competition. That's equivalent to finish 40th in FBS.

If your broader point is that good players make good coaches... well, duh. The point is that we need a good coach to make good players, given our much-discussed recruiting problems. So it's not a good strategy to hire a coach with no recruiting success, but who apparently depends on having great players to perform well. He needs to be able to coach 'em up. And based on the numbers you're showing us, there's not a lot of evidence of Ken making lemonade out of lemons.

I'm in the camp of people that, of all the names floated so far, finds Ken to be the least appealing option. I'd much prefer someone with lots of experience recruiting and coaching 20 year olds, dealing with academics and home sicknesses, etc. Not dealing with players worrying about their endzone celebrations and which new Ferrari to buy. Relative to our other options, he brings nothing except Tech nostalgia.
 
Real Talk: if we ööööing hire Whisenhunt we might as well hire Gailey back. It would be the same results.
 
NFL just differs so much from college. You have to talk to kids' mothers for months out of the year instead of picking up a tight end on waivers. So much of the NFL scheme could not be imparted on college kids since there just isn't enough time. Charlie Weis' "decided schematic advantage" got him some big-ass checks from athletic departments, but never showed on the field.

If he didn't go to Tech, would we be considering Whisenhunt at all?
 
JJacket said:
Saban was a bad NFL coach. Keep that in mind
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Yeah, but he was already a good college head coach. The same goes for Spurrier. These guys had knowledge and experience in the college game well before they went to the NFL.
 
JJacket said:
Saban was a bad NFL coach. Keep that in mind
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I looked at the most recent top 25. The only two coaches with any substantial NFL experience are Saban and Harbough. Saban was mediocre in NFL since so much was out of his control for the "Process." Harbough did pretty well at SF but pissed everyone in the organization off. Both were very successful college coaches before they went to the NFL.

When colleges hire coaches who went up in the NFL exclusively, the result is always mediocre at best. Gailey, Wannstedt, Lovie Smith, Charlie Weis.
 
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