Coaching Tiers, CBS article

Ed Sawyer said:
The fact you think guys like Mark Stoops, Jim McElwain, Kliff Kingsbury, Ed Orgeron, and Lovie Smith among others are better college coaches than Paul Johnson shows how little you know about college football.
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Bielema doesn't belong above CPJ but the rest wouldn't be any worse for us. Prove me wrong.
 
ClydeBrick said:
Since I have but one rating to give to each post I want to be sure; are RW92, Yukon and gogt5 fishing for Big Cries or Dislikes?

I just want to be sure I am giving them what they want.

Of course, if we had the Pooh . . .
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meh, it's the offseason and there's not much else to talk about. I'm not fishing for anything - couldn't begin to care less what people think of my opinions here.
 
smokey_wasp said:
Actually, most don't. I can think of a couple who do, and one is banned and is likely a troll account anyways.
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almost every reply to me in this thread does. I mean, I don't give a öööö - it's just a bizarre phenomenon to watch people get so personally insulted that there are fans not pleased with CPJ.
 
Ed Sawyer said:
He's not even the highest paid coach on that list, dumbass. In fact, of the seven P5 coaches listed, Johnson is the fifth-highest paid coach, only ahead of Fedora and Mason.

Johnson is the 40th highest paid coach in college football. If you think there are 39 head coaches that are better than him, you're an idiot.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/
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We rank 42 on assistant coach pay. I guess that we are getting what we pay for.

CPJ's buyout is actually comparatively low. :)
 
ramblinwise1 said:
We rank 42 on assistant coach pay. I guess that we are getting what we pay for.
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I'm not a rah-rah kind of guy. I recognize Johnson has his limitations and there have been some disappointing years.

But I really don't get where some of y'all are coming from. There are 65 P5 teams. Johnson's pay and his assistants' pay is around the bottom third of P5 teams. Everyone here acts like that's where Tech is on the college football totem pole. Newsflash: Tech is not in the bottom third of P5 teams when it comes to performance on the field over Johnson's tenure.

Check his ACC record. Tech is not in the lower third of the conference, or even in the bottom half. Only Clemson, FSU, and Virginia Tech have better conference records since Johnson got here.

Also check all of the coaches that have won a conference championship. Of all of the current coaches, only 18 have won a P5 conference championship since Johnson came to Tech in 2008. Here they are: Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Gus Malzahn, Kirby Smart, Mike Gundy, Bill Snyder, Gary Patterson, Lincoln Riley, Mark Dantonio, Bret Bielema, James Franklin, Chip Kelly, David Shaw, Chris Peterson, Clay Helton, Dabo Swinney, Jimbo Fisher, and Paul Johnson. That's pretty good company to keep.
 
I would take PJ Fleck, Kliff Kingsbury, Herm Edwards, and Scott Frost all above Paul Johnson. Flame me if you want to, but these coaches have a brighter future than CPJ.
 
travwp76 said:
I would take PJ Fleck, Kliff Kingsbury, Herm Edwards, and Scott Frost all above Paul Johnson. Flame me if you want to, but these coaches have a brighter future than CPJ.
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On Fleck and Frost, you're projecting that they will be better, because neither one has won at the P5 level. Maybe they will, maybe they won't but you can't say they've proven to be better coaches, because Western Michigan and UCF ain't Georgia Tech.

As for Kingsbury, he's lucky he hasn't been fired yet. He's 30-33 and hasn't finished higher than sixth in a weak Big 12.

And Herm Edwards is a crazy loon who will be lucky to finish two years at Arizona State.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
Bielema doesn't belong above CPJ but the rest wouldn't be any worse for us. Prove me wrong.
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Stoops, Kingsbury, Orgeron, and Smith all have losing records at much easier programs to win at. And McElwain humped a shark. Next question.
 
travwp76 said:
I would take PJ Fleck, Kliff Kingsbury, Herm Edwards, and Scott Frost all above Paul Johnson. Flame me if you want to, but these coaches have a brighter future than CPJ.
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LOL at Herm Edwards bright future.
 
ramblinwise1 said:
We rank 42 on assistant coach pay. I guess that we are getting what we pay for.

CPJ's buyout is actually comparatively low. :)
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So, what is Stansbury to do? Dabo gave up money early on to get better assistants. If assistants are important to the success of the program, what should we do? I don't know CPJ's take on this, so I won't speculate, but if better assistants make for a more successful program, shouldn't he be for that? Swinney ended up overtaking Georgia Tech, moving into the national conversation, and eventually reaped a handsome monetary return on his investment. And I seriously don't believe Dabo Swinney is a better coach than Paul Johnson---but he is a damn sight more successful coach. If Paul took a $400k cut, he'd still be over $2 million per, and we could give five assistants an $80,000 bump. Wouldn't that help?
 
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Yukonwreck said:
So, what is Stansbury to do? Dabo gave up money early on to get better assistants. If assistants are important to the success of the program, what should we do? I don't know CPJ's take on this, so I won't speculate, but if better assistants make for a more successful program, shouldn't he be for that? Swinney ended up overtaking Georgia Tech, moving into the national conversation, and eventually reaped a handsome monetary return on his investment. And I seriously don't believe Dabo Swinney is a better coach than Paul Johnson---but he is a damn sight more successful coach. If Paul took a $400k cut, he'd still be over $2 million per, and we could give five assistants an $80,000 bump. Wouldn't that help?
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ice cube's chance in hell of that happening. I don't blame him - if I worked a job that paid as well as his did for stuff like 2015 and 2017, I wouldn't want anything to change either.
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
ice cube's chance in hell of that happening. I don't blame him - if I worked a job that paid as well as his did for stuff like 2015 and 2017, I wouldn't want anything to change either.
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He's been making huge money for ten years, and very good money for twenty years. You are presupposing that even with conservatively $15 million in the bank and an income of $2 million plus for the foreseeable future, that he would rather have more money than more wins. You could be right, but if you are, doesn't that disqualify him from being our coach? I don't know if $80k per assistant moves the needle at all. Around the country there are lots of assistants making $800k plus and more than a few making over $1 million. And money may not be the answer at all. But if better assistants produce better teams, don't better teams beget better attendance, recruiting, donations, etc.? If we are to believe, like many declare here, that CPJ is obsessed with the legacy of his system, isn't it within his grasp to take a stab at a better staff?
 
Ed Sawyer said:
On Fleck and Frost, you're projecting that they will be better, because neither one has won at the P5 level. Maybe they will, maybe they won't but you can't say they've proven to be better coaches, because Western Michigan and UCF ain't Georgia Tech.

As for Kingsbury, he's lucky he hasn't been fired yet. He's 30-33 and hasn't finished higher than sixth in a weak Big 12.

And Herm Edwards is a crazy loon who will be lucky to finish two years at Arizona State.
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What's so ridiculous about the idea that people like Frost are better coaches than CPJ is that the FBS and G5 portion of CPJ's resume is as good as, or better than, any coach in the country. If *that's* what we're hiring on...
 
RamblinWreck92 said:
Everyone on that list from 1-39 except Muschamp. I'm sure I could find someone beneath 40 to fill that out. There are plenty of coaches who could have 2 of 3 missed bowls/losing seasons on that list and NOT be paid $3 mill/per.

I'm of the belief that CPJ's system has peaked here and that it's time to move on. I think he's done about as well as his scheme and coaching can do. Some good seasons, some awful ones. His hire hasn't improved our recruiting and we're now missing bowl season in years where there are upwards of 80 teams getting invites.

What's interesting is that this POV and opinion based on fact angers many fans more than the losing seasons and getting boat-raced by the mutts at home does. There's a bizarre love affair with this coach that is cultish. It's why I believe most of the defenders are Scheme First, School Second fans, as that's the most logical reason for the strange, angry reaction at anyone who dares to point this stuff out.
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My main problem is that now everyone knows what you think and you are repeating yourself and ööööting all over every thread on the board. I disagree with you, but whether you are right or wrong about CPJ is not even the issue any more. He is our HC right now, so you don't have to tell everyone, in every thread, how much you think he is over paid, how he has peaked, and how we can do better. I think most on the board would appreciate it if you would just give it a ööööing break for even a little while.
 
covingtonjacket said:
My main problem is that now everyone knows what you think and you are repeating yourself and ööööting all over every thread on the board. I disagree with you, but whether you are right or wrong about CPJ is not even the issue any more. He is our HC right now, so you don't have to tell everyone, in every thread, how much you think he is over paid, how he has peaked, and how we can do better. I think most on the board would appreciate it if you would just give it a ööööing break for even a little while.
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No, we have to shout if from the rooftops. Paul Johnson must go for Georgia Tech football to survive.
 
covingtonjacket said:
My main problem is that now everyone knows what you think and you are repeating yourself and ööööting all over every thread on the board. I disagree with you, but whether you are right or wrong about CPJ is not even the issue any more. He is our HC right now, so you don't have to tell everyone, in every thread, how much you think he is over paid, how he has peaked, and how we can do better. I think most on the board would appreciate it if you would just give it a ööööing break for even a little while.
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Well, if it's OK for some to think that "he's the best coach we can get", it's fair for others to think otherwise. I, for one, don't think you speak for "most on the board" btw. My main problem is that you seek to shut down dissenting opinions. If you want rainbows and unicorns, perhaps The Hive would be more to your liking?

Sorry I don't share your opinion on this, Chachi. End of the day though, I want us to win every ööööing game. Sorry that probably pisses you off too.
 
It's probably a healthy thing for any program to have dissenters after any losing season. Especially two in the last three.

They are wrong of course. But still.
 
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