ContactBuzz
Probably Drinks Cosmopolitans
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EXACTLY.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Personal foul: misuse of the
Clarification of White & Gold
- Thread starter Drew Hearn
- Start date
EXACTLY.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">Personal foul: misuse of the
If we'd go back to the "old gold", we'd have a darker color to contrast with white (FWIW)...
I LOVED those old gold jerseys under Carson..They looked great with white pants....I wish we'd do that when we absolutely have to wear dark jerseys...CHeck out some of those old pics...Even with the white helmets and gold GT -- a sharp look IMO...Its that lighter gold that doesn't show up well, and I don't like it anyway
I LOVED those old gold jerseys under Carson..They looked great with white pants....I wish we'd do that when we absolutely have to wear dark jerseys...CHeck out some of those old pics...Even with the white helmets and gold GT -- a sharp look IMO...Its that lighter gold that doesn't show up well, and I don't like it anyway
RamblinRed
Flats Noob
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2002
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Oldfoggy,
If you look at my post I never suggested that the bball team should play in black, though truth be told, I think they actually looked pretty good in it. I would prefer that we play in white and gold with blue trim.
I have no problem with people saying Hewitt hasn't won enough at this point because imo they are correct. That being said, there has been definate improvement over the previous period.
The three years prior to Hewitt's arrival we were 47-47 overall and 17-31 in the ACC with losing records in 2 of the 3 years.
In the last 3 years we are 48-44, slightly better than the previous three, and 22-26 in the ACC, a significant improvement over the prior three years.
Just for the record if you look at the prior 4 years GT was 56-65 overall and 20-44 in the ACC with 3 losing records.
The trend is in the right direction, but Hewitt and his staff have to break through in the next 2 to 3 years or I will be one of the ones saying that a coaching change is needed. I certainly don't think we need to make a change today. That would simply send the wrong message and make it harder to hire a new coach.
Coach K took over a team that went to the Final 8 and three years later was 11-18. Duke fans wanted to fire him. Dean Smith took a program that was winning almost 20 games a year and went .500 in year 3. Gary Williams had losing records in years 3-5.
Sometimes patience in rewarded, sometimes it is not but advocating changing coaches after only 3 years is seldom a good idea unless the coach is clearly incompetent and I don't think the record suggests that at all.
Now as for Bosh, I stand by my remarks that it is a very poor decision for Mr. Hearn to verbally attack a GT student-athlete. It was Bosh's mother that told the GT staff she expected Chris to stay all 4 years. But situations change, nobody expected him to be a top 5 draft pick after one year. To require him to stay would have been selfish on the part of GT and its fans. Bosh publicly stated in his press conference in Toronto that he is not concerned about his education as he will be going back to GT to complete his degree. Chris is quite frankly a good guy in today's athletic world.
Mr. Hearn was also incorrect as Bosh is the only player who has left after 1 year and he had a good reason to go, $10 million. Mr. Hearn has never wanted Coach Hewitt to be the head basketball coach at GT, that is fine, But it is an inappropriate to use that as part of his reasoning for the white and gold as it has nothing to do with the color scheme.
RamblinRed
If you look at my post I never suggested that the bball team should play in black, though truth be told, I think they actually looked pretty good in it. I would prefer that we play in white and gold with blue trim.
I have no problem with people saying Hewitt hasn't won enough at this point because imo they are correct. That being said, there has been definate improvement over the previous period.
The three years prior to Hewitt's arrival we were 47-47 overall and 17-31 in the ACC with losing records in 2 of the 3 years.
In the last 3 years we are 48-44, slightly better than the previous three, and 22-26 in the ACC, a significant improvement over the prior three years.
Just for the record if you look at the prior 4 years GT was 56-65 overall and 20-44 in the ACC with 3 losing records.
The trend is in the right direction, but Hewitt and his staff have to break through in the next 2 to 3 years or I will be one of the ones saying that a coaching change is needed. I certainly don't think we need to make a change today. That would simply send the wrong message and make it harder to hire a new coach.
Coach K took over a team that went to the Final 8 and three years later was 11-18. Duke fans wanted to fire him. Dean Smith took a program that was winning almost 20 games a year and went .500 in year 3. Gary Williams had losing records in years 3-5.
Sometimes patience in rewarded, sometimes it is not but advocating changing coaches after only 3 years is seldom a good idea unless the coach is clearly incompetent and I don't think the record suggests that at all.
Now as for Bosh, I stand by my remarks that it is a very poor decision for Mr. Hearn to verbally attack a GT student-athlete. It was Bosh's mother that told the GT staff she expected Chris to stay all 4 years. But situations change, nobody expected him to be a top 5 draft pick after one year. To require him to stay would have been selfish on the part of GT and its fans. Bosh publicly stated in his press conference in Toronto that he is not concerned about his education as he will be going back to GT to complete his degree. Chris is quite frankly a good guy in today's athletic world.
Mr. Hearn was also incorrect as Bosh is the only player who has left after 1 year and he had a good reason to go, $10 million. Mr. Hearn has never wanted Coach Hewitt to be the head basketball coach at GT, that is fine, But it is an inappropriate to use that as part of his reasoning for the white and gold as it has nothing to do with the color scheme.
RamblinRed
My point RR is that Hewitt has not gotten us anything since his arrival here. Do I have anything against him heavens NO. Do I want him to stay and produce heavens YES. But like MsTA and CCG I do not see PH as being the leader we need to get us to the promised land. Do I post all the time about PH no and this will be my last post about him. My point also was a statement attributed to him about the uni's. If true, then I will admit I felt it (the statement) was pretty lame at best.
jacketsrule
Varsity Lurker
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Messages
- 58
Mr. Hearn,
I respectfully submit that I am troubled by your comments here.
To begin with, I regret if you feel unappreciated by me or others that disagree with your position. While you might not want it, the next time I see you, I will happily offer you a beer for all that you have done for the institution we both love. I hope you will understand that I can disagree with you on this issue and not dislike you.
Also, I honestly feel that you have misrepresented the facts in your post. In this case, I even feel you are fanning the flames on an issue that was "put to bed" long ago.
Perhaps my greatest concern is your slam at Coach Hewitt. As far as I know, he never has made any public commment regarding the strict white and gold policy. I also want you to know that several of the coaches (and players, recruits, and fans) privately think the uniforms would look better incorporating darker colors. For several reasons, it doesn't seem right for you to single out Coach Hewitt on this board. Is your agenda partly about recruiting Bosh?
I was on the A-T board and voted in agreement with you when we endorsed your recommendation that the school determine its official official colors and create a policy accordingly. You made a reasonable case at the time.
I also appreciated that Dave Braine followed up by creating a qualified committee, including some loyal Tech fans and alumni that I personally know care about - and contribute as much to - the school as you or I do.
This entire matter reminds me very much of a situation I encountered professionally several years ago. I was involved closely with a medium sized company of several hundred employees. We had to make a determination on a matter relevant to the employee benefit package. We had a long-term, valuable employee that raised an important issue as a matter of precedent.
To make a long story short, he made a reasonable case, gained support and endorsement from various groups within the company, and brought the matter to the board. One possibility was to bring the matter to a popular vote for employees: perhaps you can already see the problems coming here...
It was pointed out that in doing so, a lot of money and effort would be spent and the result would be flawed. First, while employee opinion was extremely important, it would also be unobjective (read biased) toward a shorter-term solution. Second, there was no functional way to address all of the relevant business issues on the ballot. Most importantly, through a focus group, we determined that the only people that would vote would be the hard-core few that shared the view of the employee that made the original case. Certainly, this type of ballot would encourage greater participation of those with a dissenting view.
The vast majority of the other employees realized that the position of the first employee would ultimately cost the company a great deal of money and possibly eventually hurt their own jobs. However, the other employees didn't feel strongly enough about the matter to speak out or risk alienating the 'hard core' by opposing them. In fact, most didn't even care enough to vote.
The board voted and eventually created a committee to address the issue. The committee was composed of several long time employees, as well as a qualified accountant and attorney, and a couple of objective third parties from outside the company. They studied the matter thoroughly, considering history, employee expectations, business issues, etc.; came up with a recommendation; and supported their position solidly. Most employees were very happy with the findings and wanted to move on.
On the other hand, the original employee that brought up the matter would just not drop it. At any opportunity, he made it a combative issue. To this day, I don't understand why he wouldn't let it go; but I can tell you that the board and most of his peers began to lose respect for him- even after all the years of great things he did for the company. We tried repeatedly to understand his position; and, after fair consideration, asked him to understand our reasoning. His "facts" became more emphatic; but less realistic. At some point, I began to wonder if he felt he was protecting himself and others from some sort of conspiracy. His behavior suggested that he may have had some other, deeper issues.
I am not accusing you of anything insidious. In fact, as an entrepreneur, I appreciate your persistence and fastidiousness. That being said, please let this go. At this point, a well-reasoned decision has been made by a very qualified committee, incorporating fans and fan feedback. I can think of dozens of better causes for you: many of which would be constructive to the school and actually help fundraising, recruiting, etc. I believe this does not.
I hope you will accept this post with the respect with which it was intended.
Thanks and GO JACKETS!!!!
I respectfully submit that I am troubled by your comments here.
To begin with, I regret if you feel unappreciated by me or others that disagree with your position. While you might not want it, the next time I see you, I will happily offer you a beer for all that you have done for the institution we both love. I hope you will understand that I can disagree with you on this issue and not dislike you.
Also, I honestly feel that you have misrepresented the facts in your post. In this case, I even feel you are fanning the flames on an issue that was "put to bed" long ago.
Perhaps my greatest concern is your slam at Coach Hewitt. As far as I know, he never has made any public commment regarding the strict white and gold policy. I also want you to know that several of the coaches (and players, recruits, and fans) privately think the uniforms would look better incorporating darker colors. For several reasons, it doesn't seem right for you to single out Coach Hewitt on this board. Is your agenda partly about recruiting Bosh?
I was on the A-T board and voted in agreement with you when we endorsed your recommendation that the school determine its official official colors and create a policy accordingly. You made a reasonable case at the time.
I also appreciated that Dave Braine followed up by creating a qualified committee, including some loyal Tech fans and alumni that I personally know care about - and contribute as much to - the school as you or I do.
This entire matter reminds me very much of a situation I encountered professionally several years ago. I was involved closely with a medium sized company of several hundred employees. We had to make a determination on a matter relevant to the employee benefit package. We had a long-term, valuable employee that raised an important issue as a matter of precedent.
To make a long story short, he made a reasonable case, gained support and endorsement from various groups within the company, and brought the matter to the board. One possibility was to bring the matter to a popular vote for employees: perhaps you can already see the problems coming here...
It was pointed out that in doing so, a lot of money and effort would be spent and the result would be flawed. First, while employee opinion was extremely important, it would also be unobjective (read biased) toward a shorter-term solution. Second, there was no functional way to address all of the relevant business issues on the ballot. Most importantly, through a focus group, we determined that the only people that would vote would be the hard-core few that shared the view of the employee that made the original case. Certainly, this type of ballot would encourage greater participation of those with a dissenting view.
The vast majority of the other employees realized that the position of the first employee would ultimately cost the company a great deal of money and possibly eventually hurt their own jobs. However, the other employees didn't feel strongly enough about the matter to speak out or risk alienating the 'hard core' by opposing them. In fact, most didn't even care enough to vote.
The board voted and eventually created a committee to address the issue. The committee was composed of several long time employees, as well as a qualified accountant and attorney, and a couple of objective third parties from outside the company. They studied the matter thoroughly, considering history, employee expectations, business issues, etc.; came up with a recommendation; and supported their position solidly. Most employees were very happy with the findings and wanted to move on.
On the other hand, the original employee that brought up the matter would just not drop it. At any opportunity, he made it a combative issue. To this day, I don't understand why he wouldn't let it go; but I can tell you that the board and most of his peers began to lose respect for him- even after all the years of great things he did for the company. We tried repeatedly to understand his position; and, after fair consideration, asked him to understand our reasoning. His "facts" became more emphatic; but less realistic. At some point, I began to wonder if he felt he was protecting himself and others from some sort of conspiracy. His behavior suggested that he may have had some other, deeper issues.
I am not accusing you of anything insidious. In fact, as an entrepreneur, I appreciate your persistence and fastidiousness. That being said, please let this go. At this point, a well-reasoned decision has been made by a very qualified committee, incorporating fans and fan feedback. I can think of dozens of better causes for you: many of which would be constructive to the school and actually help fundraising, recruiting, etc. I believe this does not.
I hope you will accept this post with the respect with which it was intended.
Thanks and GO JACKETS!!!!
Jacketsrule, I have my preference for colors, but it is not a big issue. As long as the team wins with class, I am satisfied.
I see both sides of the issue, but would not consider it an important enough issue to give energy to either side.
I do think you presented a good view of the situation from your perspective. It was a well reasoned post with actual, similar events.
Father Time
I see both sides of the issue, but would not consider it an important enough issue to give energy to either side.
I do think you presented a good view of the situation from your perspective. It was a well reasoned post with actual, similar events.
Father Time
jacketsrule,
very excellent post, and I agree with the sentiments that the decision has been made and it it time to move on.
I strongly disagree with your analogy. Making a business decision about employee benefits (employees who come and go for various reasons) is not even in the same ball park of making a decision of official schoool colors of one's alma mater. Two vastly differenct things.
I admire the respect you still show Mr Hearn though in spite of your dissapointments in him. You are a good man.
very excellent post, and I agree with the sentiments that the decision has been made and it it time to move on.
I strongly disagree with your analogy. Making a business decision about employee benefits (employees who come and go for various reasons) is not even in the same ball park of making a decision of official schoool colors of one's alma mater. Two vastly differenct things.
I admire the respect you still show Mr Hearn though in spite of your dissapointments in him. You are a good man.
MsTechAnalysis
Jolly Good Fellow
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2002
- Messages
- 1,816
<font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Sans-Serif">NCJ: Totally agree with you here on colors but also agree with Mr. Hearn on the voting of the colors and and opening it up for discussion and vote to those who support the school. I like the old gold and can't stand this electric yellow, orange stuff!Originally posted by ncjacket:
Like I said before, you guys either don't have teenagers, dont' hang around them or just don't care to figure them out. Kids like what's cool. When a coach says I'm from ____ what pops into the kid's mind will have a lot to do with the rest of the conversation. Several years back there was a run of GT sightings on network TV, kids wearing hats, etc. on shows - they were not the pure gold and white stuff. When kids watch a game they notice how teams look. The current players specifically asked to be allowed to wear black. It does matter to high school and college kids. So we are now saying if he doesn't like just gold and white we don't want him/her?
Nobody is suggesting we go away from white and gold. Just that you can deviate strategically and make the unis more attractive which will catch the eye of kids and should translate into more $$$ in merchandise sales. Or we can be purists and bitch about our marketing and recruting and ignore some of the reasons we have problems in those areas.
And for the record, I think gold and white are great. But not JUST gold and white. We need an accent color when wearing white jerseys. And I do like the idea of blue jerseys every now and then, kind of a throwback approach. The Wreck is white and gold, the cheerleaders and band are, the primary color for all uniforms (except swimming) are, so what's the big deal about a little variety to spice things up.
As I've said before, what's more important is figuring out what our gold is supposed to be.
When I look back on the black jerseys with Curry in '85 - we won and we looked good doing it - and the BlackWatch was being talked about everywhere. Always use to watch the Oakland Raiders in the Black/Silver and thought how good the uniforms looked and how it made players stand out. When I look back at the Navy blue with Ross - we won and we looked good doing. There is something about colors and perception especially to young folks.
You are correct on the teenagers of today and there likes and dislikes in clothing and colors - I have one and learn first hand. We are diehard GT fans but my 17 year old always comments on other uniforms, colors and how the players look in them - all the time.
Matter-of-fact, as recently as a few weeks back we chose to look at some old tapes of 1990 games, and she was the first one to comment on GT's attire and how the guys looked strong and tough and how the colors were impressive with the Navy.
As far as the selling of GT memororabilia and clothing - GT Marketing has not done a good job here in opening up this avenue around the country and in particular the southeast. They are too conservative in their licensing and getting the product(s) out to be sold in any venue they can be sold in. This, I have never been able to understand. A money maker staring you right in the face and you don't take advantage of a good thing while every other major Div. 1 college pulls in the $$$!
Mr. Hearn is an alumnus I admire and has valid points in his thinking and I respect him for who he is and what he has done, and believe voting from a larger group of individuals closer to GT would serve a better purpose here.
Colors do matter in tradition and look - it goes both ways.
MsTA I have no trouble with opening this up to some kid of vote or with Mr Hearn's feelings. I'm simply saying there is another side that many alums would agree with. I also have to say I don't really have a problem with the AA making a decision on something like this, it's what they are paid to do. I do have a big problem with the lack of marketing of GT items and the limited selection. I especially have a problem with the fact that I can't find anything up here in NC that isn't yellow.
OTOH there are a lot of traditions at Tech and gold helmets, white jerseys and gold pants haven't always been the uniform. I personally liked the white helmets and would love to see them occassionally. I also liked the navy jerseys, although would have preferred them with gold pants. And in linking tradition and colors, most schools have different schemes. Where does silver fit into Ugag's official colors. Duke has worn silver pants and black basketball uniforms. Clemson has so many colors I don't remember them all. You can use tradition to provide contiuity and foster pride or you can use it to stifle anything new or refreshing. Like your daughter who liked the different uniforms we need to be aware of what kids are interested in and incorporate it into our look w/o throwing away our traditions IMO.
But it is way beyond silly that this is as big an issue every year as it is.
OTOH there are a lot of traditions at Tech and gold helmets, white jerseys and gold pants haven't always been the uniform. I personally liked the white helmets and would love to see them occassionally. I also liked the navy jerseys, although would have preferred them with gold pants. And in linking tradition and colors, most schools have different schemes. Where does silver fit into Ugag's official colors. Duke has worn silver pants and black basketball uniforms. Clemson has so many colors I don't remember them all. You can use tradition to provide contiuity and foster pride or you can use it to stifle anything new or refreshing. Like your daughter who liked the different uniforms we need to be aware of what kids are interested in and incorporate it into our look w/o throwing away our traditions IMO.
But it is way beyond silly that this is as big an issue every year as it is.
FHstinger
Dodd-Like
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2001
- Messages
- 2,584
More power to you, Drew Hearn!
Up with the WHITE and GOLD!
To hell with the blue.
I noticed the 2003 GT Football Media Guide has "blue" listed for the first time as an official school color. ARRRRRRG!
GOLD helmets, WHITE shirts and GOLD pants forever!
All true GT fans wear WHITE & GOLD to TECH games.
Up with the WHITE and GOLD!
To hell with the blue.
I noticed the 2003 GT Football Media Guide has "blue" listed for the first time as an official school color. ARRRRRRG!
GOLD helmets, WHITE shirts and GOLD pants forever!
All true GT fans wear WHITE & GOLD to TECH games.
texstinger
Dodd-Like
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2002
- Messages
- 8,816
What if we truly found the perfect Gold color, just dark enough to contrast with white. Nothing but Gold & White on unis & hats. Just like the contrast at UT with orange/white, PSU with blue/white, bama with crimson/white, UTex with burnt orange/white. Would the purist go for it? Would we have the nachos to have a uni (with the proper gold remember) of nothing, and I mean nothing, but Gold & White?