Are you a 39%er?

GT flunkout said:
Framing it in terms of empathy is disingenuous and only demonizes others. None of what we are doing today is to protect the vulnerable, including old folks. Old folks die when they get sick, especially with comorbidities. In 2017, 61k people died of flu. Over 50k of those were people 65+, yet no one was clamoring for mandatory flu vaccines for everybody in an effort to save old people. Is 61k a large number? Not sure yet. Could be. Trying to frame this in terms of empathy for the elderly would mean never going to sporting events or mass gatherings ever again.

We are only doing this to protect overloading our healthcare system. Period. As soon as we have some assurance that we won't have to warehouse sick people in tents in Central Park, life will return.

FWIW I'm in a high-risk category.
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THE point of not overwhelming the hospitals is to save lives. Most of those saved will be vulnerable or over 65. Soylent Green approaches make for a very slippery slope.
The lack of empathy for the elderly claim, stems from.... unnecessarily killing them off. Geez, one might think some here never had a parent or grandparent.
Someone very wise once said wtte: You can judge a people/nation by how they treat their very young and very old. Me thinks we have some work to do on this.
 
GoldZ said:
THE point of not overwhelming the hospitals is to save lives. Most of those saved will be vulnerable or over 65. Soylent Green approaches make for a very slippery slope.
The lack of empathy for the elderly claim, stems from.... unnecessarily killing them off. Geez, one might think some here never had a parent or grandparent.
Someone very wise once said wtte: You can judge a people/nation by how they treat their very young and very old. Me thinks we have some work to do on this.
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Thoroughly agree!
 
GoldZ said:
THE point of not overwhelming the hospitals is to save lives. Most of those saved will be vulnerable or over 65. Soylent Green approaches make for a very slippery slope.
The lack of empathy for the elderly claim, stems from.... unnecessarily killing them off. Geez, one might think some here never had a parent or grandparent.
Someone very wise once said wtte: You can judge a people/nation by how they treat their very young and very old. Me thinks we have some work to do on this.
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THE point of this thread is not should the nation have shut down this month to to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed; but should the nation remained shut down through at least the fall to hopefully minimize to the greatest extent possible any vulnerable person ever being exposed to a virus. Now that hospitals are not being overwhelmed as was predicted, and in fact this week hospitals have started laying people off and emergency hospitals are being dismantled after not receiving a single patient; should we be planning to live more normal lives in the coming months, or planning to shelter in place the rest of the year? Is shelter in place to be the new normal for the nation? I can guarantee you we will always have people who are venerable to the latest cold and flu virus. I can also guarantee you that each and everyone of you who has a mother who is still living (mine is in her 80's), that she is going to die; and likely within a few decades after you will die.

Interesting you point out how a nation treats their very young and very old. During the current crisis courts have ruled that abortion is an essential service, and schools have been closed for the rest of the year, that's how we treat our young.
 
GoldZ said:
THE point of not overwhelming the hospitals is to save lives. Most of those saved will be vulnerable or over 65. Soylent Green approaches make for a very slippery slope.
The lack of empathy for the elderly claim, stems from.... unnecessarily killing them off. Geez, one might think some here never had a parent or grandparent.
Someone very wise once said wtte: You can judge a people/nation by how they treat their very young and very old. Me thinks we have some work to do on this.
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Its like you dont understand both sides of this at all.

Old people can hole up plenty safe without shutting down the whole country. Old people still got income. This is really ööööing over the lives of a shitload of Americans. You gotta be a selfish as öööö person to think "I don't give a öööö about 16 million unemployeds (and many, many millions more underemployed) as long as we dont increase grandma's chance of dying by 0.1%" .

Overwhelming the hospitals is a fine line. So far, that does not seem to be occurring, is it? Nobody actually knows if we wouldve been Korea or Italy if we had gone less overboard.

But the idea that not shutting down the whole ööööing country and putting 16 million on the breadlines = treating your very old poorly is a bullshit argument. You have any idea what this is gonna do to SS and the fed budget in general? Cause we are about to be forced to yank some of that SS them old people care about if every virus shuts down the economy. SS is a ponzi scheme that cant take half the country not working.

I do hope we continue some of these good ideas like old people only store hours long after coronavirus. That would help with the flu and stuff.
 
coit said:
Stay safe, Wreck Em! Those folks are lucky to have you.
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Thanks! It just puts a whole new perspective on things for me.
Obviously I love Tech football and want it back. But caring for the elderly is more important to me if it came to it, and I'd give up a year if even just one grandfather or grandmother got some extra time to be with loved ones.
 
Wreck Em said:
Thanks! It just puts a whole new perspective on things for me.
Obviously I love Tech football and want it back. But caring for the elderly is more important to me if it came to it, and I'd give up a year if even just one grandfather or grandmother got some extra time to be with loved ones.
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Interesting. Which brings up the point that they arent allowed to be with their loved ones. Birthdays going by uncelebrated. Marriages not happening (many bullets dodged). Funerals unattended. No parties, family dinners, vacations, family reunions. What good is it to continue to live if you are holed up alone with your TP hoard?
 
aeromech said:
THE point of this thread is not should the nation have shut down this month to to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed; but should the nation remained shut down through at least the fall to hopefully minimize to the greatest extent possible any vulnerable person ever being exposed to a virus. Now that hospitals are not being overwhelmed as was predicted, and in fact this week hospitals have started laying people off and emergency hospitals are being dismantled after not receiving a single patient; should we be planning to live more normal lives in the coming months, or planning to shelter in place the rest of the year? Is shelter in place to be the new normal for the nation? I can guarantee you we will always have people who are venerable to the latest cold and flu virus. I can also guarantee you that each and everyone of you who has a mother who is still living (mine is in her 80's), that she is going to die; and likely within a few decades after you will die.

Interesting you point out how a nation treats their very young and very old. During the current crisis courts have ruled that abortion is an essential service, and schools have been closed for the rest of the year, that's how we treat our young.
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Since your f-ing brilliant premise is, we are all going to die---we will always have vulnerable people---the hospitals are not being overwhelmed (wonder why that is), why don't we just Jim Jones ourselves to go to heaven right now and skip the difficulties life presents ? It's incredible to me how dipshit dumb people associated with Tech can be, which is evidenced by your assumption that I believe we should remain in shut down mode through the Fall.
 
GTCrew said:
Its like you dont understand both sides of this at all.

Old people can hole up plenty safe without shutting down the whole country. Old people still got income. This is really ööööing over the lives of a ööööload of Americans. You gotta be a selfish as öööö person to think "I don't give a öööö about 16 million unemployeds (and many, many millions more underemployed) as long as we dont increase grandma's chance of dying by 0.1%" .

Overwhelming the hospitals is a fine line. So far, that does not seem to be occurring, is it? Nobody actually knows if we wouldve been Korea or Italy if we had gone less overboard.

But the idea that not shutting down the whole ööööing country and putting 16 million on the breadlines = treating your very old poorly is a bullshit argument. You have any idea what this is gonna do to SS and the fed budget in general? Cause we are about to be forced to yank some of that SS them old people care about if every virus shuts down the economy. SS is a ponzi scheme that cant take half the country not working.

I do hope we continue some of these good ideas like old people only store hours long after coronavirus. That would help with the flu and stuff.
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It's very likely that I have a much greater grasp of the economic ramifications of our current brief shutdown than you. Your .1% comment is all the evidence required to know how weak sauced your rant is. And this reply is from someone who thinks, no make that knows full well, that shutting down long term is retarded.
If it's confusing to you whether we would be S.Korea or Italy without this brief shutdown, then how is it possible you are connected to Tech in anyway whatsoever ?
I didn't say you didn't give a shit about 16 million unemployeds etc., especially since I have been responsible for several thousands of peoples jobs over many years in corporate life, and if that isn't clear to you. then....KMA crew.
 
GoldZ said:
Since your f-ing brilliant premise is, we are all going to die---we will always have vulnerable people---the hospitals are not being overwhelmed (wonder why that is), why don't we just Jim Jones ourselves to go to heaven right now and skip the difficulties life presents ? It's incredible to me how dipshit dumb people associated with Tech can be, which is evidenced by your assumption that I believe we should remain in shut down mode through the Fall.
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Holy reductio ad absurdum batman?

Dude. WTF? Why leave the ööööing hospital with your baby and put the little shit at risk? Everyone should live out their maximum lifespan in a climate controlled bubble eating optimally nutritious smoothies. Like ööööing goldfish or zoo animals.

Life is risk. Life is on hold for fear of dying. Thats not a life at all. Life without birthday parties and playdates and school and proms and graduation and weddings and dinner and a movie and window shopping and sports and friends and reunions and and and...
 
GoldZ said:
It's very likely that I have a much greater grasp of the economic ramifications of our current brief shutdown than you. Your .1% comment is all the evidence required to know how weak sauced your rant is. And this reply is from someone who thinks, no make that knows full well, that shutting down long term is retarded.
If it's confusing to you whether we would be S.Korea or Italy without this brief shutdown, then how is it possible you are connected to Tech in anyway whatsoever ?
I didn't say you didn't give a öööö about 16 million unemployeds etc., especially since I have been responsible for several thousands of peoples jobs over many years in corporate life, and if that isn't clear to you. then....KMA crew.
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What is the increased odds of an old person dying, genius? What is it?

What are the increased odds of dying? Will the elderly mortality rate even be higher in 2020 than it was in 2019?
 
GoldZ said:
It's very likely that I have a much greater grasp of the economic ramifications of our current brief shutdown than you. Your .1% comment is all the evidence required to know how weak sauced your rant is. And this reply is from someone who thinks, no make that knows full well, that shutting down long term is retarded.
If it's confusing to you whether we would be S.Korea or Italy without this brief shutdown, then how is it possible you are connected to Tech in anyway whatsoever ?
I didn't say you didn't give a öööö about 16 million unemployeds etc., especially since I have been responsible for several thousands of peoples jobs over many years in corporate life, and if that isn't clear to you. then....KMA crew.
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Well you dont GAF now, you selfish twat.
 
GoldZ said:
THE point of not overwhelming the hospitals is to save lives. Most of those saved will be vulnerable or over 65. Soylent Green approaches make for a very slippery slope.
The lack of empathy for the elderly claim, stems from.... unnecessarily killing them off. Geez, one might think some here never had a parent or grandparent.
Someone very wise once said wtte: You can judge a people/nation by how they treat their very young and very old. Me thinks we have some work to do on this.
Click to expand...

It's a tough situation. I'm afraid we will look back at this 10 years from now and realize that those two populations you mention, the very young and the very old BOTH were the victims of this Catch-22 circumstance. Lots of homes were fragile, to begin with, and families have been torn apart by economic and social problems this beast has created. Hundreds of thousands of kids lost their only decent meal every day when the public schools closed. I'm confident however that we will be playing CFB this year, even if it's delayed until late September. There is plenty of money to be made by the production of testing methods for Covid-19, and these will be widely available across the country by mid-summer. Also, I think we will see a vaccine closer to 8 months from now, rather than 18. Bobby Dodd will be open for business this year, and I will be there and watch our guys surprise a lot of people.
 
Reading posts as this debate gets angry is of great concern to me. I sincerely believe that this is what is going to happen across every stratum of our society as we are told we can get back to work and gathering. The President will encourage us to reengage and he will be crucified as being reckless and irresponsible. Governors and local leaders will face immense pressure from some to get us up and running when the curve has flattened sufficiently so as to ensure the health care system will not be overwhelmed. But, there will be just as immense pushback from those arguing against reengagement as long as persons are at risk from getting this disease, spreading this disease and putting persons at risk.

The media will want to fan the flames of these competing views because that will keep media coverage front and center. Social media will see us lose respect for those who do not agree with us, Stingtalk already supplies us with ample evidence this is likely. Every leader will be second guessed. Every call to resume anything - public schools, restaurants, concerts, college campuses, sports, entertainment, etc - will be challenged by talking heads, bloggers, and on social media. Decisions to resume will be sabotaged. A school system will announce its resumption, angry dissenters will protest and threaten litigation if a teacher or child gets infected, and legal counsel will advise re- closing. A sport will plan to resume and egged on by media some AD or President will enjoy the limelight of refusing to play. Enough pull away, and everything unravels.

I hope I am wrong, but I fear we are headed toward a chaotic, divisive time. Everyone will be able to find someone with statistics and predictive models to back any opinion. My hope is that we simply support leadership decisions as they are made, but I am not too confident in our capacity to do this.
 
aeromech said:
That was a bit tongue in cheek, but; this is the greatest test we've ever had of the global warming theories. If global warming does not reverse itself this year then we know carbon output is not the primary problem and that reducing carbon emissions is not the answer. If there is one bright spot to this worldwide economic shutdown it is that carbon emissions were suddenly and drastically cut globally, that should show up in the climate data.
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I am curious to learn more about this theory in coming months. I realize we are flying and driving much less, but are other sources of carbon abated right now? I don't know.
 
If a vacine is a year away, do we shut down the economy until then? I am in multiple high risk groups but this is not sustainable anywhere near that long. I am on warfarin sometimes known as rat poison and have not had my INR checked since this started. We will never know how many people are dying because they are skipping check-ups, ignoring symptoms of other illnesses or deferring necessary elective surgery.

We have to start back and mitigate the impact with testing and treatment. We need to hold the Chinese government responsible since this is entirely their fault. We need to bring back critical manufacturing including medical equipment and pharmaceuticals.
 
Speaking of vaccine, what is the expectation of effectiveness said vaccine? Are you of the belief it will eradicate the virus from the face of the earth?
 
18in32 said:
I am curious to learn more about this theory in coming months. I realize we are flying and driving much less, but are other sources of carbon abated right now? I don't know.
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Well, if driving and flying much less results in no significant impact because of other sources; then what is the point of more fuel efficient vehicles?
 
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