Above The Line Watch

aeromech said:
Must be, I missed he entered the transfer portal. When I talked to him over the summer he seemed excited about the program and the upcoming season.
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I thought he was going to go to ksu. Maybe he never got cleared and just moved on.
 
smokey_wasp said:
I thought he was going to go to ksu. Maybe he never got cleared and just moved on.
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Doesn't have to clear the portal to transfer to Kennesaw. If he is still injured, and hasn't cleared that way, it'd be a shame if he didn't take a medical at GT
 
txsting said:
My problem with the above the line crap is that you can't prepare 61 guys like they are the starter. If you're giving all these guys equal reps, you're not doing the team any favors IMO. At the end of the day, your starters are getting less reps than the other teams starters. And maybe our second guy is better prepared, but he's second for a reason. Especially in this program right now.
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this is actually wrong. Collins runs two practices at the same time. You have to see it. It is literally live ball 11 on 11 at the same time two different games. Thats 44 kids getting live reps at once. As far back as I can remember that never happened anywhere I have seen. It was always the traditional everyone watch 22 kids play and wait your turn that you allude to above.

There is no way in hell, our starters are getting less reps than other teams. I bet we get between 1.5 and 2x the reps of any other team in football right now. I have never seen a practice like this.

When its live, there are no substitutions for backups. The backups are going live on another field at the same time so to speak. So everyone gets maximum reps.
 
JJacket said:
Being they can play 4 games and redshirt, I'd expect several to be held for later in the season when injuries and fatigue are a factor.
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Pretty sure I remember CGC or one of the other coaches mention something like this. Said a lot of teams use their guys early to see what they can do then shut them down. They say the way we practice, everybody is getting prepared, so they may be more valuable later in the year than now. So if/when we see some guys using their 4 games, it will likely be later in the year.
 
33jacket said:
this is actually wrong. Collins runs two practices at the same time. You have to see it. It is literally live ball 11 on 11 at the same time two different games. Thats 44 kids getting live reps at once. As far back as I can remember that never happened anywhere I have seen. It was always the traditional everyone watch 22 kids play and wait your turn that you allude to above.

There is no way in hell, our starters are getting less reps than other teams. I bet we get between 1.5 and 2x the reps of any other team in football right now. I have never seen a practice like this.

When its live, there are no substitutions for backups. The backups are going live on another field at the same time so to speak. So everyone gets maximum reps.
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Thanks for the insight. So if we have 61 ATL, and we run two 11v11s, what are the other 17 kids doing? The coaches have claimed many times they are all getting equal reps because we are a "developmental program".

And what of the claim that cornerbacks are cross-trained at safety and vice versa? What does the position flexibility bit actually look like when executed on the practice field?
 
Architorture23 said:
The players know what is what and where they stand. At practice they typically have 3 groups... As Bs and Cs, same as first string, second string, third string. They mix here and there but it's not a free for all.

ATL is just nomenclature. It is not as radical a departure as they're selling it to be.
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This. It's a motivational tactic that gives "backups" that will play a clear distinction from "backups" that won't. Honestly I like it a lot, because you can allow more players to feel like starters, and also make it clear to other players that they are not ready to contribute yet and will either need to get more experience, up their game, or go somewhere else.
 
txsting said:
Thanks for the insight. So if we have 61 ATL, and we run two 11v11s, what are the other 17 kids doing? The coaches have claimed many times they are all getting equal reps because we are a "developmental program".

And what of the claim that cornerbacks are cross-trained at safety and vice versa? What does the position flexibility bit actually look like when executed on the practice field?
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If u have 44 playing u still have packages. 2 Te sets. 2 rb sets. 4 wr sets. U cant play 9 wr at a time. So obviously out of 44 guys are shuttling in and out like a real game. I mean by your sarcasm then only 22 guys should play any snaps in a game plus 2 specialists. And yes you can get equal or close to equal reps this way. Its not rocket science really there is a rotation like any game and because we are running two squads all kids get darn near equal reps.

Same thing for your second question. Its not a hard concept. A guy rotates down into the box to play a little lb. a cb rotates to s. A new cb comes in. A lb takes a breather rinse and repeat. U notice how few lb above the line.

Lee gets reps on O then switches. Guys rotate. Really a very easy thing.

Certainly better than watching paint dry the way cpj practiced and other coaches. Yawn. And should help develop kids over the years. They are getting more reps in fall practice than under cpj spring and fall combined. It cant hurt.
 
I think many are over thinking ATL. First, none of us will know for sure until after a few games but I think some reasonable guesses can be made based on things the coaches have said and common sense.

For most position groups all players ATL will play in a game; the ones that are an exception are the specialist and the QBs. Now, I think all three of our current QBs are likely to play but if we have Joe Ham on the roster, then he is getting all the snaps against Clemson.

Being ATL doesn’t mean everyone is equal, just means the “worst” player is still good enough to contribute in a game. I promise you that internally, they have a depth order with 1, 2, 3rd string, etc. Some of the playing time will be based on situational substitution. It really will not look much different than most other teams or GT in the past: at some positions the “starter” might play 80% of the time and the ATL backups will split the 20%. At another, 2 players may each play 40% and the backups split the 20%; etc, etc. The biggest difference is there will be more plays, so it is easier to give more players time.

Watching Temple last year that is exactly what happened: starting RB was in there most of the time. The backup probably got 20% of the series/carries and a young RB got 1 series each half.


Now the philosophy behind ATL. I do think it is debatable and can be viewed from different angles.

I think it is great for GT because it helps to get guys focused on development to get ATL and add depth to the team. GT has always struggled with depth. I remember when Groh said we only had 14 defenders that he could put into a game. It seems like we have 10 DL that will play against Clemson. Every year coaches talking about substituting at DL and it seems like it hardly every happened. If it does under Collins, then you know that ATL is working as intended. We didn’t need great depth under Johnson because he limited possessions; that will change starting on Thursday.

Bama and UGA need competition for starting because their backup 5-star recruits are basically ATL when they hit campus; they don’t need to do anything but show up so they have to make the competition about starting so that all that talent will work as hard as possible to get the starting spot. Also, because of the talent level, they don’t have to worry about depth as much as GT.

Like I said, that is what I think but I’m worried that there are some unintended negatives that I haven’t considered. I’ll wait to see how it works in practice before I consider it an unqualified success.
 
txsting said:
This ATL thinking would work better at an Alabama, where the second and third string guys are legitimately big time talents. Keep them motivated, keep them from transferring out, keep them improving. Tech just isn't there yet. If we play our third guy meaningful reps at any position it has to hurt the team. Interesting to watch this play out. It's going to be really annoying trying to figure out who is on the field at any given time.
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Do you really think that the coaching staff doesn't have a plan for this?
 
GT98 said:
Do you really think that the coaching staff doesn't have a plan for this?
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Yeah, Thacker said that basically they have planned by series who will be on the field. The primary reason is to make sure they don't have all freshmen on the field at the same time. For example and hypothetical: at LB, the always want to have Curry in the game when a true Freshman is in the game; they can play Swilling and Jackson or Thomas together but want Curry paired up with the Freshmen. (like I said, just hypothetical).

So what he was implying was something like this: 1st Series - A Group; 2nd Series - A Group; 3rd Series - A Group with freshman LB playing instead of Swilling; 4th Series - B Group; 5th Series - A Group with Freshman DE.
 
Jacketblind said:
Kind of thin at linebacker
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Not really, based on the 4-2-5 stated on the chart. If we slide into a 4-3 then one of the DEs can probably fill the LB role.

I'm just excited to see what our DBs can do when our CBs are face to face with WRs at the LOS.
 
I really like the practice concepts and efficiency, producing more quality reps should have positive results. It's analogous to compounding interest. The staff seems to do a great job of watching the player loads as well from Catapult...this should help ensure we're getting max effort while reducing injuries that result from over-stressed bodies giving way.

I find the position flexibility curious; specialization is the innovation that has driven modern football. To walk that back a little bit in the name of innovation, well I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out. Great innovations are driven by taking chances, and testing odd hypotheses; i'm not against challenging status quo. Try, measure, try again.

ATL concept itself seems at the surface to be a zero-sum game. If there are actually first, second, and third stringers internally, then the players know it too, and so there can be little motivational advantage. Our kids are far from dumb. Maybe Clemson doesn't have any idea who's going to play (and probably doesn't GAD), but USF and everyone else will know exactly what our true depth chart is by inferring it from game film and participation. However, if you can take this concept and brand it as innovation, and recruits and parents actually buy what you're selling, perhaps we can get our program to stand out from the noise.
 
ATL means game-ready. Any player listed as ATL can come in and play at any time and not be a step down from those they are replacing. Those BTL are out into a developmental program to get them ready.

CGC said the reason they do this is as soon as you label someone as a backup, they start preparing like a backup. ATL players know they can come in at any time and play - and they prepare that way.
 
33jacket said:
this is actually wrong. Collins runs two practices at the same time. You have to see it. It is literally live ball 11 on 11 at the same time two different games. Thats 44 kids getting live reps at once. As far back as I can remember that never happened anywhere I have seen. It was always the traditional everyone watch 22 kids play and wait your turn that you allude to above.

There is no way in hell, our starters are getting less reps than other teams. I bet we get between 1.5 and 2x the reps of any other team in football right now. I have never seen a practice like this.

When its live, there are no substitutions for backups. The backups are going live on another field at the same time so to speak. So everyone gets maximum reps.
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This. I'd be willing to bet that even the "backups" get more reps and "starters" on a traditional depth chart. CGC maximizes reps and practice time for ALL players. He hates wasted time.
 
GTWannaBee said:
ATL means game-ready. Any player listed as ATL can come in and play at any time and not be a step down from those they are replacing. Those BTL are out into a developmental program to get them ready.

CGC said the reason they do this is as soon as you label someone as a backup, they start preparing like a backup. ATL players know they can come in at any time and play - and they prepare that way.
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I think you are hearing what you want to hear and it can be confusing in sound bites. Collins but especially the OC and DC have added more nuance to what it means and how it will be used during a game.
 
33jacket said:
this is actually wrong. Collins runs two practices at the same time. You have to see it. It is literally live ball 11 on 11 at the same time two different games. Thats 44 kids getting live reps at once. As far back as I can remember that never happened anywhere I have seen. It was always the traditional everyone watch 22 kids play and wait your turn that you allude to above.

There is no way in hell, our starters are getting less reps than other teams. I bet we get between 1.5 and 2x the reps of any other team in football right now. I have never seen a practice like this.

When its live, there are no substitutions for backups. The backups are going live on another field at the same time so to speak. So everyone gets maximum reps.
Click to expand...
many times there is a 3rd group practicing indoors, as well.
 
GTWannaBee said:
ATL means game-ready. Any player listed as ATL can come in and play at any time and not be a step down from those they are replacing. Those BTL are out into a developmental program to get them ready.

CGC said the reason they do this is as soon as you label someone as a backup, they start preparing like a backup. ATL players know they can come in at any time and play - and they prepare that way.
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I think CGC addressed this in a recent interview. He stated that they measure "value above replacement" for each player, so they know and attempt to quantify how much of a step down any lower-rung player would represent. This is super cool if they can really measure that and trust it is somewhat real.

Now I'm going to speculate on one way the staff may use these VAR ratings. Where the drop offs at a given position are seen to be deep, that might be an opportunity to use a cross-trained player instead of "next man up". A player whose natural position is safety has a VAR rating at safety. The same player has a different (lower?) VAR rating at CB. Using that data, you can make an informed decision about who is really the next man up.
 
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