All Time Tech Starting Lineup

[GoldZ]

I was in elementary school when I saw Billy Lothridge play. I was in my forties when I saw Joe Hamilton play. The only foolish thing to say in this argument is that the one you pick as best is the only choice. Lothridge was a phenomenal athlete. He scrambled well, ran the option well, and threw well. Hamilton was also an incredible athlete. He mastered the reads in a very complex offense by his sophomore year. Pay your money and pick your choice, but then don't act like your choice is the only reasonable one. I go back and forth on which one I think was the best. Anyone who wants to argue for Shawn Jones or Wade Mitchell isn't stupid either.

Excellent post '77! Anyone who watches the '90 UVA and Nebraska games who doesn't rate Jones as an equal to Hamilton isn't paying attention. Shawn was also bigger, stronger, faster, and more durable. Also anyone who has watched the YJs since the 70's who doesn't think ELI isn't our best RB since then, imo has a strange metric.

 

[stinger78]

The fact that Lothridge was able to star at more than one position is proof enough that the game has changed and players cannot be compared. There is no spot for "best football player". Just because a player played multiple other positions doesnt make them great at any.

Lothridge was runner up to Roger Staubach in the Heisman vote. I'd say he did pretty well at one position.

 

[mack]

Maybe some of us are doing the apples to oranges comparison in our heads making these lists. I had Eddie Lee on my list.

Just looking at some of these guys though, they just aren't built for the game today. Billy Shaw was 6'2, 258 as a PRO guard. He may be my favorite statistic of all GT sports though (aside from Cumberland) as being the only player in the pro football HOF without ever playing in the NFL (AFL only).

Larry Stallings probably had the size to keep up with todays game. Maybe not the speed.

I can't even find measurements on billy teas. Hardemon ran hard but you can't compare his speed with the burners of today.

Just look at the progression of 100m times to demonstrate the difference. In the 40s and 50s the world record was 10.1 - 10.2 seconds. In 1964 the world record was still over 10 seconds. Now it's down to nearly 9.5.

In terms of size, average NFL QB is over 6'3. It was an inch shorter and 16 pounds less in 1970.

The average running back is actually shorter today, but is 8 pounds heavier on average and much faster. Fullbacks are an average of over 20 pounds higher. Wide receivers weigh about 10 pounds more, while TEs are a whopping 25 pounds more.

Biggest changes by far are on the lines though. The averages have gone up 50+ pounds across the board. The exception is defensive ends, who have only gained 13 pounds but are infinitely faster now than they were 40 years ago.

Relatively speaking, the guys you mentioned were meaner and tougher than anyone around back then. But our nutrition and weightroom technology is so much better than it was 40-50 years ago its hard to compare. Players like Calvin Johnson, Dwyer, Bey Bey, Nesbitt simply didn't exist back then.

As I stated in another post on this,the guys I mentioned could speed wise keep up.I can attest that Hardemen and Teas could run fast or Dodd woudnt have signed them.Yes if I am sending a Billy Shaw vs a tackle today Shaw would lose.My point has been the talent in the sixties and fifties was very good and if and of course,we cant make this work,but if the guys had the opportunity to work out,train and weight lifte etc I think it would be a equal match.Whole when you mentioned Dwyer want you to remember a dude from LSU that was faster than JD ,as big and certainly faster,remember Billy Cannon.My point is there were folks in this era who could play with those today.Still think it boils down to apples and oranges but aint it fun to bring up names most young guys have never heard of.

 

[bellyseries]

Wow, Billy Cannon.
Remember Joe Don Looney?

 

[mack]

Wow, Billy Cannon.
Remember Joe Don Looney?

Joe Don was a hoss period but man was he crazy.Cannon was a animal period.Could run the hundered in nine five,bech press three hundered pounds,225 lbs and play safety and Paul Dietzel said he was the most vicious athlete he ever coached and he coached Jimmy Taylor.

 

[The V]

Since there was a post of the Dodd era plays, then lets place the players by Coaches:
Dodd, Carson, Pepper, Curry, Ross, Old what the F*#@ Lewis, O'Leary, Chan, and Johnson. There will be some cross over, but that way a lot of the players from the 50-60's get mentioned. Heck, I grew up near Baughn and Morris.

 

[mack]

since there was a post of the dodd era plays, then lets place the players by coaches:
Dodd, carson, pepper, curry, ross, old what the f*#@ lewis, o'leary, chan, and johnson. There will be some cross over, but that way a lot of the players from the 50-60's get mentioned. Heck, i grew up near baughn and morris.

now we are talking,this will or should fix this thread .yes we have crossovers but at least we are rating eras and coaches.good job.

 

[mack]

Since there was a post of the Dodd era plays, then lets place the players by Coaches:
Dodd, Carson, Pepper, Curry, Ross, Old what the F*#@ Lewis, O'Leary, Chan, and Johnson. There will be some cross over, but that way a lot of the players from the 50-60's get mentioned. Heck, I grew up near Baughn and Morris.

Never grew up close to them but can remember Maxie B and Billy Shaw at a bb game on tech campus and the Little Indian ,Billy Williamson was fooling with Shaw and Shaw grabbed him and cradled him in his arms like a little baby.Now Billy Williamson was maybe 160 and what it taught me was he was tough as nails.Shaw proved to me he was strong as a bull.Being about 13 years of age it didnt take long for me to see that college athletes was full of strong men and tough knots.Shaw and Maxie were about 235 or so and yet Billy Williamson played both sides for Dodd on Saturday.Tough group of guys.

 

[flushed 01]

Oldfoggy, Hamilton was our best QB ever. Now the reason I put more modern guys ahead of some of the older dudes, is quite simple. Football has evolved and so has its athletes and guys that played in the 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's would have a hard time breaking the two deep in today's game. FACT!

I actually thought about putting Injun Joe Guyon in our backfield and I also briefly considered Castleberry, but he only played one year inspite of all the fanfare.

That said, I don't ever want to hear some old Tech guy tell me that Lotheridge was better than Joe Hamilton. I've seen film of Lotheridge and if you asked most old timers who don't want to show off their historical bias of old players, they would say Hamilton was better. Hamilton statistically destroys Lotheridge not to mention that Hamilton led more Game winning drives than most any other QB in Tech sports history. So pipe down.

I have watched them all since about 1957, Joe Hamilton is the best QB i have ever seen in a GT uniform.

 

[BarrelORum]

Did you see Lothridge play his entire career,answer this since for all purposes there are many holes in the argument about Lothridge.First they played only ten games and second with the run game tech had they didnt put it in the air as much and of course you remember the cast Suggs had ,he had no choice but to throw more.
I saw both play in far tougher leagues than today.Lothridge was in a very strong SEC and Lit Joe was in ACC.Lothridge seemed to get it done when Tech needed something and so did Joe.I give the pass to Joe ,the run to Billy ,leadership a tie and attitude slightly to Billy.Sorry to argue as tech guys are wont to do but you had to be there to appreciate Billy.It aint just a old man vs a young man its what it was fifty years ago vs the last ten or so years.Both ran different offenses,Joe was wide open with bombs and Billy the middle pass and conservative.Will say have not seen as good a one as little Joe since Billy the Cool.

So you give the run to Joe when he had more rushing yards in a season and a career than any Tech QB before him.

 

[flushed 01]

So you give the run to Joe when he had more rushing yards in a season and a career than any Tech QB before him.

Here is the main difference, the speed now in college football due to emergence in the early 70,s of the black athlete changed the game. The GT players in the 50,s 60s, would look like their feet was in concrete today. Hamilton much better.

 

[mack]

Here is the main difference, the speed now in college football due to emergence in the early 70,s of the black athlete changed the game. The GT players in the 50,s 60s, would look like their feet was in concrete today. Hamilton much better.

Whoa you evidently were not around when tech had the backfield in the early sixties of Auer,SNow,Wininger etc and all could break ten flat.Dodd never had a slow team by any eras standards.Nope sorry but little Joe no better than Billy Cool,guess you had to be there to see both of them in person.Both were great however.

 

[BuzzMD]

Whoa you evidently were not around when tech had the backfield in the early sixties of Auer,SNow,Wininger etc and all could break ten flat.Dodd never had a slow team by any eras standards.Nope sorry but little Joe no better than Billy Cool,guess you had to be there to see both of them in person.Both were great however.

Mack, they could all break ten flat? Wow, that is amazing. Especially considering 10 was broken for the first time in competition in 1968 by Jim Hines.

 

[mack]

Mack, they could all break ten flat? Wow, that is amazing. Especially considering 10 was broken for the first time in competition in 1968 by Jim Hines.

Doc,ten flat for the 100 yd dash which then was the scale folks used for speed,no forty yard dash and no meters just 100yards.Also while I am at it add little Jimmy Brown and Craig Baynam to the mix,they too could fly.

Not taking anything away from the speed of the athletes now but dont for a moment think all Dodd had was plowhorses.Sorry I was not clearer on the measuring standard used in sixties but by the way the 100 was 9.3 then and Ole Billy Cannon could do it in 9.5 and he weighed 225.

 

[oldfoggy]

Don't give up Mack. Tech football history did not begin when these young twerps were born. They don't understand how great Dodd's teams were. Dodd recruited guy who were fast and could carry a ball. It was not all pass as it is today. Even the Bear did not like the pass, he said only three things could happen when you pass the ball and two of em are bad.

 

[GEETEELEE]

Don't give up Mack. Tech football history did not begin when these young twerps were born. They don't understand how great Dodd's teams were. Dodd recruited guy who were fast and could carry a ball. It was not all pass as it is today. Even the Bear did not like the pass, he said only three things could happen when you pass the ball and two of em are bad.

Was that Bear, or Lombardi?

 

[flushed 01]

Was that Bear, or Lombardi?

I think it was that lard ass Woody Hayes

 

[DeepSnap]

Actually, it was Darrell Royal at Texas.

Was that Bear, or Lombardi?

 

[BarrelORum]

Doc,ten flat for the 100 yd dash which then was the scale folks used for speed,no forty yard dash and no meters just 100yards.Also while I am at it add little Jimmy Brown and Craig Baynam to the mix,they too could fly.

Not taking anything away from the speed of the athletes now but dont for a moment think all Dodd had was plowhorses.Sorry I was not clearer on the measuring standard used in sixties but by the way the 100 was 9.3 then and Ole Billy Cannon could do it in 9.5 and he weighed 225.

:hsughcool:cough cough... Bull ****...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_yard_dash

 

[BarrelORum]

Don't give up Mack. Tech football history did not begin when these young twerps were born. They don't understand how great Dodd's teams were. Dodd recruited guy who were fast and could carry a ball. It was not all pass as it is today. Even the Bear did not like the pass, he said only three things could happen when you pass the ball and two of em are bad.

Listen, nobody said it did start when we were born (1972 for me). Most of us are as students of the history and tradition at GT as some of you old timers. I've read a lot of books and stories on Heisman and Dodd and like you embrace that tradition and history. Guys like Injun Joe Guyon, Clint Castleberry, George Morris, Bill Curry, Randy Rhino, Jeff Ford, Billy Lothridge, etc. etc. on down the line were all part of that fabric we are so proud of.

But the bottom line is those players then would have a really hard time making a dent on the starting lineup today. Eric Wilcox has the record for most tackles in one game in 1967 with 38 and he was a 6-0" 225 lb DE. And listing him at 6-0" is generous as I've met the man and I'm 6-1".

If you honestly believe that by and large most of those players would have been able to do the same thing in this day and age, well, you're just not being honest about the improvements in athleticism in the players over the last 40 years. Very few if ANY would be able to break in the starting lineup.

The fact that Joe Hamilton all 5-7" 175 lbs could come in and do what he did because he was a special athlete both physically and mentally and NOT be considered your top QB, totally strips you of any credibility and displays a bias that is predicated on stubborness about "your era". You take a kid like Dwyer and place him on one of Dodd's squads in the 50's and he would be considered as legendary to the college game as Jim Brown.

That's not saying those guys were not good. Its all relative. They were greats during their time. However, their results were based on playing on average a lower quality of athlete. So when a guy like Hamilton has more than 5 TIMES the stats of a Lothridge AND played against a higher quality of athlete, well, Im sorry, but he's better.

The only argument I've heard is "Well, I saw both of them play and Lothridge was better". That's completely subjective because you were watching one guy go up against a lesser quality athletic opponent, and if you CANNOT admit that to be the absolute truth, you have no business rendering an opinion on this in the first place because you know nothing about the game of football.

The ONLY credit I will give the older football athletes is they were far more tougher than todays players as they had to endure injuries and a scrappier form of football. But that doesn't mean they were better athletically, they weren't.