FTRS: Why we're struggling (and where the '19 class is now)

[GoGATech]

Yeah, we all know . . . greatest rebuilding job in world history since the fall of the Roman Empire.

But, hey, do you happen to recall where Collins' 2021 recruiting class was ranked? Asking for a friend. TIA!

Once again you fail to acknowledge that we are also utilizing the transfer portal now for the last 2 years and not signing 20+ guys out of high school, which skews those stats. That wasn't around back in 16-17-18 when we were signing full classes that were still ranked that low. This is our average ranking per player in each class since 2016 along with how many of each class (and percentage) were rated lower than 5.5 (lowest 3* rating). Average rating has pretty much been the same for each of CGC's classes so far, and having such smaller classes those 1 or 2 lower rated guys weigh more to drop that average rating, so they all look pretty similar to me despite where they actually ended up in the final team ranking.

2016- 5.49 7/18 (38.9%)
2017- 5.55 5/24 (20.8%)
2018- 5.55 3/21 (14.3%)

2019- 5.57 3/21 (14.3%)
2020- 5.64 2/24 (8.3%)
2021- 5.63 2/16 (12.5%)
2022- 5.63 1/15 (6.7%)

 

[OmnipoTech]

To anyone who still denies the lack of talent Collins started with, here is the reality.

2016 - #67
2017 - #48
2018 - #53

Yep. Those are some elite classes to start with. Looking at the OL only:

2016 - 2
2017 - 4
2018 - 2

So 8 total OL’s (5 2*’s) recruited to play option only football. Not exactly a stocked cupboard.

Starting with the 2021 season, this is all Key & Collins.

Pretty weird to intentionally switch back and forth between rivals and 247 to grab the worst number for your rankings unless you are trying to push a dumbass agenda - oh wait that's par for the course for you.

Rivals:
2016 - 67
2017 - 41
2018 - 53

247:
2016 - 61
2017 - 48
2018 - 44

There were at least 16 scholarship guys playing OL that were either on the team at the end of 2018 and eligible for 2019, or recruits committed for the 2019 class. How many OL do you think we needed to run the option?

Scott Morgan (2015)
Brad Morgan (2015)
Parker Braun (2016)
Kenny Cooper (2016)
Jahaziel Lee (2016)
Mike Minihan (2017)
Zach Quinney (2017)
Connor Hansen (2017)
Charlie Clark (2017)
Austin Smith (2018)
Mike Maye (2018)
Zack McKeehan (2018)
Harrison Jump (2018)
Jack Defoor (2018, transfer)
Joshua Black (2019 commit)
Larry Dowdy (2019 commit)

 

[GoGATech]

There were at least 16 scholarship guys playing OL that were either on the team at the end of 2018 and eligible for 2019, or recruits committed for the 2019 class. How many OL do you think we needed to run the option?

Scott Morgan (2015)
Brad Morgan (2015)
Parker Braun (2016)
Kenny Cooper (2016)
Jahaziel Lee (2016)
Mike Minihan (2017)
Zach Quinney (2017)
Connor Hansen (2017)
Charlie Clark (2017)
Austin Smith (2018)
Mike Maye (2018)
Zack McKeehan (2018)
Harrison Jump (2018)
Jack Defoor (2018, transfer)
Joshua Black (2019 commit)
Larry Dowdy (2019 commit)

FWIW, he wasn't necessarily talking about what we would've had for an option OL the next year, he was talking about how many actual OL had been recruited to GT, and how low their ratings were. At least 4 of those guys you mentioned were DEs or DTs in high school and rated as such by scouting services, and we recruited them to play OL for an option offense. They were even less suited to play OL in a traditional offense than the low-rated OLinemen we recruited and would have been rated as such were they rated as OL. People don't truly understand the deficit we had at OL when CGC took over.

 

[OmnipoTech]

FWIW, he wasn't necessarily talking about what we would've had for an option OL the next year, he was talking about how many actual OL had been recruited to GT, and how low their ratings were. At least 4 of those guys you mentioned were DEs or DTs in high school and rated as such by scouting services, and we recruited them to play OL for an option offense. They were even less suited to play OL in a traditional offense than the low-rated OLinemen we recruited and would have been rated as such were they rated as OL. People don't truly understand the deficit we had at OL when CGC took over.

Most if not all of those guys played on both sides of the ball in HS, calling them not real OL because a rating service thought they were better at defense is insincere at best. They were recruited to play OL here.

 

[GoGATech]

Most if not all of those guys played on both sides of the ball in HS, calling them not real OL because a rating service thought they were better at defense is insincere at best. They were recruited to play OL here.

I didn't say they weren't recruited to play OL here, but they wouldn't have been recruited to play OL anywhere else.

 

[OmnipoTech]

I didn't say they weren't recruited to play OL here, but they wouldn't have been recruited to play OL anywhere else.

That's debatable and I don't think anyone other than those players themselves knows whether that was the case or not.

 

[GTWannaBee]

That's debatable and I don't think anyone other than those players themselves knows whether that was the case or not.

You don’t think all of the coaches that scouted them might have had an idea of where they fit in at the college level?

 

[EagleSting]

Are there stats out there that show what the average W/L record is based on the recruiting rankings for current starters? Doesn't seem like it would be that hard to create, but that would be fun to play around with

 

[OmnipoTech]

You don’t think all of the coaches that scouted them might have had an idea of where they fit in at the college level?

You know the opinion of every single coach that was recruiting each of these players and what position they were interested in having them play? I didn't think so.

 

[1982Jacket]

Yeah we all know, a bunch of G5 / FCS level talent along the LOS to start a new offensive system with isn’t an excuse. According to people like you, that elite talent should have been plug & play. Do we even need to go over the WR / TE talent? I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t pretty.

Had the Portal been available starting in 2019, I don’t think a 4th 3 win season would be in the works. I’m definitely excited to see what successful P5 coach is going to leave to come to GT.

I asked a simple question. Care to answer it?

Once again you fail to acknowledge that we are also utilizing the transfer portal now for the last 2 years and not signing 20+ guys out of high school, which skews those stats. That wasn't around back in 16-17-18 when we were signing full classes that were still ranked that low. This is our average ranking per player in each class since 2016 along with how many of each class (and percentage) were rated lower than 5.5 (lowest 3* rating). Average rating has pretty much been the same for each of CGC's classes so far, and having such smaller classes those 1 or 2 lower rated guys weigh more to drop that average rating, so they all look pretty similar to me despite where they actually ended up in the final team ranking.

2016- 5.49 7/18 (38.9%)
2017- 5.55 5/24 (20.8%)
2018- 5.55 3/21 (14.3%)

2019- 5.57 3/21 (14.3%)
2020- 5.64 2/24 (8.3%)
2021- 5.63 2/16 (12.5%)
2022- 5.63 1/15 (6.7%)

Nice deflection.

I quoted a post about the national rankings of CPJ's classes and asked about CGC's 2021 class, in particular,. Now you come up with this bull öööö instead.

It was a simple question.

 

[GoGATech]

I asked a simple question. Care to answer it?


Nice deflection.

I quoted a post about the national rankings of CPJ's classes and asked about CGC's 2021 class, in particular,. Now you come up with this bull öööö instead.

It was a simple question.

It's not a deflection moron. The class rankings are calculated based on a "full" class of 20 players for one service, and each recruit is weighted differently for the other service, meaning smaller classes don't provide a true ranking or compare equally to larger classes. Maybe if you understood how the rankings actually work, you would know that for the last two years, they don't match up well with how schools actually recruited because so many schools took less than a full class to have room for tansfers. So your question about "what was his 2021 class rank" is disingenuous trying to throw shade that isn't really there.

 

[clapper]

Once again you fail to acknowledge that we are also utilizing the transfer portal now for the last 2 years...

The big problem with that argument is the players coming through the portal aren't what you think. The coach with the bowl haircut said they were using the portal to open roster spots for new recruits. We're on the receiving end of that.

 

[GoGATech]

The big problem with that argument is the players coming through the portal aren't what you think. The coach with the bowl haircut said they were using the portal to open roster spots for new recruits. We're on the receiving end of that.

My point has nothing to do with whether the players from the portal are good or not, it's more about the fact that taking so many portal players to fill gaps we have in our roster is not allowing us to take full recruiting classes and that makes our class ranking inaccurate. Folks just jump straight to the rankings and the numbers correlate like they should. Take 2021 for instance which 1982 asked about above, we are near 50 in both rivals and 247 rankings, but if you look at the average rating per player we are more like 30th or so.

 

[GTWannaBee]

The big problem with that argument is the players coming through the portal aren't what you think. The coach with the bowl haircut said they were using the portal to open roster spots for new recruits. We're on the receiving end of that.

I guess we’ll see in 4 days.

 

[QuadF]

Once again you fail to acknowledge that we are also utilizing the transfer portal now for the last 2 years and not signing 20+ guys out of high school, which skews those stats. That wasn't around back in 16-17-18 when we were signing full classes that were still ranked that low. This is our average ranking per player in each class since 2016 along with how many of each class (and percentage) were rated lower than 5.5 (lowest 3* rating). Average rating has pretty much been the same for each of CGC's classes so far, and having such smaller classes those 1 or 2 lower rated guys weigh more to drop that average rating, so they all look pretty similar to me despite where they actually ended up in the final team ranking.

2016- 5.49 7/18 (38.9%)
2017- 5.55 5/24 (20.8%)
2018- 5.55 3/21 (14.3%)

2019- 5.57 3/21 (14.3%)
2020- 5.64 2/24 (8.3%)
2021- 5.63 2/16 (12.5%)
2022- 5.63 1/15 (6.7%)

Fair points to be sure, but how do we gauge that accuracy of the recruit rankings? It's been previously observed (and i assume we still hold relative agreement) that there's a high degree of error once you're below high 4*. As some acc coaches think our recruits were overrated, it has me concerned about where the talent really is. Look how many of cpjs guys are projected starters even though the "cupboard is bare".

FWIW, he wasn't necessarily talking about what we would've had for an option OL the next year, he was talking about how many actual OL had been recruited to GT, and how low their ratings were. At least 4 of those guys you mentioned were DEs or DTs in high school and rated as such by scouting services, and we recruited them to play OL for an option offense. They were even less suited to play OL in a traditional offense than the low-rated OLinemen we recruited and would have been rated as such were they rated as OL. People don't truly understand the deficit we had at OL when CGC took over.

I think it's been pretty well known as that's been the main counter to people saying we need to ax Key. However, we've had some turnover at the OL position as well which just keeps us thin.

 

[clapper]

My point has nothing to do with whether the players from the portal are good or not, it's more about the fact that taking so many portal players to fill gaps we have in our roster is not allowing us to take full recruiting classes and that makes our class ranking inaccurate. Folks just jump straight to the rankings and the numbers correlate like they should. Take 2021 for instance which 1982 asked about above, we are near 50 in both rivals and 247 rankings, but if you look at the average rating per player we are more like 30th or so.

And my point was that other teams are using the portal to cull their roster to open spots for recruits, while we're filling gaps and closing roster spots to recruits. So, while the class ranking maybe inaccurate using present day calculations, the total number of recruits becomes the key indicator that there is a problem with recruiting.

I guess we’ll see in 4 days.

True, but I didn't mean to say that the players we receive in the portal are lesser than the ones being replaced. Only that the ones who come from schools with better reputations have often been 'encouraged' to enter the portal because they were losing the competition battles there.

 

[1982Jacket]

It's not a deflection moron. The class rankings are calculated based on a "full" class of 20 players for one service, and each recruit is weighted differently for the other service, meaning smaller classes don't provide a true ranking or compare equally to larger classes. Maybe if you understood how the rankings actually work, you would know that for the last two years, they don't match up well with how schools actually recruited because so many schools took less than a full class to have room for tansfers. So your question about "what was his 2021 class rank" is disingenuous trying to throw shade that isn't really there.

Maybe you should tell all that to FightOnJacket, since he is the one who initially used class rankings (actually, twisted the class rankings) to "prove" that CPJ left the cupboard bare for CGC and he is the one to whom I responded in kind with my post - NOT YOU, asshole.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

Struggling:

 

[GoGATech]

Maybe you should tell all that to FightOnJacket, since he is the one who initially used class rankings (actually, twisted the class rankings) to "prove" that CPJ left the cupboard bare for CGC and he is the one to whom I responded in kind with my post - NOT YOU, asshole.

Class rankings were accurate then... You are still totally missing the point. They arent nearly as accurate now... only in the last 2 years since the inception of the portal.

 

[Jacketzrus]

To anyone who still denies the lack of talent Collins started with, here is the reality.

2016 - #67
2017 - #48
2018 - #53

Yep. Those are some elite classes to start with. Looking at the OL only:

2016 - 2
2017 - 4
2018 - 2

So 8 total OL’s (5 2*’s) recruited to play option only football. Not exactly a stocked cupboard.

Starting with the 2021 season, this is all Key & Collins.

You're a dick head as the other guy pointed out.

How of CGC's recruits (transfers or not) made it to the NFL? How many of them stuck on a team this past draft? (I'll give you a hint, the cupboard wasn't so bare).

ööööing retard.