Worst coach in the Coastal

southendzoneBEE said:
1. Richt, Miami
2. Johnson, GT
3. Cutcliffe, Duke
4. Fedora, UNC
5. Narduzzi, Pitt
6. Fuente, VT
7. Virginia searching for coach.

Narduzzi realistically could be 3 or 4 but we don't really know how good he is yet. I was about to put Cutcliffe at number one but I looked at his numbers and he was mainly successful as a coordinator at Tennessee.

So to answer your question, if you take away all first year coaches, Fedora would be the worst.
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I think CPJ is a better football coach than Cutcliffe. But after this season an objective observer would have to start to consider the steady gains he's had at Duke starting to equal the erratic success CPJ has had at GT.

I'd be hesitant to put Richt up there. He's been marginally better record-wise at UGA with a boatload of talent against schedules that are comparable to the rest of the ACC (with the East being the dumpster fire it has been lately). UGA fans were taunting us down the stairs talking about how we were 3-9...in the ACC. I decided to just keep walking rather than to point out we had a significantly tougher schedule than them this year (and probably tougher last year too).

I think CPJ and Cutcliffe are at the top with Richt possibly in the discussion. The rest just haven't had enough sustained success to be in the discussion. Fedora was about to get fired before this epic year (wow, sounds familiar).
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
I know you're a big Johnson fan but Cutcliffe has accomplished more at lowly Puke and has beaten CPJ 2 years in a row now, including CPJ's best GT team. With a few exceptions, we've never been truly awful. With a few exceptions, Puke has always been truly awful. Cutcliffe pulled them out of the shitter and made them relevant.

CPJ is 2-6 vs Richt so am not sure how you rank CPJ ahead of him.

I don't think Johnson's days at GA Southern are relevant in a conversation about P5 HCs. We've got 8 years of P5 football to grade him on now. His record against VT, Miami, mutts, and bowl games is far below 0.500. His best teams don't seem to fare well against these teams and games.
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[Cutcliffe] is 2-6 vs [CPJ] so am not sure how you rank [Cutcliffe] ahead of him.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
I know you're a big Johnson fan but Cutcliffe has accomplished more at lowly Puke and has beaten CPJ 2 years in a row now, including CPJ's best GT team. With a few exceptions, we've never been truly awful. With a few exceptions, Puke has always been truly awful. Cutcliffe pulled them out of the shitter and made them relevant.



CPJ is 2-6 vs Richt so am not sure how you rank CPJ ahead of him.
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I like the part where you argue all these non-record based reasons that Cutcliffe is better than Johnson but then throw out "CPJ is 2-6 vs Richt how can he be better!!?!?"

For shits and giggles, what's Cutcliffe's record vs Johnson?
 
Johnson is on par with Cutcliff. Both have had similar results. Johnson's work at the USNA is similar to what Cut has done at Duke. And Johnson's results at Tech are similar to what Cut achieved at Ole Miss.

Richt is harder to grade. He is certainly the best coach UGa has had since Dooley. He has a solid record. But he wasn't able to capitalize on a horrible sec east, but he has been in the SECCG about a third of the time.

If I was ranking them, I would say that Richt is the best coach of the three if you are running a football factory. Johnson and Cut are better if you are working with anything less.
 
WracerX said:
Johnson's results at Tech are similar to what Cut achieved at Ole Miss.
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Oh really?

How many times did Cutcliffe win SEC coach of the year? How many times did he win the conference or even the division?

How many BCS-caliber bowls did he coach in/win?
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
I know you're a big Johnson fan but Cutcliffe has accomplished more at lowly Puke and has beaten CPJ 2 years in a row now, including CPJ's best GT team. With a few exceptions, we've never been truly awful. With a few exceptions, Puke has always been truly awful. Cutcliffe pulled them out of the shitter and made them relevant.

CPJ is 2-6 vs Richt so am not sure how you rank CPJ ahead of him.

I don't think Johnson's days at GA Southern are relevant in a conversation about P5 HCs. We've got 8 years of P5 football to grade him on now. His record against VT, Miami, mutts, and bowl games is far below 0.500. His best teams don't seem to fare well against these teams and games.
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hmm....Cutcliffe is 2-6 against CPJ so I am not sure how you rank Cut ahead of him.

oh yeah, CPJ is 5-4 against Clemson and 3-2 against FSU...but I guess we probably shouldn't consider those.
 
I would struggle to name a "worst coach" now that London is gone at UVA - he would have been my clear choice. And, obviously he was very good at Richmond. But, he was overmatched at UVA. Based on their total body of work as head coaches I would say that Richt, Johnson, Cutcliffe and Fedora are all good. I think if you are being as objective as possible Richt goes #1 - I know he coached at a big SEC school with access to incredible talent, but look at how much more he accomplished in his fifteen years than his predecessors, Donnan and Goff accomplished. Cutcliffe and Johnson would be tit-for-tat. Both have won at two schools, and are at schools where winning is not particularly easy. Fedora was very good at Southern Miss and is having a truly great year this year at UNC. But, I still would say he has not accomplished as much as Johnson and Cutcliffe over the long haul.

Unfortunately, college football cares little for lifetime achievement. It is more - what have you done for me lately? In January of '15 Paul Johnson was the clear leader among coaches in the division because of his big year in '14. Now, in one awful season he drops back to the pack. Next year he will have to show improvement or he will be the coach on the hotseat. Fair, probably not. But, this is how it works, and it is why you get paid obscene salaries and at the presser on the day you are hired you talk of competing for championships. No one says on the day they sign for all that cash, "Now I want you to know that if we have some losing seasons I expect everyone to be understanding and patient."
 
Diseqc said:
Oh really?

How many times did Cutcliffe win SEC coach of the year? How many times did he win the conference or even the division?

How many BCS-caliber bowls did he coach in/win?
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He won the Cotton, which is on par with the Orange.
 
daBuzz said:
I can give you 6 out of 8 reasons why Richt is a better coach than Johnson.
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Yeah, just like Ray Goff is a better coach than Bobby Ross, right? And Ron Zook is better than Mark Richt.

That's a really shallow comparison.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
I don't think Johnson's days at GA Southern are relevant in a conversation about P5 HCs. We've got 8 years of P5 football to grade him on now. His record against VT, Miami, mutts, and bowl games is far below 0.500. His best teams don't seem to fare well against these teams and games.
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I think the GA Southern days are certainly relevant. When put in a situation where he had as good or better talent relative to his competition, Johnson absolutely destroyed everyone. He won his conference (easily the best FCS conference) all 5 years and went to the national championship 3 out of 5. That's Nick Saban level domination.

When put in a situation (Navy) where he had inferior talent to every team on his schedule, Johnson still won about 75% of the time.

When put in a situation (GT) where his talent was relatively average, Johnson has ranged from average to excellent, depending on the year (with this year being the outlier).

As GT fans, we rightly focus on the past 8 years to evaluate him. But if we're comparing overall resumes, which we are, Johnson>Cutcliffe>Richt, IMO, and I don't even see how you can make any argument otherwise other than head-to-head record, which is not a good comparison.
 
Would CMR still be 6-2 against CPJ if he were coaching Tech and CPJ was coaching uga for the last 8 years


Also ask yourself that same question for Cut and Duke
 
johncu said:
I think the GA Southern days are certainly relevant. When put in a situation where he had as good or better talent relative to his competition, Johnson absolutely destroyed everyone. He won his conference (easily the best FCS conference) all 5 years and went to the national championship 3 out of 5. That's Nick Saban level domination.

When put in a situation (Navy) where he had inferior talent to every team on his schedule, Johnson still won about 75% of the time.

When put in a situation (GT) where his talent was relatively average, Johnson has ranged from average to excellent, depending on the year (with this year being the outlier).

As GT fans, we rightly focus on the past 8 years to evaluate him. But if we're comparing overall resumes, which we are, Johnson>Cutcliffe>Richt, IMO, and I don't even see how you can make any argument otherwise other than head-to-head record, which is not a good comparison.
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No argument on his Southern dominance but that's practically HS 'ball back then.

He didn't have "inferior talent to every team on the schedule at Navy". Talent was identical to several teams and probably superior to most.

Take his best season:
Duke
NorthEastern
Tulsa
Vandy
Notre Dame
Rice
Air Force
Delaware
Army
Tulane
Rutgers
New Mexico (bowl)

Navy's talent was on par or better than all but Notre Dame.

So when Johnson has equal or better talent, he does well. When his talent is less by a slim or large margin, his numbers are pretty bad.

Johnson is the same at Tech: We destroy teams with lesser talent...in & out of conference. But teams with equal or better, we lose far more than we win (VPI, Miami, Mutts, Bowl Games). Clemson being the bizarre outlier here, same way that Duke is becoming a negative outlier as we out-talent them everywhere but have now lost 2IAR.

It's why I put Cutcliffe ahead of him. Cutcliffe is winning with garbage talent at Duke. Cutcliffe makes chicken salad out of chicken öööö. Johnson took a medicore team from CCG and made it good. Cutcliffe took a pack of total losers and made it good.

Richt is a superior recruiter but also doesn't fare well against equal-or-better talent. So there, I go with HTH records and it's not close: Richt owns CPJ.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
He didn't have "inferior talent to every team on the schedule at Navy". Talent was identical to several teams and probably superior to most.

Take his best season:
Duke
NorthEastern
Tulsa
Vandy
Notre Dame
Rice
Air Force
Delaware
Army
Tulane
Rutgers
New Mexico (bowl)

Navy's talent was on par or better than all but Notre Dame.
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Dude, I don't know where your assumptions come from, but it explains why you don't think much of PJ.

Look at Navy's recruiting rankings:
2003- 117 (out of 118)
2004 - 118
2005 - 117
2006 - 119 (out of 120)
2007 - 120

Navy did not have equal talent to anybody except Army and Air Force, who he went 9-1 against (after Navy hadn't won the Commanders in Chief trophy in line 30 years). Saying Navy talent is on par with teams like Rutgers or Duke is like saying Kentucky is on par with Alabama. It makes no sense. He literally did not have a single 3* player on his roster at all. Most of them were unrated by Rivals at all, with no offers from any other programs.

RamblinWreck92 said:
Johnson is the same at Tech: We destroy teams with lesser talent...in & out of conference. But teams with equal or better, we lose far more than we win (VPI, Miami, Mutts, Bowl Games). Clemson being the bizarre outlier here, same way that Duke is becoming a negative outlier as we out-talent them everywhere but have now lost 2IAR.
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Do you know how many teams on our schedule this year have recruited better than us since 2008? I'll tell you: nine. According to recruiting rankings, we should have been 3-9 this year, and 4-8 most years. Miami, Clemson, and FSU do not have anything remotely resembling equal talent. Pitt, Duke, Wake, and Syracuse recruit about like we do, and we destroy them most years. Virginia and UNC regularly outrecruit Georgia Tech, yet PJ is 10-6 against them. PJ is also 9-7 against FSU and Clemson, who have by far the best talent in the conference.

As to PJ's inability to beat top-tier talent, I'll give you one more stat: record vs. Top 10 teams:

Johnson: 5-6
Richt: 10-19 (4-13 since 2007)
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
No argument on his Southern dominance but that's practically HS 'ball back then.

He didn't have "inferior talent to every team on the schedule at Navy". Talent was identical to several teams and probably superior to most.

Take his best season:
Duke
NorthEastern
Tulsa
Vandy
Notre Dame
Rice
Air Force
Delaware
Army
Tulane
Rutgers
New Mexico (bowl)

Navy's talent was on par or better than all but Notre Dame.
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This statement makes you look moronic.

Navy does not out-talent these teams. What Navy does do is out-discipline, out-effort, and out-team these teams.
 
My ranking:

1) Richt
2) CPJ
3) Cut
3) Fedora
5) Fuente
6) UVA hire
7) Narduzzi
 
johncu said:
Dude, I don't know where your assumptions come from, but it explains why you don't think much of PJ.

Look at Navy's recruiting rankings:
2003- 117 (out of 118)
2004 - 118
2005 - 117
2006 - 119 (out of 120)
2007 - 120

Navy did not have equal talent to anybody except Army and Air Force, who he went 9-1 against (after Navy hadn't won the Commanders in Chief trophy in line 30 years). Saying Navy talent is on par with teams like Rutgers or Duke is like saying Kentucky is on par with Alabama. It makes no sense. He literally did not have a single 3* player on his roster at all. Most of them were unrated by Rivals at all, with no offers from any other programs.
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Please. To even begin to argue that Navy talent was inferior to such football powerhouses as

Duke
NorthEastern
Tulsa
Vandy
Rice
Air Force
Delaware
Army
Tulane
Rutgers
&
New Mexico

is absolutely ludicrous. Delaware? NorthEastern? Rice? These teams sucked then and now. And yes, Johnson whipped them, as he should have.

There's an inherent bias against service academy talent. For more info, check out this year's Heisman voting. That doesn't mean they stink - just means they're perennially underrated.

On no football field does Northeastern and Delaware have more talent than Navy. Only in the best years of Rice and Tulane (who sux, btw) do they out-talent Navy.

Do you know how many teams on our schedule this year have recruited better than us since 2008? I'll tell you: nine. According to recruiting rankings, we should have been 3-9 this year, and 4-8 most years. Miami, Clemson, and FSU do not have anything remotely resembling equal talent. Pitt, Duke, Wake, and Syracuse recruit about like we do, and we destroy them most years. Virginia and UNC regularly outrecruit Georgia Tech, yet PJ is 10-6 against them. PJ is also 9-7 against FSU and Clemson, who have by far the best talent in the conference.
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Johnson's a pretty mediocre recruiter, that much has been established. I know it's tough to hang with FSU and Clemson when trying to get a kid to come to Atlanta but losing to Wake and Duke is pathetic. We really felt his recruiting effects this year.


As to PJ's inability to beat top-tier talent, I'll give you one more stat: record vs. Top 10 teams:

Johnson: 5-6
Richt: 10-19 (4-13 since 2007)
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2-6 vs Richt is the only stat that matters there though. Neither are terribly good gameday coaches. Both are terrible clock managers. Richt's a better recruiter, though had an easier time doing so at Athens than in ATL. It won't get tougher for him in Miami.

What would Johnson's "Top 10 Teams" record be if he was playing UF, Alabama, Auburn, and LSU as often as that idiot Richt was?
 
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