AJC: Brent Key has the players to win in ACC

Akinji07 said:
I think there’s a disconnect between what IBB is saying and what you guys are understanding. He’s saying Collins recruited some star power and this will go a long way in winning immediately with decent coaching. What you guys are hearing is Collins was a great coach. We can’t grade Key on recruiting just yet, he picked up some decent talent in the transfer portal but it’s hard to recruit a great class when you spent most of the year as an interim. This doesn’t take away from Key’s leadership or coaching ability, it just backs up the AJC prediction that we will win bigly this year with those Collins recruits and Key’s leadership. It also doesn’t mean bring Collins back.
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You better stop being all logical before some start a drunken binge rant on you
 
Akinji07 said:
I think there’s a disconnect between what IBB is saying and what you guys are understanding. He’s saying Collins recruited some star power and this will go a long way in winning immediately with decent coaching. What you guys are hearing is Collins was a great coach. We can’t grade Key on recruiting just yet, he picked up some decent talent in the transfer portal but it’s hard to recruit a great class when you spent most of the year as an interim. This doesn’t take away from Key’s leadership or coaching ability, it just backs up the AJC prediction that we will win bigly this year with those Collins recruits and Key’s leadership. It also doesn’t mean bring Collins back.
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Part (but not all, you're right about that) of the back and forth is on whether or not the "star power" Collins was able to recruit is actually still playing for GT in 2023. Plenty of derailment though.
 
Akinji07 said:
I think there’s a disconnect between what IBB is saying and what you guys are understanding. He’s saying Collins recruited some star power and this will go a long way in winning immediately with decent coaching. What you guys are hearing is Collins was a great coach. We can’t grade Key on recruiting just yet, he picked up some decent talent in the transfer portal but it’s hard to recruit a great class when you spent most of the year as an interim. This doesn’t take away from Key’s leadership or coaching ability, it just backs up the AJC prediction that we will win bigly this year with those Collins recruits and Key’s leadership. It also doesn’t mean bring Collins back.
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No, he posted the "247 Team Talent Index" as proof that our 9-4 roster in 2016 was less talented than our 5-7 roster in 2022, then mocked all the engineers on the board for ignoring data because agenda.

Hence, I mock the silly little man and his talent horoscope.
 
Flywheel said:
No, he posted the "247 Team Talent Index" as proof that our 9-4 roster in 2016 was less talented than our 5-7 roster in 2022, then mocked all the engineers on the board for ignoring data because agenda.

Hence, I mock the silly little man and his talent horoscope.
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Yes ok but we already discussed on the board that the problem with our teams 2019-2022 hasn’t been talent deficiency but outright terrible coaching. To me that’s more of a credit to CPJ than talking öööö about the 2016 team.
 
Akinji07 said:
Yes ok but we already discussed on the board that the problem with our teams 2019-2022 hasn’t been talent deficiency but outright terrible coaching. To me that’s more of a credit to CPJ than talking öööö about the 2016 team.
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Either way, Geoff got 3 wins with PJ's recruits and... wait for it... 3 wins with his own recruits. In trying to say our talent has gone up there's just no "there" there.
 
Flywheel said:
No, he posted the "247 Team Talent Index" as proof that our 9-4 roster in 2016 was less talented than our 5-7 roster in 2022, then mocked all the engineers on the board for ignoring data because agenda.

Hence, I mock the silly little man and his talent horoscope.
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and why does that hurt you so much? Tulane won 11 games while TAMU won 4, does that mean Tulane was more talented TAMU this season? Hell no
 
Flywheel said:
Either way, Geoff got 3 wins with PJ's recruits and... wait for it... 3 wins with his own recruits. In trying to say our talent has gone up there's just no "there" there.
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Raw talent vs coached talent. 2016 coached talent was much better than 2022. 2016 team was a better team than 2022 team. But that doesn’t mean 2022 raw talent can’t be better. It’s like Miami recruiting top 10 classes and then not even coming close to ACCCG every year. Or Texas. We saw a better coached Tech team with the same players win more games already.
 
I still think we're largely confusing "talent" with "system." I don't know that the current athletes are far more talented in most cases, but just fit the new system better. You take good talent and put it in a system their talent is not suited to, and you often will get poor performance. To that end, one test of a really good coach is to take talent recruited for another system and coach them to perform well in your new system. That takes a real understanding of talent on-hand and how that talent should influence play-calling. I saw highly talented players on the field all through CPJ's tenure as HBC. The talent we have now is not so much "better" as it is "different," IMPO.
 
Flywheel said:
No, he posted the "247 Team Talent Index" as proof that our 9-4 roster in 2016 was less talented than our 5-7 roster in 2022, then mocked all the engineers on the board for ignoring data because agenda.

Hence, I mock the silly little man and his talent horoscope.
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He is 100% right. Take the 2016 roster vs the 2022 roster, give them both the same coaching, and the 2022 team wins. That is the definition of "talent." It doesn't mean which team played better.
 
GoGATech said:
Idk. He seemed to be able to consistently lose with whatever he had.
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When I consider how bad it had to have been, I imagine Pastner's no-contact practices at the start of 2020, except for four years instead.
 
gtchief said:
When I consider how bad it had to have been, I imagine Pastner's no-contact practices at the start of 2020, except for four years instead.
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Key kind of implied that we did have non-contact practice during game week the whole time CGC was coach.
 
GoGATech said:
He is 100% right. Take the 2016 roster vs the 2022 roster, give them both the same coaching, and the 2022 team wins. That is the definition of "talent." It doesn't mean which team played better.
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That's entirely speculation. Would the 2022 roster, if coached to run the option by CPJ like the 2016 team was, outperform them? It's possible, but not necessarily likely. The only basis for that is 247 talent composite, but those numbers are highly flawed in and of themselves. Tons of highly rated "talent" ends up being a total bust in college. If a 4 star gets beat out for the starting spot by a 3 star or 2 star, was the 4 star really more talented, or just overrated? Was the 3 star underrated?

Would the current receivers be able to block better than the receivers then? We have no idea. Maybe Paul recruited receivers specifically for their blocking ability and not as much for pass catching because it wasn't as big in his offense.

Would the current OL be able to move as quickly and cut block as effectively as the 2016 line? Probably not, they seem to be a little bigger and slower.

Would the current RB group be able to out run and outblock the 2016 RB group?

Y'all want to treat talent like it's just a line and everybody falls somewhere on the line, but it's not. Everyone has different skillsets, different strengths and weaknesses, and depending on what the team needs, one guy may be better than another. Some guys have really soft hands, some guys are really fast, some have good awareness or a really high understanding of the game. Some guys have a high motor and go 110% every play. Almost nobody does everything well.
 
he "could take his'n and beat your'n, then take your'n and beat his'n."

-Bum Phillips about Bear Bryant
 
OmnipoTech said:
That's entirely speculation. Would the 2022 roster, if coached to run the option by CPJ like the 2016 team was, outperform them? It's possible, but not necessarily likely. The only basis for that is 247 talent composite, but those numbers are highly flawed in and of themselves. Tons of highly rated "talent" ends up being a total bust in college. If a 4 star gets beat out for the starting spot by a 3 star or 2 star, was the 4 star really more talented, or just overrated? Was the 3 star underrated?

Would the current receivers be able to block better than the receivers then? We have no idea. Maybe Paul recruited receivers specifically for their blocking ability and not as much for pass catching because it wasn't as big in his offense.

Would the current OL be able to move as quickly and cut block as effectively as the 2016 line? Probably not, they seem to be a little bigger and slower.

Would the current RB group be able to out run and outblock the 2016 RB group?

Y'all want to treat talent like it's just a line and everybody falls somewhere on the line, but it's not. Everyone has different skillsets, different strengths and weaknesses, and depending on what the team needs, one guy may be better than another. Some guys have really soft hands, some guys are really fast, some have good awareness or a really high understanding of the game. Some guys have a high motor and go 110% every play. Almost nobody does everything well.
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But is it really speculation? I don't think it's just a coincidence that 2 of CPJ's best 3 years were 08 and 09 when he had arguably the best talent of his tenure. He didn't recruit those guys specifically for his system. Do you really think he could've won 9 and 11 games in year one and two if he had talent more on par with what he had in the latter years? I don't.
 
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