Chris to Bama...

But your Masters degree wasn't in general studies, like 26% of Bama football players undergrad degrees are, should they be one of the few, proud, 39% who actually graduate.

I'd like to say I missed that qualification the first time around, but you didn't make it.

When i was there many of the jocks took Communications in "New College". It was a joke major but some of them weren't very smart and Bear won several national championships that way. There were others players like Steadman Shealy who were exemplary students and human beings.

As you know, only a very small percentage of football players would be accepted at any of the schools they attend but for their athletic freakery. I believe the difference at Tech is (and should be) substantial and we should be proud of that. But students, including the athletes who push themselves, can get a quality education at many of these same schools who have a "New College" (or their 21st century counterpart) setup to support teh sports program.

I don't know CJ's situation academically, but I refuse to judge him. I'm sorry that it didn't work out with Tech. I feel that both will be the worse for his decision, but I wish him the best of luck amongst the Crimson horde
 
I'd like to say I missed that qualification the first time around, but you didn't make it.
You're right of course. And I realized that a bit later, and tried to cover myself with an edit, which may not have gotten in before you replied. My bad.
 
edit-
My comments above are directed towards the kind of education Chris is going to receive, since the topic is about Chris. Additionally, many terrible schools have pretty good graduate programs. Even UGA has some graduate study programs that don't completely suck. But simply because UGA churns out a few PhDs every year does not mean that their librarians know how to spell, or that their undergrad students are taught anything meaningful, and UGA > Bammer for academics. I do not deny that graduates of UGA and Bama undergrad programs cannot be successful, merely that their success should not be directly attributed to their education.

As a physician in middle Georgia, I know about 6 other physicians who attended Alabama as undergrad. I believe some schools are superior to others (and ours is one of those superior schools) but people CAN get a good education from any number of schools. And people can go to school for different purposes than just to play football.

For instance, if Chris wishes to become a lawyer/sports agent -- where would be the better school? Tech, which has excellent student athletes, but very few legit pro prospects -- or Alabama, where the number of legit pro prospects that he might be able to get to represent at some later date would be higher?

Again, we do not know Chris's reasoning, but why waste the energy to bash an 18-year-old kid for making a decision that affects his life? I wish he had come to Tech, but I hope he is happy at Bama.
 
Obviously, there are people that are successful that have graduated from every college. I know hugely successful people that did not even go to college, but that does not mean that it would be a wise move to skip college. College grads are far more successful on average than non-college grads. Just like GT grads on average are more successful than Bama grads.

Median Salary by Years of Experience

< 1 yr = $38K (GT = $55K)
1-4 yrs = $43K (GT = $56K)
5-9 yrs = $58K (GT = $74K)
10-19 yrs = $73K (GT = $92K)
> 20 yrs = $79K (GT = $101K)

If you add it up, that's about an extra $850K in compensation over a career on average for a GT grad versus a Bama grad. If you apply even a very modest investment return, the difference is well over a $1M.

Per the NFL Players Association website, only 215 of 9000 or 2.39% of the players that make it to D-IA football make it to the NFL. If you throw out the bottom 80%, you still only have a 12% chance of making to the NFL.

Getting a quality education and pursuing a NFL career are not mutually exclusive paths. There are plenty of good academic schools out there that give you just as good a shot at making the NFL as Bama.

A lot of the top recruits out there do not have the option to go to a top academic school because they do not have the grades, test scores, or mental capacity to cut it. CJ had that opportunity and passed on the $1M+ insurance policy in order to maybe marginally improve his NFL chances. I think that is a bad decision.

Like I said before, it does not bother me at all that he is not coming to GT. If he does not make the NFL which is the overwhelmingly most likely outcome, CJ is the one that will be missing that $1M+ not me.
 
As a physician in middle Georgia, I know about 6 other physicians who attended Alabama as undergrad.
How many majored in general studies?

Just curious. ;)
 
Saw 2 of them in the doctor's lounge. 1 of them did. They are not sure of the others in the group. The one who did said it was easiest way to med school actually--no hard classes in your major, and your electives were all the pre-med stuff (bio, phys, org chem). Easy way to keep the gpa up, which is really all med schools want (high gpa and good mcat score).

JTS, what is the average salary for Mgt degrees at Tech? I am sure the engineering skews the curve for salaries. Because not high pay for english, romance language studies compared to petro engineering. Again, I am not saying Tech is not a superior school, which I believe it is. I am just saying we should not bash an 18 yr old for making a decision, which may turn out well for him. He may not have wanted to do engineering -- which then would put his starting salary options closer to the average, I am betting.

If starting salaries were all that was important, wouldn't we all be petro engineers? From CSM website--"Recruiting for our students is strong, several job offers per student, 100% job placement before graduation, BS starting salaries approaching $70,000 per year, Masters and Ph.D. salaries in the neighborhood of $100,000 per year, with some exceeding that number."

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/13/pf/college/starting_salaries/index.htm

"Topping the list of highest-paid majors were chemical engineers who fetched $55,900 on average, followed by electrical engineering degrees at $52,899. Despite taking a 0.3 percent dip compared to the 2004-2005 academic year, mechanical engineers took third place with an average salary of $50,672."

"Liberal arts majors, which includes social science majors such as history and english, finished last with a starting salary of $30,828, but experienced an increase of 6.1 percent compared to last year."
 
Saw 2 of them in the doctor's lounge. 1 of them did.

No kidding?

Wow.

Well I'll eat crow when I deserve it, and now looks like as good a time as any. Who knew a football crip major could get you into med school? That's wild.

beej67,
majored in the wrong thing, apparently
 
The average starting salary for a BS in Management at GT is $47K. I can't find an average starting salary for a BS in Business Management at Bama, but the median salary for BS in Management degreeholders regardless of experience is $47K for Bama versus $60K for GT. Average starting base salaries for MBA's are $58K at Bama and $80K at GT. I don't have a breakdown like above based on experience to calculate the difference in career compensation for just Management majors, but I think it is pretty safe to say from the information that we do have that the delta will still be a very significant number and probably very close to the previously mentioned number.
 
JTS,

I stand corrected as well. I am a bit confused though--I am surprised the median and the average (I assume mean is average) is 13k difference for business majors--that seems a bit high for me. But I stand corrected. I still will argue that starting salaries are a good point to start from, but not the end-all; or else we would all wish to be petro engineers, and schools that have liberal arts programs have a significant handicap compared to non-liberal arts schools, like Tech.

But this is entirely beside the point. My main point was that we should not be bashing a kid for making what he thinks is a good decision at his point in life--we are not in his shoes, and do not know all what is going on in his mind. Would I love for all 5-star, 4.0GPA student athletes that can run a 4.3 to come to Tech? Hell yes, but I am not going to bash one for changing his mind, especially after a coaching change. College students have enough problems--they don't need alumni messsage board bashing as well.
 
I think alot are assuming this decision was solely chris's and that he wasn't influenced negatively by people in his life that are looking out for their interest more than chris's.

Its amazing, how people who shouldn't have any role in one's recruitment can influence it.

I feel bad for him.

You're right, a lot of people are assuming things, including yourself.

In fact, we know little or nothing of what went into this decision, we can only assume.

While I would have liked CJ to come to GT as much as the next guy, I also respect his right to do what he thinks is best for himself.

Again, who are we to judge?
 
Last edited:
Obviously, there are people that are successful that have graduated from every college. I know hugely successful people that did not even go to college, but that does not mean that it would be a wise move to skip college. College grads are far more successful on average than non-college grads. Just like GT grads on average are more successful than Bama grads.

Median Salary by Years of Experience

< 1 yr = $38K (GT = $55K)
1-4 yrs = $43K (GT = $56K)
5-9 yrs = $58K (GT = $74K)
10-19 yrs = $73K (GT = $92K)
> 20 yrs = $79K (GT = $101K)

If you add it up, that's about an extra $850K in compensation over a career on average for a GT grad versus a Bama grad. If you apply even a very modest investment return, the difference is well over a $1M.

Per the NFL Players Association website, only 215 of 9000 or 2.39% of the players that make it to D-IA football make it to the NFL. If you throw out the bottom 80%, you still only have a 12% chance of making to the NFL.

Getting a quality education and pursuing a NFL career are not mutually exclusive paths. There are plenty of good academic schools out there that give you just as good a shot at making the NFL as Bama.

A lot of the top recruits out there do not have the option to go to a top academic school because they do not have the grades, test scores, or mental capacity to cut it. CJ had that opportunity and passed on the $1M+ insurance policy in order to maybe marginally improve his NFL chances. I think that is a bad decision.

Like I said before, it does not bother me at all that he is not coming to GT. If he does not make the NFL which is the overwhelmingly most likely outcome, CJ is the one that will be missing that $1M+ not me.

That's funny. The last five times I was promoted, my degree from GT never came up. I wonder why?

Could it be that after you get your first job, your degree doesn't matter, and it is the individual's contribution that is the measuring stick?

Then again, this realization doesn't mesh well with the averages and the "value" of a GT degree, does it?

Again, GT doesn't have a patent for preparing young adults for the real world. There are successful people that don't go to GT, there are majors that young adults are interested in other than mgt and engineering, and average salaries mean nothing -- it is individual accomplishment that is the best predictor of future earning potential, and not the school on the diploma...Mike
 
That's funny. The last five times I was promoted, my degree from GT never came up. I wonder why?

Could it be that after you get your first job, your degree doesn't matter, and it is the individual's contribution that is the measuring stick?

That's funny, my degree from GT came up during my last job interview, and I have 15+ years experience. If you think a GT degree doesn't open doors that degrees from some other schools won't you are sadly mistaken.

I worked for a fortune 500 company once in a department were most everyone except minorities had a graduate level degree from a nationally recognized engineering school. Now a person with an FIT or Bama degree might have done well there if given a chance; but we'll never know.

Second, do you think just maybe that how you were prepared, trained, and let's not forget screened, at GT has anything at all to do with your ability to contribute?
 
That's funny, my degree from GT came up during my last job interview, and I have 15+ years experience. If you think a GT degree doesn't open doors that degrees from some other schools won't you are sadly mistaken.

I worked for a fortune 500 company once in a department were most everyone except minorities had a graduate level degree from a nationally recognized engineering school. Now a person with an FIT or Bama degree might have done well there if given a chance; but we'll never know.

Second, do you think just maybe that how you were prepared, trained, and let's not forget screened, at GT has anything at all to do with your ability to contribute?

Thank you for the response.

Tell me, how many questions did you get on your degree? How many did you get on your prior jobs and experience/accomplishments?

Listen, I'm not saying a degree from GT doesn't help, it does, particularly when getting your first job. However, I would argue that it means far, far less than the individual's on-the-job accomplishments particulary when you're talking about non-starting positions. To wit, I would wager if you talk to anyone who does a lot of professional hiring and/or promoting (I've done my share) they would agree....the degree is nice, but it is what he/she's done with the degree that really matters.

That said, your chosen vocation probably differs from my own, as I wasn't on the engineering/technical side for very long (and I assume you were/are), so it makes sense that we would have different experiences when it comes to who "makes it" and who doesn't. The majority of my experience is in sales, marketing, and the business itself, not the technical side, which may explain some of our differing perspective...FWIW, I work for a Fortune 50 company (#15 last I checked), and most of the people I work with are not graduates from "name" schools -- but they are all highly driven, self-motivated high achievers, who do not rely on their degree to get them anything.

To address your second point, frankly, GT has little to do with my ability to contribute.. However, my upbringing, motivation/work ethic and intelligence are the primary reasons for whatever success I've had. Sure GT helped, but I'm sure had I chosen to go elsewhere I would have fared just as well. The fact that GT takes the "cream of the crop" academically and weeds them down even more with the a difficult road to graduation, tends to identify the intelligent and hard-working, but it is the individual not the school doing the work.

My point is this: Nobody gets paid on averages, nobody gets paid for GT being on their degree -- it is the individual that dictates their own success, particularly after they get their first job. My alma mater, our beloved GT, while a wonderful school and great at graduating high achievers, does not guarantee anything to its graduates. It is up to each graduate to accomplish things on their own.

But the point is really moot, because the underlying issue we were discussing was the choice made by a recruit to go to UA rather than GT. While we can argue average starting salaries or the value of a GT degree, who are we to question the decision of a young man when we don't know the young man or his real aspirations/goals? GT is not the best school for everyone, and I for one am not about to question the judgement of this young man. However, I will wish him good luck and hope that if things don't work out for him at Alabama he might consider coming to the better of the two schools -- after all, he would have the law of averages working on his behalf. ;)

Have a nice weekend, a very happy holiday, and as always, GO JACKETS!!!...Mike
 
Last edited:
Thank you for the response.

I'm not saying a degree from GT doesn't help, it does, particularly when getting your first job. However, I would argue that it means far, far less than the individual's on-the-job accomplishments. I would wager if you talk to anyone who does a lot of professional hiring and/or promoting (I've done my share) they would agree....the degree is nice, but it is what he/she's done with the degree that really matters.

That said, your chosen vocation probably differs from my own, as I wasn't on the engineering/technical side for very long (and I assume you were/are), so it makes sense that we would have different experiences when it comes to who "makes it" and who doesn't. The majority of my experience is in sales, marketing, and the business itself, not the technical side, which may explain some of our differing perspective...

Our differing professions explain some of our differing perspectives, and to be completely honest my present employer is not as interested in where you got your degree as long as it was acredited.

To address your second point, frankly, GT has little to do with my ability to contribute, but my upbringing, my motivation/work ethic and my intelligence are the primary reasons for whatever success I've had. Sure GT helped, but I'm sure had I chosen to go elsewhere I would have fared just as well. The fact that GT takes the "cream of the crop" academically and weeds them down even more with the a difficult road to graduation, tends to identify the intelligent and hard-working, but it is the individual not the school doing the work.

Well, here we just have to agree to differ. My education has played a large part in my ability to contribute; both the things I learned academically and my survival skills. GT does an excellent job teaching engineers to think like engineers and to be persistent; both skills have served me well. I truly believe GT hones the work ethic and self motivational skills of it's students.

Nobody gets paid on averages, nobody gets paid for GT being on their degree -- it is the individual that dictates their own success, particularly after they get their first job. My alma mater, our beloved GT, while a wonderful school and great at graduating high achievers, does not guarantee anything to its graduates. It is up to each graduate to accomplish things on their own. That's my only point.

But the point is really mute, because the underlying issue we were discussing was the choice made by a recruit to go to UA rather than GT. While we can argue average starting salaries or the value of a GT degree, who are we to question the decision for a young man when we don't know the young man or his aspirations or his goals? GT is not the best school for everyone, and I for one am not about to question the judgement of this young man. However, I wish him good luck and hope that if things don't work out for him at Alabama he might consider coming to the better of the two schools -- after all, he would have the law of averages working on his behalf. ;)

Have a nice weekend, a very happy holiday, and as always, GO JACKETS!!!...Mike

Hard to argue with this last part, not everyone is cut out to be an engineer from GT, and a GT degree is in no way a prerequisit for success.
 
Aeromech, Looks like you beat me to the punch on your response -- I was still furiously editing my last post. ;)

Anyway, thanks again for your response, I see your perspective better now, and I hope you understand mine better too.

Take care...Mike
 
That's funny. The last five times I was promoted, my degree from GT never came up. I wonder why?

Could it be that after you get your first job, your degree doesn't matter, and it is the individual's contribution that is the measuring stick?
I respond to this line of reasoning the same way I did earlier:

I do not deny that graduates of UGA and Bama undergrad programs cannot be successful, merely that their success should not be directly attributed to their education.
The issue is not whether the diploma gets you a raise. The issue is whether the education makes you a better employee, leading to the stuff that actually does get you the raise. One of my better friends in high school went to UGA instead of Tech, graduated in 3 years with a degree in Biology and slept through every class, still making the honor roll. Got out and delivered pizzas for a living. By contrast, one of my better friends in college failed out of Tech and makes 6 figures in software development. And I'd definitely say his experience at Tech, even though he didn't get the degree, molded his work ethic. Despite the partying that led to his 0.6 gpa in 96.

beej67,
got a 2.1 that semester
 
Beej,

Thanks for the response.

But had their schooling been reversed what would have been the outcome? Who's to say? Clearly college played a role -- but I'd wager what was inside the person was far more important than the college.

Respectfully submitted...Mike (who went 2.1, 1.9, 2.1 in late freshman/early sophomore year)
 
I for one am glad that TampaJacket's message of "Don't worry about where you go to college because it does not matter" is not widely embraced and I certainly will not be advicing my own children this way.

Obviously as your career progresses you are valued more on your personal contributions than your degree, but I don't think that it is a coincidence that GT grads' personal contributions on average are significantly more highly valued in the form of higher compensation than Bama grads over the course of a 43 year career (not just starting salary).

I am also not being critical because CJ passed over GT specifically. I think that when you're presented with the opportunity to get a better education or a worse education you should take the better education. Regardless of the major CJ has decided to pursue, I am certain that a football recruit of CJ's caliber with his academic background has opportunities to go to a better academic program than Bama that still provides him just as good a chance of making the NFL.
 
I'm not saying a degree from GT doesn't help, it does, particularly when getting your first job. However, I would argue that it means far, far less than the individual's on-the-job accomplishments.

... but they are all highly driven, self-motivated high achievers, who do not rely on their degree to get them anything.

To address your second point, frankly, GT has little to do with my ability to contribute, but my upbringing, my motivation/work ethic and my intelligence are the primary reasons for whatever success I've had.

Mike,
I understand your point that having a degree from GT on your resume, in and of itself, is no guarantee of future success. However, I'd argue that by virtue of the fact that you have that degree, chances are that you either started out as a highly driven, self-motivated high achiever or you've learned to become one.

That degree from Tech, particularly if it's a technical one, shows that you've been chewed up, spat out, and beaten over the head repeatedly with a very large stick (or shaft, if you will.) And yet you perservered, excelled and came through with not only knowledge, but honed skills to help you succeed in the work place. You could have had a higher GPA at a lesser school, and still possibly achieved the same level of career success. But, the GT degree is a hallmark showing that you've been weighed, measured and tested, and found to meet a higher standard.

No, it doesn't guarantee a high salary. But it's a near guarantee that the degree holder is of high calibre.

But the point is really mute...
I disagree. I think it speaks volumes. Whether or not it's worth argueing about, however, is another matter.
 
Back
Top