ACC goes all in - Keep 4 Team Playoff they say

aeromech said:
You can't possibly think Tulane is better off out of the SEC. :facepalm::faint:
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Let’s look at this from this angle; let’s say Tech decided to stay in the SEC in 1963. Your narrative assumes that Tech would dedicate monies, resources, and have an administration that was interested in knocking heads with the football factories in the league. Dodd fought for years to try and get a break from the Board of Regents and the administration, to little avail. The SEC didn’t start dominating college football for decades after that. The ESPN money stream didn’t begin until a few years ago. How many years of ass whippings do you think the powers that he would have tolerated before they decided to jump ship?
You seem to want to blame Dodd for all of Tech’s ills and believe that staying in the SEC would have been nirvana. You are making a lot of blind assumptions and saying the guy who made Tech a household name was basically an idiot
 
New Year’s Eve has proven a bad day for semi-final TV ratings. They should have played the Cotton Bowl semifinal at 1:30 on News Year Day, kept the Rose at 5, and kicked off the Orange at 8:30. Ratings would have been terrific. Families, couples, singles - many have plans for New Years’s Eve that do not invoke eight hours of watching college football, especially in the evening.
 
donsue said:
Let’s look at this from this angle; let’s say Tech decided to stay in the SEC in 1963. Your narrative assumes that Tech would dedicate monies, resources, and have an administration that was interested in knocking heads with the football factories in the league. Dodd fought for years to try and get a break from the Board of Regents and the administration, to little avail. The SEC didn’t start dominating college football for decades after that. The ESPN money stream didn’t begin until a few years ago. How many years of ass whippings do you think the powers that he would have tolerated before they decided to jump ship?
You seem to want to blame Dodd for all of Tech’s ills and believe that staying in the SEC would have been nirvana. You are making a lot of blind assumptions and saying the guy who made Tech a household name was basically an idiot
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No one is assuming being in the SEC would be Nirvana. And no where did imply Tech would dedicate monies or resources. What I am saying is that Dodd jumped out of the frying pan an into the fire. He didn't get his way, so he took his ball and went independent. Afterwards Dodd realized the mistake he made going independent and got us into the Metro Conference. We would be in Conference USA right now with Dodd's Luck. Fortunately, the people trying to fix Dodd's major screw up got us into a P5 conference. Your narrative continues to ignore what leaving the SEC did to recruiting and fan interest, even being the ACC hasn't fixed it, can you imagine if we were in C-USA today?

You are also wrong about the SEC not dominating college football until decades later. The SEC was a top football conference like the ACC was a top basketball conference. The SEC has been a dominate football conference for decades, they are just overwhelmingly dominate now. You make it sound like Dodd wanted out of the SEC because he was afraid of playing them. Which is it, we were going to be the Notre Dame of the south or we were scared of getting our caboose kicked in by those tough SEC schools?

"How many years of ass whippings do you think the powers that he would have tolerated before they decided to jump ship?"
I don't know what that means; but even with the Hill being what it is, I doubt we would have dropped below Vanderbilt or been abandoned by the Atlanta business community like we have been. We would have been a SEC team in the middle of Atlanta and it would have marketed itself. Dodd squandered all of that, maybe Dodd took GT to a pinnacle no one else could have; but he drove it into a dumpster by the 1970's and we have been struggling to recover from it ever since.
 
aeromech said:
No one is assuming being in the SEC would be Nirvana. And no where did imply Tech would dedicate monies or resources. What I am saying is that Dodd jumped out of the frying pan an into the fire. He didn't get his way, so he took his ball and went independent. Afterwards Dodd realized the mistake he made going independent and got us into the Metro Conference. We would be in Conference USA right now with Dodd's Luck. Fortunately, the people trying to fix Dodd's major screw up got us into a P5 conference. Your narrative continues to ignore what leaving the SEC did to recruiting and fan interest, even being the ACC hasn't fixed it, can you imagine if we were in C-USA today?

You are also wrong about the SEC not dominating college football until decades later. The SEC was a top football conference like the ACC was a top basketball conference. The SEC has been a dominate football conference for decades, they are just overwhelmingly dominate now. You make it sound like Dodd wanted out of the SEC because he was afraid of playing them. Which is it, we were going to be the Notre Dame of the south or we were scared of getting our caboose kicked in by those tough SEC schools?

"How many years of ass whippings do you think the powers that he would have tolerated before they decided to jump ship?"
I don't know what that means; but even with the Hill being what it is, I doubt we would have dropped below Vanderbilt or been abandoned by the Atlanta business community like we have been. We would have been a SEC team in the middle of Atlanta and it would have marketed itself. Dodd squandered all of that, maybe Dodd took GT to a pinnacle no one else could have; but he drove it into a dumpster by the 1970's and we have been struggling to recover from it ever since.
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I really don’t want to keep this debate up. I will say again you need to read more on the history of all this. You have a number of errors in your statements. Dodd wasn’t AD when Tech went into the Metro.
Look, we can assume what the future would have been under any scenario. But recruiting was getting very difficult for Dodd and Tech even while they were in the midst of the SEC. Why do you think he had to build relationships at prep schools and the like? And keep in mind Tech played Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee and like on a yearly basis long after it left the SEC. Had anyone known what the future would look like 60 years later would they have made the same moves?
I live in Tallahassee. Trust me, virtually every FSU person I know would love to jump at the chance to leave the ACC
 
vapspwi said:
Eh, if we’d stayed in the SEC we still would have turned into Vandy eventually. The game and our circumstances changed to our detriment, whether we were in the SEC, independent, or ACC. At least we got a title in ‘90 out of the deal

JRjr
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Yes and no. Tech is what it is because of choices Tech made. And those choices rarely aligned with competing with major programs in football. And that’s not changing any time soon, probably ever. Tech is more likely to disband football than invest in being competitive.
 
donsue said:
I really don’t want to keep this debate up. I will say again you need to read more on the history of all this. You have a number of errors in your statements. Dodd wasn’t AD when Tech went into the Metro.
Look, we can assume what the future would have been under any scenario. But recruiting was getting very difficult for Dodd and Tech even while they were in the midst of the SEC. Why do you think he had to build relationships at prep schools and the like? And keep in mind Tech played Auburn, Georgia, Tennessee and like on a yearly basis long after it left the SEC. Had anyone known what the future would look like 60 years later would they have made the same moves?
I live in Tallahassee. Trust me, virtually every FSU person I know would love to jump at the chance to leave the ACC
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Georgia Tech was a charter member of the Metro Conference in 1975 and Dodd retired as the AD in 1976. :dunno:
 
Leaving the SEC was a huge mistake. Also we should have been improving our facilities instead of waiting until Kim King got President Carter involved. An SEC school in the heart of Atlanta with a tradition of winning and top notch facilities would not have a problem recruiting. Leaving the SEC was DUMB!
 
GoldenIsle said:
Leaving the SEC was a huge mistake. Also we should have been improving our facilities instead of waiting until Kim King got President Carter involved. An SEC school in the heart of Atlanta with a tradition of winning and top notch facilities would not have a problem recruiting. Leaving the SEC was DUMB!
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I do not understand why we did not have the funds to upgrade our facilities during the fifties and sixties. The football program should have been very profitable during that period.
 
BrentwoodJacket said:
I do not understand why we did not have the funds to upgrade our facilities during the fifties and sixties. The football program should have been very profitable during that period.
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No one put that kind of money into facilities back then, not even the SEC programs. Grant Field was one of the biggest stadiums in the South. This is the heart of my argument; the landscape was so entirely different then it is like asking a guy driving a Model T to anticipate someone walking on the Moon. There was way more to it than just Dodd getting pissed and taking his ball and going home. Was it the right decision to leave the SEC? Maybe not. But as I said earlier, Tech has been through 10 coaches and 60 years since all that occurred. There has been ample time to change things for the better.
 
donsue said:
No one put that kind of money into facilities back then, not even the SEC programs. Grant Field was one of the biggest stadiums in the South. This is the heart of my argument; the landscape was so entirely different then it is like asking a guy driving a Model T to anticipate someone walking on the Moon. There was way more to it than just Dodd getting pissed and taking his ball and going home. Was it the right decision to leave the SEC? Maybe not. But as I said earlier, Tech has been through 10 coaches and 60 years since all that occurred. There has been ample time to change things for the better.
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I get that the landscape was entirely different; but Dodd completely miscalculated when he went independent. It was a miscalculation and mistake of colossal proportion. Once Dodd realized what he had done to us years later he tried to get us into a conference. Maybe he knew the SEC wouldn't take us back or maybe his pride wouldn't allow him to go back begging to get back in; so he joined the Metro Conference. Weaver saw the Metro Conference as little league and a continued downward spiral and got us into the best conference he could, the ACC. I am sure Weaver would have rather joined the SEC and Homer Rice would have wanted to move to the SEC as well. Getting back in the SEC is not something you can snap your fingers and make happen. We've been talking about getting back in the SEC for over 30 years and they don't want us because we have nothing to offer. Dodd drove us out of the national attention we had, and left us in the dumpster, not intentionally; but that is the reality. We really are in better shape than Dodd left us; but not as good as when we were in the SEC by your own admission.
 
aeromech said:
I get that the landscape was entirely different; but Dodd completely miscalculated when he went independent. It was a miscalculation and mistake of colossal proportion. Once Dodd realized what he had done to us years later he tried to get us into a conference. Maybe he knew the SEC wouldn't take us back or maybe his pride wouldn't allow him to go back begging to get back in; so he joined the Metro Conference. Weaver saw the Metro Conference as little league and a continued downward spiral and got us into the best conference he could, the ACC. I am sure Weaver would have rather joined the SEC and Homer Rice would have wanted to move to the SEC as well. Getting back in the SEC is not something you can snap your fingers and make happen. We've been talking about getting back in the SEC for over 30 years and they don't want us because we have nothing to offer. Dodd drove us out of the national attention we had, and left us in the dumpster, not intentionally; but that is the reality. We really are in better shape than Dodd left us; but not as good as when we were in the SEC by your own admission.
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I thought we almost got back into the SEC and Bama flipped on us at the last minute.
 
BrentwoodJacket said:
I thought we almost got back into the SEC and Bama flipped on us at the last minute.
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This guy says it was the Mississippi schools payback for Dodd being an ass.

According to legend, Dodd felt that Georgia Tech was too good to have to travel to places like Oxford and Starkville to play football games, so he never would agree to play the Mississippi schools.

From the history that has been presented above, it now becomes obvious why the Mississippi schools would block Georgia Tech, even when Bear Bryant was willing to give in.
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GEORGIA TECH LEAVES THE SEC (cecilbuffington.com)

Bama flipping regarding the 140 rule was part of the reason we left, I think you can find several sources that confirm that.
 
aeromech said:
This guy says it was the Mississippi schools payback for Dodd being an ass.



GEORGIA TECH LEAVES THE SEC (cecilbuffington.com)

Bama flipping regarding the 140 rule was part of the reason we left, I think you can find several sources that confirm that.
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My understanding was it took at least three no votes to keep us out. It seems like either Bama or Auburn voted against us. I never understood why we scheduled Ole Miss recently given this history.
 
manjano mdudu said:
likely has the best team in it each year and determines the champ without extending the season significantly, a very important issue when attrition in a league that cannot bring in free agents is considered, on top of the somewhat relevant point that these are for the most part unpaid young people. Creating a 16 or 17 game season in a college format brings along a lot of issues.
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Does extending the season significantly or somewhat really matter? How do the Div. 2 and Div. 3 handle this?
 
coit said:
In another post you suggested that this would limit ESPN's influence. With this plan, the SEC could get 3 teams in, right?
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I guess in the theoretical they could. But the big thing is this limits influence on seeding. Top 6 slots would be seeded according to overall conference performance. That takes espn out of the equation. It also punishes weak leagues and provides encouragement for leagues to get better.

I guess seeds 7 and 8 could be both SEC teams, but that seems like it would be an unlikely prospect. You could also cap playoff participation at 2 schools per conference (champ+1 qualifier)
 
savbandjacket said:
I guess in the theoretical they could. But the big thing is this limits influence on seeding. Top 6 slots would be seeded according to overall conference performance. That takes espn out of the equation. It also punishes weak leagues and provides encouragement for leagues to get better.

I guess seeds 7 and 8 could be both SEC teams, but that seems like it would be an unlikely prospect. You could also cap playoff participation at 2 schools per conference (champ+1 qualifier)
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savbandjacket said:
I guess in the theoretical they could. But the big thing is this limits influence on seeding. Top 6 slots would be seeded according to overall conference performance. That takes espn out of the equation. It also punishes weak leagues and provides encouragement for leagues to get better.

I guess seeds 7 and 8 could be both SEC teams, but that seems like it would be an unlikely prospect. You could also cap playoff participation at 2 schools per conference (champ+1 qualifier)
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The 4 team argument vs 8 really comes down to 2 things, in my mind.

For: doesn't it seem right that as a P5 Conf Champ you should have the right to compete for the Natty? Every other sport does.

Against: Thus far, the average Seed 1 vs Seed 4 game has been an average margin of just over 20 points. What's 1 vs 8 going to be, 35 point margins?
 
savbandjacket said:
You could also cap playoff participation at 2 schools per conference (champ+1 qualifier)
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In that scenario, UGA wins the 2018 natty since Bama would not have made it perhaps? Assuming that the two SECCG participants would go and Bama left in the cold.
 
coit said:
In that scenario, UGA wins the 2018 natty since Bama would not have made it perhaps? Assuming that the two SECCG participants would go and Bama left in the cold.
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Not necessarily. But as much as I’d like to screw over uga, it’s impossible to design a system that will do that every year.
 
savbandjacket said:
Not necessarily. But as much as I’d like to screw over uga, it’s impossible to design a system that will do that every year.
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Not impossible. If you or I were placed in charge of the selections they would never get a bid. Or at least that is true in my case.
 
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